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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Some questions/issues coming from a new player

First post
Author
Memphis Baas
#21 - 2016-09-26 17:46:51 UTC
PVE fights are easy because:

- the AI is predictable and simple
- sites like EVE Survival will give you the step-by-step spoilers on how to win
- most missions do not have warp disruption, so you're free to warp away to recharge, and come back to shoot some more

So, fitting your ship to win against the NPC's is kinda like the newbie levels of learning how to do combat in EVE. Mostly, though, you're learning the user interface, not actual PVP tactics. Against players, the fights are over much faster, and the tactics use the full spectrum of max damage, electronic jamming, remote repairs, etc.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#22 - 2016-09-26 19:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Memphis Baas wrote:
PVE fights are easy because:

- the AI is predictable and simple
- sites like EVE Survival will give you the step-by-step spoilers on how to win
- most missions do not have warp disruption, so you're free to warp away to recharge, and come back to shoot some more



And NPC damage is heavily throttled.

I remember my first PvP fight. I was used to flying a Battlecruiser that would take out a room full of Battleships, Cruisers, and lots of frigates. I attacked two dudes in frigates thinking they would be cake....

I just about had a panic attack wondering how the heck they were eating through my armor so fast, I thought I had at least 20 minutes of tank...

I can only laugh at my naivete now.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#23 - 2016-09-27 06:07:40 UTC
Pretty good responses to various feedbacks here actually, so kudos to the OP. ;)

I think the best solution for everyone is to probably have many configurable possibilities, just like 'invert Y-Axis' type of things, being able to 'swap' right/left mouse clicks, various hot keys, etc, etc.

Having said that, when you look at the short cuts tab there are already many many options for you to configure the short cuts. Some functions you mentioned are not provided, and those probably could be something that CCP could look into, but it's also worth looking into different configurable options already available.

Also, 'tab through' targets is not as straight forward as it sounds - there are some elements that's deeply tied to the game mechanics. For example, people can configure overviews in so many ways (there are people who even sell their custom made overviews), that 'tab through' would offer completely different target selection function depending on how people have configured the overview, and in some ways, it could make it 'too convenient' in filtering out certain targets in the over view & selecting the desired target very quickly.

As much of a mess the overview and target selection can be, and sure the interface could be improved, but in a massive fleet battle with so many things happening everywhere with hundreds (or even thousands) of ships in varying distances, speed, ship types, etc, 'calling the right target' is a genuine FC skill, someone who has experience and ability to make sense of all that mess and call the right choice that swings the fight.


Not an example you mentioned, but let's say CCP made a new function that you could decide to 'orbit' in desired shape/axis/etc. That would be super handy for everyone and objectively would be a good interface option, but the way things are now and the way current orbit is kinda stupid at times is what makes 'manual piloting skill' something of an art.

I think OP takes the feedback from others well and all was said with good intentions to offer fresh perspectives to CCP, which is good as we all want to increase the new player retention.

But when you think outside of missioning/PVE, 'convenience' could be something not always desirable, considering that people with high experience (not SP, actual piloting experience) and skills are well rewarded in this game, so any interface/convenience balances have to be taken into consideration together with the PVP factors (just as everything else is in EVE heh). It's a lot more complicated issue than just making something more intuitive/convenient from interface perspective.






Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Nabu Nezzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-09-27 14:31:55 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
PVE fights are easy because:

- the AI is predictable and simple
- sites like EVE Survival will give you the step-by-step spoilers on how to win
- most missions do not have warp disruption, so you're free to warp away to recharge, and come back to shoot some more



And NPC damage is heavily throttled.

I remember my first PvP fight. I was used to flying a Battlecruiser that would take out a room full of Battleships, Cruisers, and lots of frigates. I attacked two dudes in frigates thinking they would be cake....

I just about had a panic attack wondering how the heck they were eating through my armor so fast, I thought I had at least 20 minutes of tank...

I can only laugh at my naivete now.

Heavily? I expected it to be throttled...but by that much? So it's as Memphis Baas said, in NPC fights you only really learn to use the battle UI and what options you have available.

At least we newbies can learn from your experience to avoid that happening to us ;)

Toobo wrote:
Pretty good responses to various feedbacks here actually, so kudos to the OP. ;)

I think the best solution for everyone is to probably have many configurable possibilities, just like 'invert Y-Axis' type of things, being able to 'swap' right/left mouse clicks, various hot keys, etc, etc.

Having said that, when you look at the short cuts tab there are already many many options for you to configure the short cuts. Some functions you mentioned are not provided, and those probably could be something that CCP could look into, but it's also worth looking into different configurable options already available.

Also, 'tab through' targets is not as straight forward as it sounds - there are some elements that's deeply tied to the game mechanics. For example, people can configure overviews in so many ways (there are people who even sell their custom made overviews), that 'tab through' would offer completely different target selection function depending on how people have configured the overview, and in some ways, it could make it 'too convenient' in filtering out certain targets in the over view & selecting the desired target very quickly.

As much of a mess the overview and target selection can be, and sure the interface could be improved, but in a massive fleet battle with so many things happening everywhere with hundreds (or even thousands) of ships in varying distances, speed, ship types, etc, 'calling the right target' is a genuine FC skill, someone who has experience and ability to make sense of all that mess and call the right choice that swings the fight.


Not an example you mentioned, but let's say CCP made a new function that you could decide to 'orbit' in desired shape/axis/etc. That would be super handy for everyone and objectively would be a good interface option, but the way things are now and the way current orbit is kinda stupid at times is what makes 'manual piloting skill' something of an art.

I think OP takes the feedback from others well and all was said with good intentions to offer fresh perspectives to CCP, which is good as we all want to increase the new player retention.

But when you think outside of missioning/PVE, 'convenience' could be something not always desirable, considering that people with high experience (not SP, actual piloting experience) and skills are well rewarded in this game, so any interface/convenience balances have to be taken into consideration together with the PVP factors (just as everything else is in EVE heh). It's a lot more complicated issue than just making something more intuitive/convenient from interface perspective.

Thank you. I do value every poster's time, so it's the least I can do (and it does help me too).

Completely agree with that. Being able to configure things is always good for the consumer. It can be a headache for the producer though (extra work, having to take compatibility into account etc).

Hm, that perspective makes sense. I only mentioned "distance" as a filter but if the filtering of ships is possible (I don't know) it would make battles easier and making something easier like that is not something I want, at all (for me it was more about selecting targets in the list via the keyboard instead of clicking on them with the mouse, with "tab-targeting" being a possible example (also because it's between "ctrl" for locking-on and the Fn keys for firing)).
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#25 - 2016-09-27 15:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Nabu Nezzar wrote:

Heavily? I expected it to be throttled...but by that much? So it's as Memphis Baas said, in NPC fights you only really learn to use the battle UI and what options you have available.

At least we newbies can learn from your experience to avoid that happening to us ;)


Oh yes, although now there are many more kinds of NPCs like sleepers that are both smarter and more dangerous.

But this is why a PVE fitted ship has no business fighting a PVP fitted ship. If my BC were PVP fitted, and equal skils, My BC should have won, or at least would have had a positive chance.

The biggest difference between a PvE ship vs PvP, is a PvE ship is fitted to tank and deal a large amount of damage distributed over a long amount of time. PVP ships will deal less damage, but apply it in a much shorter time frame. (burst or Alpha damage being king in PVP.) Which quickly overloads active tanks for the most part, especially if the tank were optimized for PvE.

A pvp ship can PvE, just not optimally. But a PvE ship should run away on principle.

That's why in null, you you are ratting in a BS and a hostile frigate shows up, you automatically dock up. Not only will you be a sitting duck to that frigate, but his friends are only a few second behind and if the frigate can land a point on you, your ship is toast.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#26 - 2016-09-29 11:12:29 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Deuce Syundai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-09-30 01:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Deuce Syundai
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Or you can use the overview. BTW, Unfuck your overview. and SaraShawa Overview pack are almost required reading.

Unfortunately, not only is the link to Unfucking Your Overview dead, but SaraShawa is all but dead as well. It hasn't been updated since April and Oh Takashawa doesn't seem to be coming back to the game any time soon. This one has taken up where SaraShawa left off, updating and making improvements on the old pack. Also, though slightly dated, I feel the EVE University Overview Guide is also an important resource.

Designer, co-maintainer of the Zirio-Syundai Overview.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#28 - 2016-10-01 02:22:33 UTC
Deuce Syundai wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Or you can use the overview. BTW, Unfuck your overview. and SaraShawa Overview pack are almost required reading.

Unfortunately, not only is the link to Unfucking Your Overview dead, but SaraShawa is all but dead as well. It hasn't been updated since April and Oh Takashawa doesn't seem to be coming back to the game any time soon. This one has taken up where SaraShawa left off, updating and making improvements on the old pack. Also, though slightly dated, I feel the EVE University Overview Guide is also an important resource.

the swear filter screws with the url for that page
http://bit.ly/1srvwnH <--- this one works perfectly fine though
and can be found here amongst feyds other excellent posts.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#29 - 2016-10-01 04:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Deuce Syundai wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Or you can use the overview. BTW, Unfuck your overview. and SaraShawa Overview pack are almost required reading.

Unfortunately, not only is the link to Unfucking Your Overview dead, but SaraShawa is all but dead as well. It hasn't been updated since April and Oh Takashawa doesn't seem to be coming back to the game any time soon. This one has taken up where SaraShawa left off, updating and making improvements on the old pack. Also, though slightly dated, I feel the EVE University Overview Guide is also an important resource.


Wierd, I tested both before posting, Thanks for the heads up, and Thanks to RKG for the quick fix.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

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