EVE General Discussion

Everyone says EVE is fun and challenging and so I wanted to try it 4 years ago, and it was fun but even then I realised something profound, EVE is immense. The sheer scoipe of how large it is is mind staggering. and therein lies the problem.
For someone coming into EVE as new there is very little "newbi zones" etc, it is more like your thrown into the pool of sharks and you got to fend for yourself and this is somewhat of a problem... Here are some questions and problems I have..,.

1. what skills to gain, some skills sounds cool and they SEEM to be something a person needs to gain and then its just rubbish, and since there (seems to be) is countless of skills and plans to get into in order to advance.... if a new person sat down and throught about the amount of planning and such it takes to get anywhere in EVE they would probably quit. That is not new player friendly. What to do about it? I got no clue what is possible to do. However I would say create a PvE environment where people can learn, guide them to a good way of learning skills augmentations etc so they have a better than rudementary idea of the skills when they go "out" into the "real" world.

2. "endgame" as in a new person coming into EVE can not see the end game but they need to be aware of what they should want at the end game so they do not get 10 skills over there,. 15 skills over there and it is con coherent, make the new person aware that they need to truly sit down and plan their gameplay.

3. make missions matter.... really yeah this... make missions matter, drive the "storyline" of some would call it onwards, there are NPC driven corps that can thrive with a npc driven "storyline" and by the time the gamer is tired of the npc based game, they are ready to assume their role in the "real world" and they understand missions and such much better than what I experience from the way it is presented to me.

4. understanding areas and such.... low sec, high sec, all that matters to a person and it would be good if in the tutorials it truly covers those parts because I seen new persons (I am a noob myself) go into low sec and endager their lives just to get past them to buy something from the marketplace at some remote place. make people understand, tutorial etc what it truly means.

5. make it understandable for the new persons. thats the key point right there. let the new person understand what it is really all about, and if a person is satisified with doing their PvE I think they should be given the oportunity to do so, but then the rewards would be limited to the boundaries of the PvE, if a person truly want to make a big buck, or make that big kill etc, then let them sign EVE version of the book of blood, signing that they understand that once they step outside, they are free to kill and anyone at any time can do so.

Make it a lot more user friendly because the amounbt of facts and figures and charts etc it is to be honest to much to grasp and rather than enjoy the game, I spend to much time worrying if I train the right thing at the right time and thats not enjoying the game at all.

Thank you for your time.

While the quoted comment is half-joking in nature... there is truth to it.

The skills and fittings needed to perform efficiently in PvE are not the same as those needed to efficiently perform in PvP.

The reason is simple:

PvP demands performance over all other considerations. There is a reason almost all PvP fits are not cap stable (most will last about 1 to 2 minutes with everything running). Fights are won and lost based on who can pump out the most damage and/or soak/avoid up the most damage in a short period of time.

PvE tends to be more of an endurance thing... demanding that players fit their ships more for tanking large amounts of damage and dealing a sufficient amount of damage over an extended period of time.


You can't make PvP more like PvE because of the N+1 issue (see: more players = more damage).
And if you make PvE more like PvP you will cause frightening wails from people who do not like stress or challenging content that will potentially blow them up even if they do everything right.

This is why newbros are encouraged to ask plenty of questions, watch youtube read forums, reddit, eveuniversity and google some more; ask in rookie chat join a corp ask in corp chat join public fleets die a lot die some more ask questions on comms make mistakes die again lose a big fat wad of cash grrr gons hop into a carrier and keep asking questions.

Getting blown up is basically how I, and many of my corpmates, learned.

There is a saying among many PvPers; you either have the attitude to make it work... or you will explode and quit like you would have in the first place.

The reasoning behind this is that a "true" PvPer will want to cause explosions for the sake of explosions. All other considerations are secondary.
Money is easy to earn if you can think outside of the box (see: not mining or running standard level 1-4 missions).
Moving stuff is easy when you have friends.
Keeping yourself safe is trivial when you have been blown up a few times and are taught by another player, "okay... this is what you did wrong."

A static system can barely teach you the basics behind a way of life that is, by its nature, dynamic and ever evolving.

A gatecamp used yesterday may not be the same gatecamp you run into today.
The fit you used against that ship may not work against that other ship in that configuration.
That fleet you scouted last week? Yeah... it can now reach out THAT far and nuke you today.


It is like driving a car. Someone can teach you the difference between a gas, brake, and/or clutch pedal... but how you learn to apply it properly on the streets can only come from actually DOING IT.
And no... drivers education is typically a joke. They teach you to stay to the right and avoid ****** situations... which is not always an option.

Basically... you have to WANT to "drive" in the first place.

Oh... they are welcome to. They simply have to understand that...

- they are subject the same rules (or lack of thereof) that everyone else is subject to... along with the same ships, weapons, skills, tactics, etc.

- they have no more right to ask for protection or "immunity" than I have to a guaranteed kill or economic safety. They have to apply just as much time and effort in learning/utilizing the mechanics of the game to protect themselves as I do in destroying them.

- an understanding that they are playing a game with many other people, with many other player styles, in a game designed to bring all those playstyles into conflict with one another.



You are right in the sense that EVE is like roller derby. And just like that game, once you enter the arena you are a target or an ally just like everyone else.

So step on the gas and make what you want happen!

This right here ^?

This is why it is 100% justified for people to smash your car as often as possible and rob you of as many of your assets as you leave vulnerable.

If you want to take over the universe - you have to expect the rest of the occupants to fight back...

If you can't deal with that - then you would have made a pretty crummy overlord anyway...

EVE is for people that look at all this complexity and get excited. Some skill paths are straightforward, others are not. It takes an enormous amount of research compared to other games to understand parts of the game, and that is by design.

I cannot tolerate games that not only hold my hand, but refuse to let go. It is simply not my preferred genre of gaming, and I'm glad EVE makes us figure everything out ourselves.

They are welcome to try, but signing up for this game is accepting the fact that you're entering yourself in a demolition derby. You either enjoy hunting, accept the fact that you will be hunted, or play a different game.

Why should you be able to fly the newest, shiny ships without risk of being hunted? The core concept of EVE is that it's an open world PvP game.

On PVE:

I think the 1v1 mission concept could be revisited. At least in 1v1, it isn't that difficult to programatically define how the normal user of a normal pvp fit responds to things. It wouldn't be a perfect replica of fighting a real player, but putting together meta pvp fit npcs with the capability to overheat stuff in specific situations doesn't seem that hard. Similarly, in small gang scenarios the decisions about who to target/where to move are usually pretty binary and obvious choices where the winners usually have a fleet comp advantage, or just capitalize on a mistake the users made.

They could try to have like "writing" and "plot" in missions that are more like standard PvE, as I think many players might rather enjoy a semi-regular stream of epic arcs, but for that to be a good idea from a financial standpoint they'd have to find a good way for it to fit alongside the rest of the economy. I can't see an EVE in which that could even work.

Problem with PvE in EVE is that the rewards can't really be paced well enough to have much "phat loot" because the isk/hour gained if far more important to EVE's economics than the chance for one shiny thing that you can blow up easily.

Lets say somehow they had the money and inclination to hire some kinda full time raid team that developed advanced AI, voiceovers, cutscenes, etc. for PvE space epics. Basically raids. Who the **** is going to bother losing ship after ship after ship to learn extremely difficult encounters on the off chance of maybe getting some sweet officer module? Simply having your epic loot increases the liklihood that someone just ganks you to get a shiny KM.

For EVE PVE to work at all it almost has to be a soulless grind for maximum isk/hour with the occasional possibility of some bling you can quickly sell. People won't engage in pve content that's difficult enough that they're consistantly losing expensive ships, because they need that ISK to replace ships lost to other players. The only real way walth can work in EVE is when it is distributed by abstract means. This limits you to basically fluff. Would people do some super hard raid for fluff items like SKINs? Well it seems to work okay for Guild Wars 2, but GW2 is all about zero effort in the first place so that logic doesn't really apply to EVE. I highly doubt more advanced PvE fits anywhere in the design space of how EVE is set up without making some serious changes to how EVE functions and removing a lot of player freedom in the process.

the game was made for pvp most of the content is actually pve so crossed wires there that's down to ccp should have pvp tutorial a large one.
would say without friends game does get kinda boring so I would say to you listen to the pros I have learned much from them and get in a corp they can help you wads .

friends is the key for game like this . just wish me mate come back