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Pilot Rating
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L DOPA
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#1 - 2016-09-21 05:58:10 UTC
Simple idea:

Next to each character portrait have an icon that changes from green through red based on total isk killed / number of pilots involved in the kill.

This way its easy to see without going to killboards how dangerous the pilot is.

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#2 - 2016-09-21 06:28:50 UTC
This could be a fun one. Eh, I'll let others have a go and instead sit back and watch.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2016-09-21 06:33:35 UTC
L DOPA wrote:
Simple idea:

Next to each character portrait have an icon that changes from green through red based on total isk killed / number of pilots involved in the kill.

This way its easy to see without going to killboards how dangerous the pilot is.

So, is a pilot killing 100B ISK exclusively in 50 man fleets more dangerous than a pilot killing 100B ISK all on his own? You are mixing 2 wildly different measures into 1 icon that can impossibly tell you how dangerous a pilot really is.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#4 - 2016-09-21 06:55:22 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
So, is a pilot killing 100B ISK exclusively in 50 man fleets more dangerous than a pilot killing 100B ISK all on his own? You are mixing 2 wildly different measures into 1 icon that can impossibly tell you how dangerous a pilot really is.

Not on its own, no.
But then again, which would you rather poke with a shiny stick? The guy who flies solo or the guy who likes to blob a lot, and who probably flies around in comms with a blob?

A signature :o
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2016-09-21 07:12:17 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
So, is a pilot killing 100B ISK exclusively in 50 man fleets more dangerous than a pilot killing 100B ISK all on his own? You are mixing 2 wildly different measures into 1 icon that can impossibly tell you how dangerous a pilot really is.

Not on its own, no.
But then again, which would you rather poke with a shiny stick? The guy who flies solo or the guy who likes to blob a lot, and who probably flies around in comms with a blob?

Neither, because the blob just outnumbers me and the solo-guy outsmarts me because they knows what they are doing. However, I wonder if the blobber would be red and the solo guy green because the blobber has High ISK Value + High Numbers, while the solo guy only has High ISK Value. That does not indicate at all that the solo guy is less dangerous than the blobber.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rias Bane
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-09-21 08:07:46 UTC
If I'm honest I don't think this would work, kills and or isk efficiency are by no means a measure of competency or a relevant threat assessment.

Suspect baiters for example would show as extremely dangerous in theory, based on the proposed mechanic it may have virtue given that the neutral reps they rely on may not show on a killmail (assuming they don;t agress, the same could be said for hi sec mercs that also use "Neutral" logi but tbh if they are in Merc alliances I don't imagine one needs a coloured bar to be understand the threat.

In the case of the much maligned "F1 Monkey" again they may look dangerous but in actuality be incompetent in smaller scale conflicts.

I think that you crave a way of recognising threats in game that I don't for one believe should be there because of the aforementioned intrinsic lack of accuracy of the results and because of character trading, which could give a skewed view of the pilot.

External killboards are the secret to this answer; Zkill (Others are available); for example permits you to assess their base stats and also their solo capabilities, you would also be afforded the ability to consider their fleet size to contribution ratio which combined with solo assessment is a more efficient means of a threat assessment.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2016-09-21 12:23:33 UTC
No
I simply do not want any system that gives away MORE free information on the capabilities of me or any other pilot.
Gun fighters in the old west did not wear clothing or signs that indicated how many they had killed, and those who did not recognize them from wanted poster and were foolish enough to challenge them ended up in a box, EvE needs to be the same way.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2016-09-21 12:32:16 UTC
At that point you should just make an in game killboard.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
L DOPA
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#9 - 2016-09-22 00:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: L DOPA
Rivr Luzade wrote:
L DOPA wrote:
Simple idea:

Next to each character portrait have an icon that changes from green through red based on total isk killed / number of pilots involved in the kill.

This way its easy to see without going to killboards how dangerous the pilot is.

So, is a pilot killing 100B ISK exclusively in 50 man fleets more dangerous than a pilot killing 100B ISK all on his own? You are mixing 2 wildly different measures into 1 icon that can impossibly tell you how dangerous a pilot really is.

If he's in local by himself and he only ever fights in 50 man fleets then I'm not going to worry too much about him. If he's got 100b kills and he's always in small gangs or solo then I'm going to really worry about him.

Rias Bane wrote:
If I'm honest I don't think this would work, kills and or isk efficiency are by no means a measure of competency or a relevant threat assessment.

Suspect baiters for example would show as extremely dangerous in theory, based on the proposed mechanic it may have virtue given that the neutral reps they rely on may not show on a killmail (assuming they don;t agress, the same could be said for hi sec mercs that also use "Neutral" logi but tbh if they are in Merc alliances I don't imagine one needs a coloured bar to be understand the threat.

In the case of the much maligned "F1 Monkey" again they may look dangerous but in actuality be incompetent in smaller scale conflicts.

I think that you crave a way of recognising threats in game that I don't for one believe should be there because of the aforementioned intrinsic lack of accuracy of the results and because of character trading, which could give a skewed view of the pilot.

External killboards are the secret to this answer; Zkill (Others are available); for example permits you to assess their base stats and also their solo capabilities, you would also be afforded the ability to consider their fleet size to contribution ratio which combined with solo assessment is a more efficient means of a threat assessment.

I think ISK efficiency is a good way of determining pilot skill.

Not crave a way. I can find out whether someone is dangerous just by going to their killboard and trawling through the kills but its time consuming. Its more a matter of simplifying the process.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2016-09-22 03:15:18 UTC
L DOPA wrote:
I think ISK efficiency is a good way of determining pilot skill.


Efficiency is one of the worst metrics to determine skill, especially in the age when there's 20b isk fortizars 'killed' by over 3000 people on a semi-regular basis now. You get skilled by taking risks and learning, which involves losing ships. You get efficiency by not taking risks at all.

Flying in all catalyst freighter gank fleets, and knowing nothing about the myriad of mechanics and styles out there, assuming only ever killing empty t1 freighters, would get you 99% efficiency. Hi Sec is a legitimate playstyle and nuanced, but the skills do not transfer over.

Shooting at every publicly announced citadel, likewise, will get a monster efficiency. If you win 50% of your fights and fleet size is 200 v 200, you will have a better efficiency than a 50% win rate of 10v10 or 15v15. As a metric, it favors people who play with larger groups, where points, flawed as they be as well, tend to favor smaller groups.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Rias Bane
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-09-22 14:09:08 UTC
L DOPA wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
L DOPA wrote:
Simple idea:

Next to each character portrait have an icon that changes from green through red based on total isk killed / number of pilots involved in the kill.

This way its easy to see without going to killboards how dangerous the pilot is.

So, is a pilot killing 100B ISK exclusively in 50 man fleets more dangerous than a pilot killing 100B ISK all on his own? You are mixing 2 wildly different measures into 1 icon that can impossibly tell you how dangerous a pilot really is.

If he's in local by himself and he only ever fights in 50 man fleets then I'm not going to worry too much about him. If he's got 100b kills and he's always in small gangs or solo then I'm going to really worry about him.

Rias Bane wrote:
If I'm honest I don't think this would work, kills and or isk efficiency are by no means a measure of competency or a relevant threat assessment.

Suspect baiters for example would show as extremely dangerous in theory, based on the proposed mechanic it may have virtue given that the neutral reps they rely on may not show on a killmail (assuming they don;t agress, the same could be said for hi sec mercs that also use "Neutral" logi but tbh if they are in Merc alliances I don't imagine one needs a coloured bar to be understand the threat.

In the case of the much maligned "F1 Monkey" again they may look dangerous but in actuality be incompetent in smaller scale conflicts.

I think that you crave a way of recognising threats in game that I don't for one believe should be there because of the aforementioned intrinsic lack of accuracy of the results and because of character trading, which could give a skewed view of the pilot.

External killboards are the secret to this answer; Zkill (Others are available); for example permits you to assess their base stats and also their solo capabilities, you would also be afforded the ability to consider their fleet size to contribution ratio which combined with solo assessment is a more efficient means of a threat assessment.

I think ISK efficiency is a good way of determining pilot skill.

Not crave a way. I can find out whether someone is dangerous just by going to their killboard and trawling through the kills but its time consuming. Its more a matter of simplifying the process.


Not a statement I would normally make, but you are wrong...categorically incorrect...isk efficiency is not an indicator of competency it is a fallacy, it will lie to you...I used to fly with a guy who was a miner when I was in Fatal Ascension, he wasn't much for PvP but one day he and I jumped on a Home Defense fleet, 90 minutes later he was on 13 Dreadnought kills and probably the same number of carriers, he was a 4 year old toon that over that period had massed maybe 300 kills and only ever lost condors and crows, on a single fleet he threw his Isk efficiency through the roof and all he did was point a ship and warp off grid before getting yellow boxed and then rinsed and repeated for 90 minutes...He and I went back to our home system in Fountain and in his fervor he announced he would take me on in a fight, winner gets a bil...He came out in a Harbinger, I put him to 5% structure before letting him go, I was in a taranis...He came out in a thorax which I destroyed with an enyo, for an hour he and I "Tested" his ships on the undock and every single time I would have killed him should I have chosen to...and all the while his isk efficiency was better than mine.

In the end I used the experience to educate him on the very point I am discussing with you, I am not pontificating for my own ego regardless of if that's how it may appear, trust me...ISK efficiency is not the key.

And your suggestion is not about simplifying the process it is about saving you work, check my killboard if you want...nothing spectacular but built on doing the work myself not expecting the game to do it for me...no offense intended.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-09-22 18:12:49 UTC
the icon could show the ship class a pilot has the most flight hours in.

Does not indicate skill, but it would show a freighter, a HAC, a frigate or a barge for example. (with one chevron for faction and two chevrons for tech II - why not LOL)

Just for pretty picture's sake.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-09-22 18:37:14 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
At that point you should just make an in game killboard.

I prefer this idea over the OP. Why isn't this a thing again?

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#14 - 2016-09-22 18:41:58 UTC
L DOPA wrote:
I think ISK efficiency is a good way of determining pilot skill.

Not crave a way. I can find out whether someone is dangerous just by going to their killboard and trawling through the kills but its time consuming. Its more a matter of simplifying the process.


ISK efficiency is a very poor way to determine skill. Some of the most skilled players take on overwhelming odds hoping they might win. People with 90% and higher ISK ratios are typically so risk averse they refuse to fight unless they know they can win. That's not skill at all. Someone ganking freighters, or blapping war targets who won't fight back have incredible ISK ratios, but they get there by doing a very low skilled activity.

All that being said, it sounds like you simply need to start using Pirate's Little Helper. It does what you're asking already.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#15 - 2016-09-22 18:45:37 UTC
I think it should be all encompassing. There should be modifiers for isk efficiency, kills/time (activity), solo or blobberer, forum posting panache, avg number of jumps/day, most systems visited, weight kills by sec status of system, put a mighty mouse modifier (taking down a HAC w/ a T1 frig would be better than carrier crunching a bestower). Let's dump everything into one glorious equation. That way we'll all be awesome, just for different reasons. CCP could hand out trophies each week for everyone that has a rating of 5 or better. We all deserve trophies, so this would be an excellent way to ensure we all get them.

I think subscriptions would go up if everyone got a trophy every day. Let's get this done!
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2016-09-22 19:08:21 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
We all deserve trophies, so this would be an excellent way to ensure we all get them.

I think subscriptions would go up if everyone got a trophy every day. Let's get this done!

Exquisite point you raise there. We're already getting too darn close with "achievement unlock - you plotted a course" or "congrats, you manually moved the camera, here's you 75000 ISK"
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-09-22 19:09:18 UTC
Soooo..... how about a gold icon with the number of level V certificates then? Lol
Lugh Crow-Slave
#18 - 2016-09-23 11:49:51 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Soooo..... how about a gold icon with the number of level V certificates then? Lol

oooooooh

can we get a platinum one with the number of categories we have maxed? (missiles gunnery engineering ect)

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-09-23 13:36:05 UTC
Sure bud. Want whipped cream on top? Cherry?
Redus Taw
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2016-09-24 03:35:21 UTC
What're you scared? You're shooting at somebody in a video game...
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