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Extorting Players In Highsec Space.

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TAYLOR HESTON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-09-19 06:31:18 UTC
So I was trotting along in my shuttle the other day minding my own business in Highsec space when I was blasted by this mob.

http://www.minerbumping.com/p/about.html

Apparently I didn't have a " permit " to mine this system, (that was kind of funny as I wasn't even mining just passing through ). Anyway since I haden't paid this extortion racket mob some isk they destroyed me. I have been playing on and off for years and I have run into this once or twice before but for new player just trying to start out in the game this is a terrible thing. I have been hearing lots the last year or so about EVE's player numbers dwindling and must say I have noticed it myself as there seem to be far fewer pilots in space these days. Anyway it didn't bother me as I only lost a shuttle and a few implants but this kind of action will only hasten the games demise as new players are being preyed upon by these thugs just as they are starting out.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2 - 2016-09-19 06:34:25 UTC
Just ignore them and don't give them the attention they seek.

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2016-09-19 06:44:54 UTC
EVE was growing at its fastest rate when ganking was a lot cheaper, easier to do and had fewer penalties. Ironically the high level of nerfs made to ganking over the years has resulted in more indiscriminate ganking simply because targeted ganks for profit vs miners is no longer possible. So we moved from gankers targeting idiots who made themselves profitable to gank to targeting everyone try try and get extortion money out of them.
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-09-19 06:52:58 UTC
While I do agree that we should ignore them in game, I don't think we as a community can continue to ignore the damage they are doing to the longevity of the game.

CCP generally has ignored such in game extortion rackets, and while it was single players or the occasional group doing this it wasn't such a big deal, but with it becoming more common practice of larger organizations, I do feel it is crossing a line and pushing players away from the game.

Of course those who only care about their own playstyle and or don't care about the longevity of this game will try to shoot down the whole idea that any player behavior can push players away from this game, or if it does, they don't deserve to be here.

Very close minded and selfish attitude.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2016-09-19 07:06:20 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
While I do agree that we should ignore them in game, I don't think we as a community can continue to ignore the damage they are doing to the longevity of the game.

CCP generally has ignored such in game extortion rackets, and while it was single players or the occasional group doing this it wasn't such a big deal, but with it becoming more common practice of larger organizations, I do feel it is crossing a line and pushing players away from the game.

Of course those who only care about their own playstyle and or don't care about the longevity of this game will try to shoot down the whole idea that any player behavior can push players away from this game, or if it does, they don't deserve to be here.

Very close minded and selfish attitude.



Ganking is at an all time low and falling
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-09-19 07:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: oiukhp Muvila
baltec1 wrote:
EVE was growing at its fastest rate when ganking was a lot cheaper, easier to do and had fewer penalties. Ironically the high level of nerfs made to ganking over the years has resulted in more indiscriminate ganking simply because targeted ganks for profit vs miners is no longer possible. So we moved from gankers targeting idiots who made themselves profitable to gank to targeting everyone try try and get extortion money out of them.



History revisionist at work. Yes, blame it all on CCP.

More like players acting like spoiled brats and crying because CCP decided emergent behavior was going beyond their design intentions so the players decided to punish anyone who didn't share their view on desired gameplay.

I was there and heard all the arguments and the plans to get back at those who dared to play Eve by different rules. Many were bored becase Null got stagnate so they went to Hi Sec to force the Carebears in their desired gameplay since they wouldn't come out to Null and play.

Those who are complaining about CCP making it harder for gankers only have themselves to blame, and the way things are going, CCP may even make it far more difficult, because the net effect has been a reduction in players overall.

You say that CCP's ganking nerfs have driven players away, that may be true to some extent, but...

I say that the gankers themselves have driven vastly more players away by their war against the Carebear playstyle.

And No, I'm not a Carebear, my main has a 96% dangerous on Zkill and have spent 80% of my 10 yrs in either Null Sec or Low Sec.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-09-19 07:18:25 UTC
Ahhhhhhh. Think of the children. The poor, poor children.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2016-09-19 07:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
EVE was growing at its fastest rate when ganking was a lot cheaper, easier to do and had fewer penalties. Ironically the high level of nerfs made to ganking over the years has resulted in more indiscriminate ganking simply because targeted ganks for profit vs miners is no longer possible. So we moved from gankers targeting idiots who made themselves profitable to gank to targeting everyone try try and get extortion money out of them.



History revisionist at work. Yes, blame it all on CCP.

More like players acting like spoiled brats and crying because CCP decided emergent behavior was going beyond their design intentions so the players decided to punish anyone who didn't share their view on desired gameplay.

I was there and heard all the arguments and the plans to get back at those who dared to play Eve by different rules. Many were bored becase Null got stagnate so they went to Hi Sec to force the Carebears in their desired gameplay since they wouldn't come out to Null and play.

Those who are complaining about CCP making it harder for gankers only have themselves to blame, and the way things are going, CCP may even make it far more difficult, because the net effect has been a reduction in players overall.

You say that CCP's ganking nerfs have driven players away, that may be true to some extent, but...

I say that the gankers themselves have driven vastly more players away by their war against the Carebear playstyle.

And No, I'm not a Carebear, my main has a 96% dangerous on Zkill and have spent 80% of my 10 yrs in either Null Sec or Low Sec.


If you take away a reason to target specific miners then all you have left is randomised attacks. The answer isn't to obliterate an entire playstyle, the answer is to undo the damage. Gankers would then have a reason to target specific miners and miners who fit and fly well are rewarded with higher levels of safety.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-09-19 07:39:59 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
I say that the gankers themselves have driven vastly more players away by their war against the Carebear playstyle.

And No, I'm not a Carebear, my main has a 96% dangerous on Zkill and have spent 80% of my 10 yrs in either Null Sec or Low Sec.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221

+96% dangerous is a good definition of risk averse, which has a close relationship to carebear.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-09-19 07:55:03 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
I say that the gankers themselves have driven vastly more players away by their war against the Carebear playstyle.

And No, I'm not a Carebear, my main has a 96% dangerous on Zkill and have spent 80% of my 10 yrs in either Null Sec or Low Sec.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221

+96% dangerous is a good definition of risk averse, which has a close relationship to carebear.



Its interesting how players complain about CCP not having a clue in regard to their own game, unless what is being said seems to support their own argument.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-09-19 07:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Its interesting how players complain about CCP not having a clue in regard to their own game, unless what is being said seems to support their own argument.

Really? Where have I ever said CCP don't have a clue? Go on. I'm sure you can quote it.

What's more interesting is people making claims that they've never even tried to validate and then dismissing CCPs attempts to validate those same claims because the outcome doesn't conform to their pre-determined view. It's all faith based. Not logic.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-09-19 08:10:34 UTC
OP is another shill alt to let em dump their stupid blog in a thread, pls no take bait guise, pls.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2016-09-19 08:21:10 UTC
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-09-19 08:32:49 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Its interesting how players complain about CCP not having a clue in regard to their own game, unless what is being said seems to support their own argument.

Really? Where have I ever said CCP don't have a clue? Go on. I'm sure you can quote it.

What's more interesting is people making claims that they've never even tried to validate and then dismissing CCPs attempts to validate those same claims because the outcome doesn't conform to their pre-determined view. It's all faith based. Not logic.


It would be interesting to know how many players have played this game for 6 months or less and quit over the years.
It would also be interesting what percentage of those CCP has had positive contact with to glean any information as to why they quit.

I suspect the first number is quite high and the second is quite low.

As far as the study CCP Rise talked about in your link I have not seen anything on how that study was done.

If CCP has not been successful in contacting a significant number of those who have quit over the years, then they can't really know why they didn't stick around.

Political Polls are hard enough to try and figure out. What CCP would be facing with this would be far worse.

But, I have read these forums quit a bit over the years, and talked to quite a few people in game and IRL regarding player retention, and it all fits.

But many are blinded by their own preconceptions and motivations, in-game and IRL.



I will concede the "right back at ya" reply, and no worries. I know where you are coming from.

We are all human after all. Blink
Black Pedro
Mine.
#15 - 2016-09-19 08:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
TAYLOR HESTON wrote:
So I was trotting along in my shuttle the other day minding my own business in Highsec space when I was blasted by this mob.

http://www.minerbumping.com/p/about.html

Apparently I didn't have a " permit " to mine this system, (that was kind of funny as I wasn't even mining just passing through ). Anyway since I haden't paid this extortion racket mob some isk they destroyed me. I have been playing on and off for years and I have run into this once or twice before but for new player just trying to start out in the game this is a terrible thing. I have been hearing lots the last year or so about EVE's player numbers dwindling and must say I have noticed it myself as there seem to be far fewer pilots in space these days. Anyway it didn't bother me as I only lost a shuttle and a few implants but this kind of action will only hasten the games demise as new players are being preyed upon by these thugs just as they are starting out.
Yes, yes, let's make it so even less interactions happen in highsec and the game even less interesting to 'save' some hypothetical new players who might grind a week or two longer before quitting out of boredom.

Actually, let's not. Highsec has never been safer. Eve grew the fastest when highsec was much more dangerous and the game less accessible to new players. Every study CCP has done has failed to find any evidence new players are negatively affect by PvP experiences. New players indeed have some challenges of getting into the game which could be improved by a better NPE, but getting a first-hand lesson of the 'Golden Rules of Eve' isn't one of them.

This player-created extortion racket is the very type of game play CCP wants to facilitate in their sandbox game. You can buy a permit and play along, choose to rebel and fight them, or If you don't want to play with them at all then just ignore them and go back to where ever it is you live. But it is content, and player content at that, and what this game is suppose to be about. The fundamental truth of the game is you are not suppose to feel, or be safe, even in highsec and this is a core tenet of the game. Bubble-wrapping new players from the core game serves no-one, and will just give a bigger niche for veteran players to avoid conflict.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-09-19 08:42:10 UTC
Good Morning Chaps and Ladies,

Miner bumping has been a thing since a lone capsuleer - James 315 - began bumping miners out of mining range for Isk, back in June 2012.

The ganking which now accompanies it has grown to become an instantly recognised feature of Highsec gameplay. Whether you like it or not, James' innovative method of organising the activity has firmly established itself in the panoply of Highsec shenanigans. We're not going away.

Do you not think that, if CCP could tie our activities to a measurable down-turn in their income, they'd squash us without compunction?

Stop whining; here, suck the nerf-dummy and count yourself lucky.

minerbumping

New Order Audio Archive

NEW! MinerBumping Video Vault
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-09-19 08:46:57 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
...Do you not think that, if CCP could tie our activities to a measurable down-turn in their income, they'd squash us without compunction?

.


I'd say that the final word on this has not yet been written.

Wait for it.....
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-09-19 08:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
But many are blinded by their own preconceptions and motivations, in-game and IRL.

You just concisely described your own opinion.

No consideration that you might be wrong, just complete conviction in the face of conflicting evidence, that everyone else with a different view is wrong.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Black Pedro
Mine.
#19 - 2016-09-19 09:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
...Do you not think that, if CCP could tie our activities to a measurable down-turn in their income, they'd squash us without compunction?

.


I'd say that the final word on this has not yet been written.

Wait for it.....


Wait for what?

CCP has time and time again confirmed that the intend for highsec to have risk, and for suicide ganking to exist for the emergent game play it enables.

The reality is that this is the type of game CCP set out to develop so many years ago regardless of what the various flavours of carebears think of that or want the game to be. CCP may nerf this and buff that, but non-consensual PvP will always be a feature of the game where it matters, and for a single-universe shared economy game, that is pretty much everywhere.

Play the game, or don't, but whining about the type game Eve is and begging CCP to fundamentally alter it so long after release is a waste of your time. Eve is not going to change for you.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2016-09-19 09:09:24 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
...Do you not think that, if CCP could tie our activities to a measurable down-turn in their income, they'd squash us without compunction?

.


I'd say that the final word on this has not yet been written.

Wait for it.....



Hi oiukhp, let's say (for the sake of argument) that CCP discovers to its horror (and surprise, after years of staring at the statistics) that Highsec ganking allied with 'extortion' is responsible for the exodus of hundreds/thousands of affronted players from EVE.

Their response might be to ban non-consensual PvP in Highsec, or they might cook-up some other solution. Is this the sort of thing you were savouring as a 'final word'?

Let me be clear. CCP reserves the right to make any changes to the game it deems necessary, including the right to modify or remove types of gameplay. James 315 and the New Order of Highsec have never been in any doubt about that.

However, whilst you are apparently content to 'wait for it....', I and my comrades are busy lighting up Highsec; playing the game, as it were.


minerbumping

New Order Audio Archive

NEW! MinerBumping Video Vault
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