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Remove the killmail API, seriously!

First post
Author
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-09-18 09:58:11 UTC
The question should be more: Does the killboard API have to be so explicit?

Do you REALLY need to know the fitting?
Do you REALLY need the cargo?
Do you REALLY need the name of the looser, in the killboard api that is, if you did it, you know him.

Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit.
"Look at this looser he":
had the wrong modules
too much cargo
shouldn't die in this ship
shouldn't have been there
been afk
etc.

time, Ship, system, Corp and the name of the winner, not the looser, should be enough.

If you want to talk about your losses you can always post your own killmail.

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#22 - 2016-09-18 10:28:45 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
...
Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit.
"Look at this looser he":
had the wrong modules
too much cargo
shouldn't die in this ship
shouldn't have been there



Many, many people use the internet to appease their egotistical need to point out where someone else is wrong. For a brief crystal shining moment the angst of the human condition is all heaped upon another as spectacle. Human sacrifice, bullfighting, combat bloodsports and the Eucharist all serve the same need.
This is not what killboards are for though and those threads are garbage.
I use killboard as an album of happy memories and as intel.
Leave em alone.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-09-18 10:35:21 UTC
Come join Goonies. We don't care about killboards. We don't even HAVE a killboard Cool

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2016-09-18 10:55:38 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Come join Goonies. We don't care about killboards. We don't even HAVE a killboard Cool


Back in my day the goon KB was the single most hated thing in the swarm.
The R00k
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-09-18 11:08:46 UTC
well i don't agree i think kill mails should be delayed by 24 hours and not show involved parties besides who dealt the final blow.

Why???
because I fly with 3 killboards ready to check potential targets for how they fight.
Major Xadi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2016-09-18 11:22:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The cowards who avoid PvP now are the same cowards that avoided PvP before killmails existed.


Aw, c'mon now. Surely CCP has retained the subscriptions of some new cowards by now. Smile

But kinda on topic, I'd like to see the losses to pve removed. For instance, my losses to burners show up, and I'm thinking the KB should only record action between players.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2016-09-18 11:38:27 UTC
Major Xadi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The cowards who avoid PvP now are the same cowards that avoided PvP before killmails existed.


Aw, c'mon now. Surely CCP has retained the subscriptions of some new cowards by now. Smile

But kinda on topic, I'd like to see the losses to pve removed. For instance, my losses to burners show up, and I'm thinking the KB should only record action between players.


It didn't record that Red Alliance nyx loss to anom ratsLol
Oliver Delorean
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2016-09-18 12:46:29 UTC
Iv been to goons, providence, spectre-fleet, mordus angels, now doing solo yolo, not belonging to any bigger group.... Iv played the game for 5-6 years now and all that time doing PvP.
What I see is that people don't want to have fights that involve risk.
Holding the kill till everyone is on the killmail, hold the pod - its everywhere! Why is that? Don't tell me its not cuz of people want to have that green line on the killboard.

Main issue is: People don't want to have that red line and this holds back many interesting engagements. Do you agree?

I think for CCP it would be smarter to find out the way where people find out the risk in the game itself, not letting people to use out of game tools (killboard) to find out the risk of the engagement.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#29 - 2016-09-18 15:09:47 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Do you REALLY need to know the fitting?
Do you REALLY need the cargo?
Do you REALLY need the name of the looser, in the killboard api that is, if you did it, you know him.

Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit.
"Look at this looser he":
had the wrong modules
too much cargo
shouldn't die in this ship
shouldn't have been there
been afk
etc.

Don't be a loser then.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-09-18 15:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Oliver Delorean wrote:


Main issue is: People don't want to have that red line and this holds back many interesting engagements. Do you agree?

I think for CCP it would be smarter to find out the way where people find out the risk in the game itself, not letting people to use out of game tools (killboard) to find out the risk of the engagement.


Do you really believe people are willing to lose a fight and feed you with easy kills just because there is no public record of their dump move?

On a personal note, I will always engage if I see a realistic chance of winning the fight, let's say 70%. Otherwise if I know I will lose, I will not engage, would be stupid otherwise.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-09-18 15:35:10 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Do you REALLY need to know the fitting?
Do you REALLY need the cargo?
Do you REALLY need the name of the looser, in the killboard api that is, if you did it, you know him.

Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit.
"Look at this looser he":
had the wrong modules
too much cargo
shouldn't die in this ship
shouldn't have been there
been afk
etc.

Don't be a loser then.

So you just pick the fights that you WILL win instead the fights you MIGHT win -> exactly what the OP said.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#32 - 2016-09-18 15:37:40 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Cara Forelli wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Do you REALLY need to know the fitting?
Do you REALLY need the cargo?
Do you REALLY need the name of the looser, in the killboard api that is, if you did it, you know him.

Take a look at all these killmail-shame-threads on reddit.
"Look at this looser he":
had the wrong modules
too much cargo
shouldn't die in this ship
shouldn't have been there
been afk
etc.

Don't be a loser then.

So you just pick the fights that you WILL win instead the fights you MIGHT win -> exactly what the OP said.

Nope. See most recent loss. I pick fights that are fun.

But I have the attitude of a winner, so I'm never a loser. Blink

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Oliver Delorean
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-09-18 15:37:57 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Oliver Delorean wrote:


Main issue is: People don't want to have that red line and this holds back many interesting engagements. Do you agree?

I think for CCP it would be smarter to find out the way where people find out the risk in the game itself, not letting people to use out of game tools (killboard) to find out the risk of the engagement.


Do you really believe people are willing to lose a fight and feed you with easy kills just because there is no public record of their dump move?

On a personal note, I will always engage if I see a realistic chance of winning the fight, let's say 70%. Otherwise if I know I will lose, I will not engage, would be stupid otherwise.


Look I have limited game time and I do take fights that I know I will most likely loose, otherwise I will fly around for hours before I find that one pilot with balls who's willing to take 50/50 chance.
Sky Marshal
Core Industry.
Blades of Grass
#34 - 2016-09-18 15:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
I do agree that killboards or any statistics in any game will hurt the said game in many ways if they are made public. Some players will be so focused on them that the ambiance in the game can become really terrible (Heroes of Newerth, etc.), some will cheat to satisfy their moro... I mean e-peen feeling (Counterstrike, etc.), many won't take any risks to get a bad history and so exclude themself from a large part of a game, etc.

The real problem is that if you don't take care of your stats, someone will take care of them for you. You could be a willing player who want to do pvp even solo, but you can be refused by a corp/guild because you tried by yourself and get bad marks...

In the case of EVE, I wonder if we would have more players who would leave high-sec systems and join null ones, if they had a way to hide their score. I was one of them but when API didn't exist, I knew I could just not post my lossmails so then sometimes I didn't post them, as I was reluctant to get bad marks. With time it didn't matter anymore and it become impossible anyway... but if I joined the game today, I wouldn't even think about going outside high-sec systems.

So I think that if a player has the option to anonymise his lossmails, we would probably get more fights and more players to do pvp, even for the sake of fighting a lost battle for fun. But everything should have a cost and so if you anonymise your losses, your name won't be in your killmails too. In all cases, the name of the corporation/alliance should remain as killboards are an interresting intelligence tool.

Yes, I know that I will never see that happen.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-09-18 16:56:42 UTC
the thing is:
What will change if your killboard that the corp can look up just shows your wins?

You don't have any -> no pvp corp for you
You have some wins but more looses (which the corp doesn't see)-> you can get into a PvP corp but maybe no l33t corp
You have lots of wins and only minor losses -> l33t corp for you
You have lots of wins and considerable losses because you are willing to take risks -> you can still get into a l33t corp

In the end most losses don't hurt vets in any way, they've got the money for replacement but the hit on the killboard hurts much more so they don't pick tight fight to look as a superior fighter. The problem is: if they take risks they are still superior fighters but they will fall behind risk averse players on the killboard.

IMHO CCP should look up the API information anyway:
email should get out -> I really don't like the Orwell like scrutiny of the private e-mails. Thankfully E-Uni doesn't.
market info should get out -> it's really bad that sides like central can extract more infos from the game as the ingame price check. Either make the ingame pricecheck galaxy wide or take the api infos out.
Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#36 - 2016-09-18 17:14:58 UTC
Going with what someone else said killboards aren't just about keeping it green or red, its about the story and legacy of the pilot.
Anytime i link the killmail where our Black Ops pilot shot someone who he thought was in corp (Wasn't) and got CONCORDED while i was the sole person in the fleet who thought to get on the kill our comms go from talking to howling laughter, given this killmail is years old now but still.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Big Lynx
#37 - 2016-09-18 18:23:13 UTC
Killboards are like Bikinis. They show a lot but no the most important things...
Darth Terona
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2016-09-18 19:46:00 UTC
Op. Consider changing what you fly solo

Things like Vagabonds and cyclones attract a lot of heat.
Which means you will be fighting blobs a lot. Good news for you though, those ships are good at fighting blobs.
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
#39 - 2016-09-18 20:21:57 UTC
Oliver Delorean wrote:
Look I have limited game time and I do take fights that I know I will most likely loose, otherwise I will fly around for hours before I find that one pilot with balls who's willing to take 50/50 chance.


So all this is is just a "waah, people play differently from me" which makes it no different from any carebear who creates a whine thread about being killed and how "unfair" that is.

And again, you fly a Svipul. Clearly you're not interested in 50/50 chance fights.
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-09-18 21:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: oiukhp Muvila
Oliver Delorean wrote:
Killboards need to go!

Why?
It seriously hurts the game! People don't look for interesting fights anymore...
95% of the pvp is based on the "green killboard"
Hold the pod!!
What type of sh++t is this?

Seriously! Get rid of all that: Look at my green killboard mentality and the game will be a lot better once again.



Its probably is the biggest single problem in the game. KMs have been the source of some of the worst gameplay around.

It really seems that Eve Pvp has really become "KM grind Online" at times.