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Why do people assume how we play the game reflects us in real life?

First post
Author
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#521 - 2016-09-16 21:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Armer
Bing Bangboom wrote:
I think what you are seeing is wardeccers and ganking organizations responding to the changes that CCP has instituted. My experience leads me to believe that what you are describing is a refinement of ability to perform our mission. We got better and better at what we do, nullifying any efforts to thwart us but still, as a reaction to those efforts. This is opposed to your comments which indicate that we found an easy way to play Eve and are stuck in our no-risk ways.

In other words it probably does look easy to someone on the receiving end. Putting aside the Code always wins (which those guys do but I famously don't) what you are seeing is a well organized, well funded and well motivated group working together to achieve a goal against players who habitually reject making any effort beyond their own self interest. Saying we only want to kill new players as they are easy targets overlooks the fact that many highsec players, particularly miners, remain easy targets even after years of game play, by choice, as they don't tank, don't respond to stimulus and don't accept reality when it lands 2000m away from their barge and lights them up with Void.

Look at our killboard. We've poured over a trillion ISK into our gank ships. The fact that we have destroyed almost 36 trillion ISK of ships and pods, IN FURTHERING OUR CAUSE, isn't because its easy. Its because we are good at it. Good at inspiring people to follow James, good at performing the tasks of bumping, ganking, awoxing, wardeccing, etc and good at raising the funds such an ambitious goal requires. And yes, good at coming onto the various forums including our own and spreading the word of what we believe in and fight for.

The really great thing of course is that the New Order always wins. Even fellows like you who come on and present your neat package of "risk-adverse noob killers who are ruining Eve and CCP will get rid of you someday" have not slowed us down one bit in four years and we both know it. Every confident prediction of our eminent demise has been met with an increase in miner and freighter destruction.

Nobody knows how far we can go. Well, except James 315 as he has had this all planned out from the start.


Can you re-write that without the cringeworthy role playing? It got old two years ago.
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#522 - 2016-09-16 21:28:26 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Bing Bangboom wrote:
I think what you are seeing is wardeccers and ganking organizations responding to the changes that CCP has instituted. My experience leads me to believe that what you are describing is a refinement of ability to perform our mission. We got better and better at what we do, nullifying any efforts to thwart us but still, as a reaction to those efforts. This is opposed to your comments which indicate that we found an easy way to play Eve and are stuck in our no-risk ways.

In other words it probably does look easy to someone on the receiving end. Putting aside the Code always wins (which those guys do but I famously don't) what you are seeing is a well organized, well funded and well motivated group working together to achieve a goal against players who habitually reject making any effort beyond their own self interest. Saying we only want to kill new players as they are easy targets overlooks the fact that many highsec players, particularly miners, remain easy targets even after years of game play, by choice, as they don't tank, don't respond to stimulus and don't accept reality when it lands 2000m away from their barge and lights them up with Void.

Look at our killboard. We've poured over a trillion ISK into our gank ships. The fact that we have destroyed almost 36 trillion ISK of ships and pods, IN FURTHERING OUR CAUSE, isn't because its easy. Its because we are good at it. Good at inspiring people to follow James, good at performing the tasks of bumping, ganking, awoxing, wardeccing, etc and good at raising the funds such an ambitious goal requires. And yes, good at coming onto the various forums including our own and spreading the word of what we believe in and fight for.

The really great thing of course is that the New Order always wins. Even fellows like you who come on and present your neat package of "risk-adverse noob killers who are ruining Eve and CCP will get rid of you someday" have not slowed us down one bit in four years and we both know it. Every confident prediction of our eminent demise has been met with an increase in miner and freighter destruction.

Nobody knows how far we can go. Well, except James 315 as he has had this all planned out from the start.


Can you re-write that without the cringeworthy role playing? It got old two years ago.


I thought that WAS without the role playing.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#523 - 2016-09-16 21:45:03 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
"risk-adverse noob killers who are ruining Eve and CCP will get rid of you someday"


Lol, sums up Lucas' narrative perfectly.

Someday... someday...
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#524 - 2016-09-16 22:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Armer
Bing Bangboom wrote:
I thought that WAS without the role playing.


OK, I'll take the bait and pretend you're not messing with me (that WAS some of the most painful role-played rhetoric I've read in a while). Everyone knows the HS miners/bears that code hunts as well as gankers themselves are two sides of the same coin, equally risk averse. The only difference is your side is more organized.

Nothing wrong with that, this is a sandbox, play how you like.

Look, assuming code isn't just the extortion scheme it looks like at first glance, I understand trying to make the game dangerous again, but that's a bit misguided. If you want to make it dangerous to new players, push them to LS, NS, WHs. Why stay in HS when there are a LOT of places to go where it's dangerous (you personally as a ganker, or the miner?). I personally do a lot of solo PvE in LS and WHs. Why aren't you hunting me?

If anything CCP should cut the number of HS systems in half. The idea of HS in and of itself goes against the core idea of this game.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#525 - 2016-09-16 23:33:30 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
I think what you are seeing is wardeccers and ganking organizations responding to the changes that CCP has instituted. My experience leads me to believe that what you are describing is a refinement of ability to perform our mission. We got better and better at what we do, nullifying any efforts to thwart us but still, as a reaction to those efforts. This is opposed to your comments which indicate that we found an easy way to play Eve and are stuck in our no-risk ways.
Yeah it's absolutely through refinement, but it's still refinement at picking the easiest targets and playing the most low risk way, which is why CCP are rightly taking steps to balance it. Balance always incorporates how people adapt to the systems as well as the systems themselves.

Bing Bangboom wrote:
In other words it probably does look easy to someone on the receiving end.
Well no, it looks easy because it is easy. The mechanics have been refined and now you just need to pick up the already worked out methods and implement them. Just like how drone assist was not an issue until it was refined and used by a bunch of people who barely knew how to pilot their ships.

Bing Bangboom wrote:
Look at our killboard. We've poured over a trillion ISK into our gank ships. The fact that we have destroyed almost 36 trillion ISK of ships and pods, IN FURTHERING OUR CAUSE, isn't because its easy.
It absolutely is. There's absolutely no way you could pull off the same level of kills against tough opponents, you can only do it because you pick super easy targets and farm lots of them.

Bing Bangboom wrote:
The really great thing of course is that the New Order always wins. Even fellows like you who come on and present your neat package of "risk-adverse noob killers who are ruining Eve and CCP will get rid of you someday" have not slowed us down one bit in four years and we both know it. Every confident prediction of our eminent demise has been met with an increase in miner and freighter destruction.
Sure, and when you don't you just change your methods of measurement and carry on. CODE was set up to fight back against buffs to mining because James didn't like them and yet we're getting mining boosts and bumping nerfs. Sure, you guys have an awful lot of alts and ensure you post a lot so you look super duper popular but the reality is that most of the people who have been semi afk mining still semi afk mine. Hell I'm mining now with a code bumper desperately trying to get me to respond.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#526 - 2016-09-17 00:01:11 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I think we found a common ground here. People who play "bad people" in game are "bad people" IRL, while people who play like idiots (carebears) are idiots IRL. I think we can live with that. Anyway, the take away message here is clearly that you should probably purchase a mining permit and follow the Code anyway because no amount of whining will remedy your situation.

/thread

The difference being that someone being bad at the game doesn't necessarily make them bad at everything in life. I suck at playing certain games. But I'm considered to be a pretty decent engineer. Being a **** on any scale or venue makes you a ****, period. But it's good to see that on your stumbling way down in this argument you have at least acknowledged what the rest of us have known like, forever.
Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2016-09-17 01:14:54 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I think we found a common ground here. People who play "bad people" in game are "bad people" IRL, while people who play like idiots (carebears) are idiots IRL. I think we can live with that. Anyway, the take away message here is clearly that you should probably purchase a mining permit and follow the Code anyway because no amount of whining will remedy your situation.

/thread


This needs a ... meme...

https://imgflip.com/i/1arb9d

And which corp is Good Guy Greg in ?
Elite Harvester
Elite Harvesters
#528 - 2016-09-17 02:06:01 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
If you want to make it dangerous to new players, push them to LS, NS, WHs.

We do.

It is our recommendation that if they do not wish to be Code compliant and do not wish to be hunted by us that they go to lowsec, nullsec, wormholes, etc.
Isaac Armer wrote:
Why stay in HS when there are a LOT of places to go where it's dangerous (you personally as a ganker, or the miner?).

Our goal is to bring danger to Highsec for all to enjoy. It's pretty hard to accomplish that goal when you're not actually in Highsec. Blink
Isaac Armer wrote:
Low sec, null sec and wormholes I personally do a lot of solo PvE in LS and WHs. Why aren't you hunting me?

Low sec, null sec and wormholes are self-cleansing. If you fall asleep at the keyboard there the situation usually resolves itself. Without gankers the only thing you have to fear in Highsec are NPCs that struggle to kill poorly fit frigates.
Isaac Armer wrote:

If anything CCP should cut the number of HS systems in half.

Sounds like fun. More people crowded together competing for "safe" resources. Like a powder keg ready to explode. Big smile

Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how you can help save Highsec.

Caidin
Kiosk Cartel
Fraternity.
#529 - 2016-09-17 02:44:22 UTC
Lacori wrote:
I was banned for being a content creator, and displaying emergent gameplay in GTA 5 Online. Not once was abusive to other members in chat, I merely played the game as I saw fit, and under the terms of the EULA. However, as can be seen, the majority voice is catered to, so I was banned.


Don't think of it as being banned. You were effectively an unpaid developer and had to be fired for continually creating crap content.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#530 - 2016-09-17 03:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Eve so weird.
-In GD, everybody has lots more erudite opinions to discuss than the current two American presidential candidates. (Negative vibes).

-If I get on voice comms, we might sit there all night while an FC talks about what wedding present to buy for somebody none of us know. And we're happy to sit on our thumbs for hours hearing about that and doing fleet socializing. (Amazingly tolerant positive vibes).

-I can join a huge corp (Pandemic Horde, TEST, whatever), and sometimes everybody is trying to snake ISK away from each other. (Nasty greedy internal negative vibes).

-I can join a huge corp (Pandemic Horde, TEST, whatever), and sometimes we have drunk fleet, which is a docked fleet of 100 people laughing their asses off and playing AC/DC songs, and singing along. (Positive vibes).

-If Nepal gets hit by an earthquake, or it's Fanfest time, everybody bands together and does amazing good things. (Amazingly positive).

-If it's GD, it's GD. (Permanently negative, according to the established rules).

We are a pretty funked up hard to understand culture, I'd say. A sociolgist's or anthropologist's nightmare. It doesn't fit into any previous in-group/out-group pattern. Simultaneously pricks to everybody in the in-group, but also when the tribe gathers, it's all Rainbow Gathering/Jah love. "i'm a prick when I'm logged in, but only then, it's what I do during my hobby time."
Further study is needed. Or not. Smile
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#531 - 2016-09-17 03:35:22 UTC
Elite Harvester wrote:

Our goal is to bring danger to Highsec for all to enjoy.


Now, that reason (for CODE and suicide ganking in general) sounds much better to me. :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#532 - 2016-09-17 03:58:01 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well no, it looks easy because it is easy.


If their"victims" put in even half the effort gankers put in then they would never be ganked.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#533 - 2016-09-17 05:10:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Lucas Kell wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
We aren't here to play world of tanks. We aren't here to play a game with a matchmaker. We are here for the PvP and the sandbox.
Machmakers aren't a necessity for balance, also, when you say PvP, do you mean in the broader sense of competition or do you think this game solely exists to allow people to shoot each other?

Teckos Pech wrote:
As for ganks, you have nothing to support your claim. And before you say neither do I, I already admitted that.
I have common sense on my side. It's provable that most ships ganked in highsec are pilotable by 8 day old players, that new players tart and generally stay for a time in highsec, and it's also a given that experienced players know how to avoid ganks, ergo the most likely players to be ganked in highsec are newbies.

Teckos Pech wrote:
And lastly a company and developers being honest and fair with their customers is usually a better business plan that the opposite. Of course they are fee to be misleading and unfair, but that can back fire.
You know that thing you were saying about proof... Lol. Let's face it, Rockstar are rolling around in money, the tears from a bunch of griefers being banned is far outweighed by the millions of people handing over fistfuls of money for the game. If they were misleading the important part of their playerbase it would be a problem, but they aren't.

Teckos Pech wrote:
Edit: As for reward, you keep forgetting that it takes both sides to create that reward. The veterans with their alts and cheap ships and the moron who put 8 billion ISK worth of cargo in his ship and flew it, without an escort/scout, through Uedama.
But that's still not risk/reward. The gankers risk basically nothing and get rewarded. There's no need to take a risk because rewards are so easily collected. It's like wardec groups, nothing actually encourages wardec groups to take fair fights because they'll lose isk and not gain much out of it, so they farm hundreds of small corps that they know can't fight back and reap the rewards. I'm certainly not saying the idiot in the freighter shouldn't lose it to the opportunistic pirates, but ganking has been refined to the point that there's no challenge in it.


This game exists for players to compete against one another in a variety of ways. That much is well understood. Further it is a sandbox, so this notion of "balanced and fair competition" when it comes to player actions is not really relevant. We are not here for some sort of Marquess of Queensberry Rules to this competition.

And you have literally no data. Yes, ships that are capable of being flown by 8 day old pilots die all the time, how well that correlates to the age of the player is completely missing. For example, how many are cyno ships? How many are people in shuttles? What about the fitting? Sure might be a T1 frig...with a complete T2 fitting? You have nothing here.

As for firms and honesty try google. Firms play plenty to protect, enhance and repair their reputations.

As for ganking yes, that is exactly risk/reward. The problem is one of the parties was completely an totally foolish and imprudent. He took a significant risk with with substantial downside losses for a pathetic reward. And the other party came along and imposed that downside on him. The freighter pilot...I have no sympathy for. None. He should have known better.

And yes, the gankers have minimized their risk, good on them! That is called being smart and prudent. There is literally nothing wrong with that.

Further, if we are going to go with this in game behavior is indicative of IRL behavior nonsense, those freighter tards...maybe they should be thanking CODE. and other freighter ganking groups for teaching them the dangers of being foolish and imprudent. Of course, most people learn the concept of "don't put all your eggs in one basket" when they are about....9 or 10.

And the gankers collect the rewards because the other side is taking on so much risk. The other side is almost handing it to them.

Seriously every anti-ganking poster here only looks at one side. You completely ignore the excessive risk the other party is taking. If you take excessive risk in this game you should not be surprised or upset when that risk comes in on the downside.

In fact, if we were to just go by behavior we'd have to conclude those being ganked have literally nothing to complain about. Their behavior is entirely and 100% in accord with RISK SEEKING behavior. They sought it, they got it....what do they have to complain about? Nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#534 - 2016-09-17 05:15:46 UTC
Public Service Announcement:

Please, it is "risk averse".

Thank you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#535 - 2016-09-17 05:19:17 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Bing Bangboom wrote:
I thought that WAS without the role playing.


OK, I'll take the bait and pretend you're not messing with me (that WAS some of the most painful role-played rhetoric I've read in a while). Everyone knows the HS miners/bears that code hunts as well as gankers themselves are two sides of the same coin, equally risk averse. The only difference is your side is more organized.

Nothing wrong with that, this is a sandbox, play how you like.

Look, assuming code isn't just the extortion scheme it looks like at first glance, I understand trying to make the game dangerous again, but that's a bit misguided. If you want to make it dangerous to new players, push them to LS, NS, WHs. Why stay in HS when there are a LOT of places to go where it's dangerous (you personally as a ganker, or the miner?). I personally do a lot of solo PvE in LS and WHs. Why aren't you hunting me?

If anything CCP should cut the number of HS systems in half. The idea of HS in and of itself goes against the core idea of this game.


Actually no.

The players behind the freighters that get ganked....if they are not foolish and imprudent and ignorant....then they are risk seeking and have literally nothing to complain about.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#536 - 2016-09-17 05:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Lucas Kell wrote:
Bing Bangboom wrote:
I think what you are seeing is wardeccers and ganking organizations responding to the changes that CCP has instituted. My experience leads me to believe that what you are describing is a refinement of ability to perform our mission. We got better and better at what we do, nullifying any efforts to thwart us but still, as a reaction to those efforts. This is opposed to your comments which indicate that we found an easy way to play Eve and are stuck in our no-risk ways.
Yeah it's absolutely through refinement, but it's still refinement at picking the easiest targets and playing the most low risk way, which is why CCP are rightly taking steps to balance it. Balance always incorporates how people adapt to the systems as well as the systems themselves.


CCP would be wrong to do this. What CCP is doing is removing the sandbox nature and the basic tenant of the game that you are safe nowhere....and this should be especially true if you are going to put 6 billion ISK in your freighter and undock it without so much as even a scout.

Players who have titans do not jump their titans around willy nilly...or if they do and get killed everyone laughs at them for taking such excessive risks.

Maybe CCP should do something to make it so people can jump titans around willy nilly...because the people that kill them take such little risk.

No, this argument is completely wrong.

If CCP is going to do more about freighter ganking CCP is completely wrong (big shock there).

Players can handle this and in the spirit of the sandbox nature of the game, CCP needs to back off this one.

And the only thing unbalanced here are those who are arguing against freighter ganking by only looking at one side in a gank. Over loading your freighter is always a dumb move. Stop rewarding dumb.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Xzar Fyrarr
Anime Masters
#537 - 2016-09-17 05:34:35 UTC
Have been playing the game for (almost) a decade now.
Have gone through many changes in my game-play style - all of which were a direct reflection of my life.
22 years of age now --> started playing this game when I was 12.
Very vividly remember writing a very angry email to the person who blew up my first ship explaining how I worked hard for it, how dare he ruin my hard earned investment, yadda, yadda, nag, nag, boopity bop. Such a thing one would expect a 12 year old to do, or not.
Sometime around whatever age I was - my mom had died. At this point in EvE, I joined Suddenly Ninjas, TEARS, and began ganking mission runners and doing everything I can to make their gameplay horrible as it did in fact bring joy to me. Scamming players, stealing from mission runners, stealing from people running sites, In High sec, all were things I loved doing. I fully am aware, now, that I was doing this as I was hurting in real life and I wanted to hurt the other In-Game player...but as well as hurt another human in a way that was Really Insignificant by all accounts (to me at least. I do not know how much emotionally invest me people put into their ships anymore.) Why? I just wanted to ruin other people's game experience.

Now, at the ripe Sage-Age of 22, I have adopted the RP role of playing as an agent for the Guristas. Cheesy? Perhaps. Adds Content for me? Hell yes. When I am hunting other players running anomallies it is fun, for me. Can't say I care if it is fun for the other player. However, with that being said, if I do engage a player say, 2 months old, in lowsec, I make a concious decision if I'm going to let that ship go, or blow it up AND THEN give said player enough money to replace that ship at least 4 times. I know how demoralizing it was for me to get my first ship blown up without having a clue as to what happened so that is my way of "paying it forward" I suppose. Assumptions that other people do not have emotional attachments to their ships and will be willing to haphazardly welp ships in the way that I do now - I do not assume such things.

In Real Life, if we are separating EvE from Real Life, I am rather charismatic, positive, and try to help my friends whenever if ever I can. Crack many the jokes, perhaps too laid back and / or (insert Negative connotation of "laid back" here)

Is my game-play style very similar to that now? Aside from me mispelling the first half of my in-game name, and my Role-Playing loyalty to the Guristas Rabbits, Yup.
I give out money haphazardly, I welp ships constantly, take fights I know I can't win for the sake of entertainment value (I would be quite the entertaining streamer if I had the software to do so), probably am overly bubbly in Local, 0.0, Lowsec, Highsec, doesn't matter. Just as friendly to alliances I have marked Red as I am to individuals I have marked Blue. (This is a game afterall, at least how I see it. I may personally have Circle-Of-Two, Pandemic Legion, Did He Say Jump, Local is Primary, whatever, marked red, but I am just as friendly to them as I would be to some personal friends in game. Regardless of if they kill me constantly. All in good fun and the nature of the game.

Do I think how one acts in-game is necessarily a reflection of their Real Life mannerisms? Meh. For some it may be. I don't spend much time thinking of if ti is or isn't. I do spend some effort wondering how individuals have Fun doing various activities in game. Some things just mesmerize me. I will never understand the fun in gatecamping, station camping(lowsec, highsec, 0.0), flying a linked pirate ship in lowsec, etc. Some things I am sure have some appeal to some players, just have not even the faintest appeal to me in how they can be fun at all.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#538 - 2016-09-17 09:05:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
If their"victims" put in even half the effort gankers put in then they would never be ganked.
Sure, but being that most of them are newbies and rookies, they don't. And if they did, code would still pick the easiest targets. I'm of the opinion that the game should encourage veterans to take a challenge not encourage them to go for easy marks.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#539 - 2016-09-17 09:15:59 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I think we found a common ground here. People who play "bad people" in game are "bad people" IRL, while people who play like idiots (carebears) are idiots IRL. I think we can live with that. Anyway, the take away message here is clearly that you should probably purchase a mining permit and follow the Code anyway because no amount of whining will remedy your situation.

/thread

The difference being that someone being bad at the game doesn't necessarily make them bad at everything in life. I suck at playing certain games. But I'm considered to be a pretty decent engineer. Being a **** on any scale or venue makes you a ****, period. But it's good to see that on your stumbling way down in this argument you have at least acknowledged what the rest of us have known like, forever.

Does a fool knows he's a fool?
Lacori
Doomheim
#540 - 2016-09-17 09:17:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
If their"victims" put in even half the effort gankers put in then they would never be ganked.
Sure, but being that most of them are newbies and rookies, they don't. And if they did, code would still pick the easiest targets. I'm of the opinion that the game should encourage veterans to take a challenge not encourage them to go for easy marks.


But veterans do. What about veterans in sov alliances?

You contradict yourself. You keep saying 'it's a sandbox, we should be able to play how we like'. These people killing new players in high sec are playing the game their way, their victims are playing it their way, you are playing it your way, etc. I don't understand your point.

There are safe areas for new players, in their starter systems where CCP will take action if anyone tries to hurt them. Whilst they're there, they can fly tutorial missions, learn about the game, meet friends in their starter corp, fleet up with them, try out missions and mining, and then maybe read some third party information sites about the nuances of the game.

But that doesn't seem to be enough for you. You want 0.5 systems to be the same as those starter systems, thereby forcing pirates who operate in those areas to change the way they play the game.