EVE General Discussion

I've seen this countless times, and I've been playing for over a decade...

Which is probably why I draw the line at certain activities, even though I condone those activities by others who chose to do them. Case in point, scamming your own corp or being a long-term spy, and by that I mean not a couple of weeks here and there. I mean actually going to the trouble of befriending the people you intend to scam, including knowing them outside of the game, having meet-ups in real life, hell even driving across states and meeting their wives and kids. I've seen this happen, very rarely, but it does happen. I question the mental state of such people, but Eve is a sandbox, and who are we to judge?

Even though I wouldn't go that far, I've done my fair share of piracy, high sec ganking, made a few newbs cry when I used to FC, and I did run with CODE for a short spell. The smack talk I've received is far worse than any I've dished out, I've had miners whose ship I've just popped talking about raping my mom, whereas all I've done is engaged in perfectly legit tactics within an open world space sandbox. I question the mental state of these people even more, as clearly the line between fiction and reality is well and truly blurred.

People also make the assumption that if you have a leaning toward a PvP playstyle, then you must have no life outside of the game. I could say the same about industrialists, but why would I? I have a wife and kids, I do stuff with them, I play ball with my friends and I work (hard) to provide for my family....and in my spare time I occasionally grief pixel spaceships from my desk.

TL;DR Confused why so many people assume that pirates/griefers are assholes IRL.

Because its still YOU, a real person, doing those actions and if you enjoy said actions it means there is a portion of yourself, your real self, that also enjoys said actions or you would not do them. The game allows you the freedom to drop your moral or other illusions about your societal self and lowers or removes your inhibitions to where you can do it without shattering your self image, the image you have built up and society most often ratifies of your nature as a person.

It is akin to roleplay and acting as well. Actors that have "lost" themselves so completely in dark roles have often spoken of the unease of their psyches after such roles or have literally tumbled off the moral abyss. Undercover cops, spies and undercover agents have also tumbled off this moral abyss and taken on the role they are portraying so fully that they become the corrupt portion of themselves they were meant to guard against. It is a rather common phenomena and psychologically valid.

If you are interested you should look this type of behavior up. Its a very real thing to take on the persona one wishes to have, both positively and negatively. The idea of "act as if" is very good for positive change. Aka the idea of believing yourself to already be that which you wish to become until you simply are that. It is a very fascinating human condition and really shows neuro-plasticity and the ability for a person to alter almost anything about themselves so fully as to quite literally become a very different person. Game personas are one way we delve into this "act" with ourselves and others in a mostly harmless and safe way.

How you behave in a game is a reflection of how you would behave in RL if there were no laws to punish or stop you behaving that way.

Sooo... OP wants to act like a complete ******* and be treated like the nicest guy ever all at the same time?
Sorry, that's not how it works. That side of you hasn't just spawned out of nowhere.

Personally it's simple.

When I kill someone for example in the WH where I live, I feel guilty and I generally give them some isks if they are new player.

So it's natural for me to think some players ( hisec gankers in primis ) are ***holes also in their mind, and it's even worse because they do ruin other players experience without take any risk so they are double ***holes for me.

I have to agree with everyone, your actions and attitudes in game do reflect on what you are probably like outside the game.

An ****hole in game is more than likely just as big a one irl as well as not worth knowing.

Fixed it myself.

Under pressure people revert to type.
Even so, being sanctimonious only says that about you. A person who can't lie cheat or steal doesn't get any medals for not doing so. Pacifists who are wimps or cowards can't flop out the ethics card under fire.
Most of us can lie, but only some are liars. Know the difference, relax.

My guess is such a complex and immersive game such Eve causes people to identify strongly with the imaginary pixel avatar they are controlling in the shared virtual universe of New Eden. They 'become' the capsuleer and thus take legal, but unprovoked aggressive actions against them, or deceit and trickery, personally despite the fact this is just a game designed to support this type of play.

No one, but a small child, would throw a temper tantrum or spew such vile such as seen when some miners are relieved of a ship over losing in a game. If you were playing Monopoly, and you are bankrupted by your opponent by landing on Boardwalk, it is not 'you' that has been bankrupted but rather that little thimble or shoe or whatever. Most adults will just give a 'good game' and go grab another beer and watch the rest of the game. However in Eve, many players become invested so much in their character that it is them, and thus they take another player shooting their barge personally as if the attacker had visited their house and started smashing their car with a sledgehammer.

These players need to grow up and understand this is just a game where the means of production is kept purposely vulnerable to attack by other players. You are suppose to be a target - we all are. Treat the person on the other side of the screen/keyboard who exploded you as you would a friend sitting across the table from you who just beat you in Chess or whatever. You can get mad and throw jibes and other good-natured jeers, but remember Eve players are human beings (well many of them, and even the bots are control by people) and don't deserve whatever dehumanizing vile vindictives you feel entitled to hurl at them because they dared PvP you in a full-time PvP sandbox video game. It's not only respecting the EULA, it is part of being a decent human being.

If you cannot separate your own persona from your space pixels, perhaps you should take a step back from the game and find yourself again. That is directed both at the raging miners and the out-of-game AWOXer mentioned in the OP. You are not your character and your character is not you in real life. Keep the two separate and you'll have a much more pleasant and enjoyable time in New Eden.

This topic smacks of "methinks he/she doth protest too much." It strikes at the heart of psychology, and is at the portal of aberrant psychology. It's something along the lines of, "Does that make me a bad person?"

First and foremost, this is RL. You aren't playing EVE apart from real life, so what you do in EVE you are doing in real life. Now, there are some things people do in this game, that (if characterized as their behavior of record ) would have rather stiff consequences, such as being denied the freedom to walk amongst the "good" people - as in land them in prison. And, face it, there are things people can do, if it were common knowledge, that would permanently deny them any chances of gainful employment. These things, too, can be done in EVE without any repercussions...but for that which the "community" wishes to bestow.

Secondly, with regard to the syntax of the OP's subject line; "people assume" - the blatant generality and assumption. Use of this sort of terminology does infer a certain psychological make-up. Along with this of course is the idea of, "What makes you think you would understand the answer to this question?" (Like asking the price of an item on Rodeo Drive...if you have to ask....)

What the general inference is (I assume) that we presumably are intended to take from the subject line: An individual can engage in challenging, "immersive", demanding, as well as involved, intricate and calculated behavior apart from their own individual psychology just because it's a video game. This obviates itself as it unfolds, does it not?

People afflicted with aberrant psychological characteristics, or personality disorders are not as a rule pleased with themselves or what they do. They especially are not pleased with the thought that others see their behavior and draw conclusions (which are less than positive) about them. So, as a defense mechanism they engage in numerous behaviors in an attempt to prevent, or at the least forestall such reactions to them.

These include, but are not limited to, deception (hiding ones activities, or lying outright about them.) This is reserved for the possible observer. The intent is to generate the plausible reality that what you thought you saw was actually something else, and "I" didn't do anything wrong, "you" were just looking at it wrong - which ultimately is also a form of deflection. This allows the subject to blame others for imagined, and invented infractions, shifting attention entirely away from the subject's behavior.

Then there are the rationalization and justification defenses. "I have a reason" for doing this. Or, "the outcome justifies my actions as a good, and helpful deed." For these to work, the projector has to contemptuously deny the receiver's hold on basic reality, confidence in their own observation skills, and comprehension of reality itself. Here you will find the subject has a confidence he/she is more intelligent than any observer, and is undeserving of any judgement by them as a result.

It is unnecessary to bandy words with, and refute point-by-point the assertions and utterings of such a person. The science of psychology has advanced significantly enough to not be hampered by the opinions of its subjects. (And, too, fortunately there isn't a scientifically recognized condition of being an a-hole.) Simply put, if you've been dishonest in a game, you've been dishonest in real life. It means you are capable of being, and have been dishonest. Because you were dishonest in EVE doesn't mean you weren't dishonest in real life, as you are playing EVE in real life whether you wish to admit that fact, or not.

The same goes with taking advantage of weaker people. The same goes with attempting to force the burden of your own debts onto another person, to avoid your own responsibilities. Rationalize it all you want. Justify it all you want. What is really cool about reality is: It is what it is.