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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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When to trade up to a bigger ship?

Author
Mercural Sood
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-08-30 11:49:52 UTC
At what point in skill training is it worth trading up to a bigger ship and hitting higher level missions?

For example, should I wait until I have level 4 in cruisers and the appropriate weapons before I switch out of a frig that is skilled to level 4? How about the same issue with a jump to BC?

Can you effectively get away with only level 3 in the hull skill and 3/4 for the tank/weapons, or should you really wait?

Thanks!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2016-08-30 12:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
If you're core skills I.e. fitting, tank and turret/missile/drone skills can support it with reasonable performance then go right ahead.

What reasonable performance actually is depends largely on what you want to do with the ship.

Used to be one had to train t2 small guns before t2 medium, which was then a prerequisite for larger, this isn't the case anymore so you can skip a class if you're not interested in anything it offers.
The only caveat is, if you're core skills can't support the small properly , you definitely can't support the large.
Memphis Baas
#3 - 2016-08-30 12:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
The answer is "switch to a bigger ship when you need that ship." Level 3 in support skills unlocks T2 defense modules, so you should be ok for a bit.

For PVE content (missions), level 3 is fine for cruisers and even battlecruisers, but you'll probably want level 4 by the time you get to battleships.

EVE University has a listing of skills in categories, and the skills listed under "Ship Attributes" are pretty powerful and should be trained higher if possible.

Power Grid Management and CPU Management, for example, are the only skills that give your ships more Power Grid and CPU, and those two particular attributes limit what you can install on your ships. Most people train these two skills to 5, they're that powerful, but you should be ok just take these two to 4 for now and worry about 5 later.

EDIT: But, basically, if you feel the need to switch to a cruiser, switch to a cruiser. Hopefully you can afford it and losing it won't make you quit the game. If you want to do level 2 or level 3 missions, some are easier some are harder; cruiser with level 3 skills should be fine for the majority of them though.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#4 - 2016-08-30 12:59:57 UTC
There is no one answer to this as it depends on many factors. I had a newb alt in a cruiser on his second day and in a gila 5 days after that running high sec plexes and i did fine with him. It really depends on what your doing and your personal skills at keeping yourself alive and what you are willing to risk.

So ultimately you need to ask yourself the following:

- Can I properly fit the cruiser?( can i use the proper weapons for it, tank, all the drone bandwidth? can i use all the slots without major fitting problems?)
- Am i willing to risk losing a cruiser right now?
- Can i afford to replace the cruiser if i lose it?

If the answer to those 3 are yes, then go for it.

Note: I would consider major fitting problems to be needing more than one fitting module/rig or leaving any weapon slots( not high slots just weapon slots), mid slots, or low slots unfilled because you cant fit anything else that is useful. These are fitting problems that cant be solved by either using a fitting module/rig in one slot or cant be solved by using meta modules with less power or cpu requirements. In most cases this shouldnt be a problem. But if it is, you are likely missing a very important skill somewhere.
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-08-30 21:38:07 UTC
My version : switch to a bigger ship when you can afford (ISK) to lose it and replace it as often as needed.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2016-08-30 22:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Tao Dolcino wrote:
My version : switch to a bigger ship when you can afford (ISK) to lose it and replace it as often as needed.

That's what I was going to suggest, with the note that bigger is not always better.

After 7 years of EvE, I'm still using frigates most of the time.

EDIT: Example, I do all but one level 3 missions in an Assault Frigate. I can't do the one that has a web and a energy neutralizer tower, so I use a battlecruiser for that one mission. I can do level 4 missions in a Marauder, but I enjoy doing level 3 missions in the AF.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#7 - 2016-08-31 01:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Tao Dolcino wrote:
My version : switch to a bigger ship when you can afford (ISK) to lose it and replace it as often as needed.

That's what I was going to suggest, with the note that bigger is not always better.

After 7 years of EvE, I'm still using frigates most of the time.

EDIT: Example, I do all but one level 3 missions in an Assault Frigate. I can't do the one that has a web and a energy neutralizer tower, so I use a battlecruiser for that one mission. I can do level 4 missions in a Marauder, but I enjoy doing level 3 missions in the AF.


I really only use something bigger than a cruiser for doing anoms or DED plexes in null. Other than that cruiser is about as big as i fly. I dont think i even own a battlecruiser. At one time i had like 8 drakes, 5 canes, a few harbingers, a brutix and a myrm. I havent even flown the tier 3 battlecruisers yet. The only battleships i fly at the moment are rattlesnakes and if its not a black ops or a pirate faction BS and its not for a pvp doctrine thats unlikely to change soon.

I find the bigger the ship gets, the less fun i seem to have with it. Im like 20 days away from flying both dreads and carriers and have been for nearly 5 years. One day ill get around to training it i suppose, but they just dont seem to be a lot of fun to fly.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-08-31 02:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Hello and welcome to Eve.

Only you can really answer that question. All anyone else can do is offer you advice.

I suggest training up most of the Core Fitting skills to level 5 asap before jumping into a large hull class ship. Those skills will not only increase your ship stats, but will also make it much easier for you to do max top of the line ship fits which in turn allows you to enjoy the game.

*Core Fitting Skills*

Acceleration Control - To maximize Afterburner & MWD speed.
Advanced Weapon Upgrades - To reduce turrets and launchers powergrid need.
Afterburner - To reduce Afterburner duration & capacitor need.
Capacitor Management - To maximize Capacitor.
Capacitor Systems Operation - To maximize capacitor recharge rate.
CPU Management - To maximize CPU.
Electronics Upgrades - To reduce sensors & co-processors CPU requirements.
Energy Grid Upgrades - To reduce power modules CPU requirements.
Evasive Maneuvering - To increase acceleration & agility.
Fuel Conservation - To reduce Afterburner capacitor need.
High Speed Maneuvering - To reduce MWD capacitor need.
Hull Upgrades - To maximize armor.
Mechanics - To maximize structure.
Navigation - To increase ship velocity.
Power Grid Management - To maximize powergrid.
Repair Systems - To operate best armor/hull repair modules.
Shield Management - To maximize shield.
Shield Operation - To maximize shield recharge rate.
Shield Upgrades - To reduce shield upgrades powergrid need.
Spaceship Command - To increase ship agility.
Warp Drive Operation - To reduce capacitor need for warp.
Weapon Upgrades - To reduce turrets and launchers CPU need.

These skills are listed in alphabetical order only, which skill to train first depends on your needs.

I suggest taking those skills up to level 3 to start, then work on maxing them asap. Don't just queue up one skill to train multiple levels, queue up multiple skills to train up one level each, that way you'll see a difference much sooner. Don't forget to include the other main / support skills such as specific ship, defense, offense and career oriented skills.

In my first 9 months of playing this game, I stayed in a T1 Frigate and max trained every single skill pertaining to that ship. As I advanced in skill level, so did my ship fitting. Eventually I was completing level 3 security missions within the bonus time in a T1 Frigate. Course that ship was rigged and max fit with T2, Faction and Deadspace modules.

However since I wanted to loot and salvage all of the wrecks, I needed to complete those missions much faster. Due to max training all skills pertaining to that T1 Frigate, I was able to easily and quickly switch into a Battlecruiser. After that I always tried to get the majority of skills pertaining to whichever ship I was looking to use maxed out first before I even started fitting it.

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck to you.


DMC
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2016-08-31 02:31:04 UTC
It mostly depends on what your goals are. If just making as much isk as possible is your goal then would not recommend going up in ship size and mission levels quickly. For most new players you will make more isk / hour running level 3 combat missions than running level 4's. Your knowledge of the game has a lot to do with it so there are no across the board rules.

What I will say is a lot of new players ( myself included ) come to this game from other games with more linear play where there is a clear progression towards 'end game' gear and content. None of that exists in Eve. You are not trying to "gear up" in this game. If you want to do well in this game you want to learn as much as possible and to learn you typically need to loose some ships. It's cheaper to replace the smaller ships thus easier to gain experience.

Further the bigger ships are slower and many players feel they are less fun. You could play this game for years and never fly anything bigger than a medium hull without missing out on anything. Some players almost never leave small hulls. It really depends on you.

The one thing that has been hinted at but not specifically stated is that large ships and weapons take a much longer time to train. If you stay in small and medium ships for a long period of time it gets you a chance to skill up your core skills. I know people have mentioned skilling up core / generic / support skills but I am speaking specifically about the exponential difference in training time between small and large hulls and weapons.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#10 - 2016-09-01 09:51:10 UTC
My view is train core to 3-4, get in to a cruiser run lvl1/2 missions, train for bc and improve support skills, drones, salvaging then get on to a proper plan. i have seen many new players get bored and move on.
Its also good to find a corp that is active with similar interests as they can help you and let you tag along.
I prefer to have new players in a mission with me even with poor skills so they can make iskies and learn as apposed to following behind and salvaging.

Short answer - Join a supportive corp and do the quick train to bc
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#11 - 2016-09-02 19:50:52 UTC
I use Cruisers almost everyday and I only have them trained to III

@lunettelulu7

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#12 - 2016-09-02 20:03:37 UTC
When you want to do something that can be done more effectively or more enjoyably in a different ship, then it's time to consider a different ship. The size of the ship should have no bearing on that question: a larger hammer may help you put in a screw, but it will never be an optimal way of doing so.
Ezin
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-09-02 20:03:56 UTC
Mercural Sood wrote:
At what point in skill training is it worth trading up to a bigger ship and hitting higher level missions?

For example, should I wait until I have level 4 in cruisers and the appropriate weapons before I switch out of a frig that is skilled to level 4? How about the same issue with a jump to BC?

Can you effectively get away with only level 3 in the hull skill and 3/4 for the tank/weapons, or should you really wait?

Thanks!


when you have the skill points and isk for it.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-09-03 00:10:53 UTC
You could science it, just got into a mission with your bigger ship, make sure you're aligned and then see if it works
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#15 - 2016-09-03 01:29:49 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
*Core Fitting Skills*
{snip}


Time spent training the Core Fitting, Engineering and Navigation skills is always time well spent. These are the universal skills that will drastically improve the performance of every hull you get into, now and in a year or two's time.

One other thing: focus on Fun/Hour rather than ISK/Hour.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-09-04 13:22:39 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
*Core Fitting Skills*
{snip}


Time spent training the Core Fitting, Engineering and Navigation skills is always time well spent. These are the universal skills that will drastically improve the performance of every hull you get into, now and in a year or two's time.

One other thing: focus on Fun/Hour rather than ISK/Hour.

This is probably the best advice here. Another point worth mentioning along these lines is that with tech 2 and 3 you could potentially never go beyond medium hulls in size. The tech 2 ship skills will add a significant amount of training time but it saves you the large weapons skills. Also the higher tech medium hulls will be more agile and won't feel as fat as a BS.

My first character in Eve I focused on max SP / hour and I wound up ruining that character. I had an alt that I trained whatever I felt like training and that alt quickly became my main. To this day that alt is still my main and exponentially more useful than my original "main".

You will always be training something in this game so it is a good idea to pay attention to what it is that you are training. However if you allow skill planning to become skill waiting then you are missing the point of this game and letting your OCD ruin your enjoyment of the game.

When I first came to this game from WoW I was still locked in that "must be max level" and "must have best in slot gear" mentality. I struggled with this game until I could unlearn or maybe de-program myself from that mentality.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Velarra
#17 - 2016-09-04 17:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
Mercural Sood wrote:
At what point in skill training is it worth trading up to a bigger ship and hitting higher level missions?

For example, should I wait until I have level 4 in cruisers and the appropriate weapons before I switch out of a frig that is skilled to level 4? How about the same issue with a jump to BC?

Can you effectively get away with only level 3 in the hull skill and 3/4 for the tank/weapons, or should you really wait?

Thanks!



  • At what point in skill training is it worth trading up to a bigger ship and hitting higher level missions?

  • -There are these core support skills you've been directed to in this thread by DeMichael Crimson. You really, genuinely, want those skils at 4s and 5s before you really get too far, flying ever larger ships. Primarily as the bigger the ship, the more it needs, wants and benefits from strong core supporting skills.

  • For example, should I wait until I have level 4 in cruisers and the appropriate weapons before I switch out of a frig that is skilled to level 4?

  • -Yes. But also make it a point to have the related support skills to a minimum of 4 before you choose to fly a larger or more demanding ship. It's not just about having [bigger] ship skill 4 but the related core skills that support all ships you will ever fly and fit modules to at 4 Or 5 as well.

  • How about the same issue with a jump to BC?
  • -Yes. See last response. Just being in a BC at BC 4, or battleship or specialized fancy cruiser at 4 will not at all be enough. You want the support skills that make everything functional, manageable and useful, available at your disposal. Particularly as the stakes and costs increase as ships get bigger.

  • Can you effectively get away with only level 3 in the hull skill and 3/4 for the tank/weapons, or should you really wait?
  • -This is a bit of a deep question if you give it too much thought. It's almost personal and you'll find different people have some likely very strong views on the topic when pressed. That said? I'd personally, strongly suggest 4s and 5s. Nothing less unless the skill is being trained/used on an alt and you really need it trained asap.

    -- But how do you know which ought to be trained to 4s & 5s? ... Skills that have small percentages per level are usually good enough to take to 4. The extra level to 5 and its lengthy training time are rarely worth it with a younger character. But if the skill gives you say - 10% per level of some kind of effectiveness? If it opens up some kind of important T2 module or ship type? Those you do want at 5.

    imho, forget the 3s. Stay focused in your training regimen while going out and having fun with other pilots. If anything be disciplined about your training. Finish what you start. Plan ahead the basics and avoid side tracking into skills whose usefulness or redundancy you don't fully understand at the time you inject them.


Oh, and finally consider specializing in one singular standard (Gal/Cal/Amarr/Minmatar) factions' ships. The amount of time you will save vs. training multiple factions' ships, weapon types and possibly defense type will be significant. Especially early on while focusing on training 4s and 5s in core & support skills.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#18 - 2016-09-05 04:05:30 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
*Core Fitting Skills*
{snip}


Time spent training the Core Fitting, Engineering and Navigation skills is always time well spent. These are the universal skills that will drastically improve the performance of every hull you get into, now and in a year or two's time.

One other thing: focus on Fun/Hour rather than ISK/Hour.


Mephiztopheleze is as usual a fountian of good advice here. Although I was originally going to echo Memphis. Her advice is pretty much the standard old school advice. 3 for support skills cruiser 4 support skills BS.

And Fun should always be 5.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.