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Crime & Punishment

 
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Miners and Indies need to step up

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TheVirus32
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-09-01 07:06:46 UTC
To all of you that ask for miners to be a 100% focused on local (newbies are supposed to be the american NSA now apparently), or even d-scan every two seconds (lulz!) -

Have you ever checked how much they make per hour? 20ish mils without boost ? And no, far from all of them multibox from what I've seen.

I never mine so I have no real beef in it, but most of you guys either rat in carriers @ ~200m/h or in WHs @ 300+m/h or just plex your way to pewpew..

I find it very condescending to
A) expect them to be so aware of local that they'd need to glue their eyelids open for an activity with such low rewards (hell, semi-AFK VNI makes more).
B) Expect them to have so much extra cash that they can afford to fight back against ghosts, AKA an enemy that is nothing more than a disposable alt flying cheap as f disposable destroyers, only connected when a target is already acquired.

Sure, null fixes a lot of these problems, but HS miners are players too.

I'll stop thinking of ganking as a problem when CCP will implement real ways to retaliate against catalyst alts (ex: banning -5s and less from HS stations -leads to-> citadels = can be destroyed).
Wardecs are another issue, the mechanics seriously need a rework and many good ideas have already been posted in other threads (like a hub that you can destroy / hack to shorten or cancel the wardec - it would encourage fleets of industrialists to fight their way to freedom).
The Butthole Licker
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-09-01 07:12:53 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
The Butthole Licker wrote:
...that way the miners can attack your assets ...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

...breath

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

repeat(100)



When retaliation gets a buff, if it ever does, the "carebears" will get the last laugh, the demise of code will be swift
Solecist Project
#23 - 2016-09-01 07:14:29 UTC
TheVirus32 wrote:
To all of you that ask for miners to be a 100% focused on local (newbies are supposed to be the american NSA now apparently), or even d-scan every two seconds (lulz!) -

Have you ever checked how much they make per hour? 20ish mils without boost ? And no, far from all of them multibox from what I've seen.

I never mine so I have no real beef in it, but most of you guys either rat in carriers @ ~200m/h or in WHs @ 300+m/h or just plex your way to pewpew..

I find it very condescending to
A) expect them to be so aware of local that they'd need to glue their eyelids open for an activity with such low rewards (hell, semi-AFK VNI makes more).
B) Expect them to have so much extra cash that they can afford to fight back against ghosts, AKA an enemy that is nothing more than a disposable alt flying cheap as f disposable destroyers, only connected when a target is already acquired.

Sure, null fixes a lot of these problems, but HS miners are players too.

I'll stop thinking of ganking as a problem when CCP will implement real ways to retaliate against catalyst alts (ex: banning -5s and less from HS stations -leads to-> citadels = can be destroyed).
Wardecs are another issue, the mechanics seriously need a rework and many good ideas have already been posted in other threads (like a hub that you can destroy / hack to shorten or cancel the wardec - it would encourage fleets of industrialists to fight their way to freedom).

Your non-arguments are irrelevant and countered with a single line:
It's not condescending at all, you just delusionally think too high of yourself.
No one forces you to mine and we expect the same from you as from everyone else.

it is damn easy to mine safely even in full yield setups ...
... with half an eye on the overview ...
... and we all absolutely CAN expect people not to be afk!

Being afk is not gameplay!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
The Butthole Licker
Doomheim
#24 - 2016-09-01 07:16:59 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
TheVirus32 wrote:
To all of you that ask for miners to be a 100% focused on local (newbies are supposed to be the american NSA now apparently), or even d-scan every two seconds (lulz!) -

Have you ever checked how much they make per hour? 20ish mils without boost ? And no, far from all of them multibox from what I've seen.

I never mine so I have no real beef in it, but most of you guys either rat in carriers @ ~200m/h or in WHs @ 300+m/h or just plex your way to pewpew..

I find it very condescending to
A) expect them to be so aware of local that they'd need to glue their eyelids open for an activity with such low rewards (hell, semi-AFK VNI makes more).
B) Expect them to have so much extra cash that they can afford to fight back against ghosts, AKA an enemy that is nothing more than a disposable alt flying cheap as f disposable destroyers, only connected when a target is already acquired.

Sure, null fixes a lot of these problems, but HS miners are players too.

I'll stop thinking of ganking as a problem when CCP will implement real ways to retaliate against catalyst alts (ex: banning -5s and less from HS stations -leads to-> citadels = can be destroyed).
Wardecs are another issue, the mechanics seriously need a rework and many good ideas have already been posted in other threads (like a hub that you can destroy / hack to shorten or cancel the wardec - it would encourage fleets of industrialists to fight their way to freedom).

Your non-arguments are irrelevant and countered with a single line:
It's not condescending at all, you just delusionally think too high of yourself.
No one forces you to mine and we expect the same from you as from everyone else.

it is damn easy to mine safely even in full yield setups ...
... with half an eye on the overview ...
... and we all absolutely CAN expect people not to be afk!

Being afk is not gameplay!



Code alt spotted lol
Solecist Project
#25 - 2016-09-01 07:19:22 UTC
You're clearly an intellectual.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
Novus Ordo.
#26 - 2016-09-01 07:20:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

Your non-arguments are irrelevant and countered with a single line:
It's not condescending at all, you just delusionally think too high of yourself.
No one forces you to mine and we expect the same from you as from everyone else.

it is damn easy to mine safely even in full yield setups ...
... with half an eye on the overview ...
... and we all absolutely CAN expect people not to be afk!

Being afk is not gameplay!


But... without us (AFK) miners you'd have no ships!

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec
Lemuel Noud
Doomheim
#27 - 2016-09-01 07:21:36 UTC
Like all things mining is a risky business and I believe if your dumb enough to leave your ship to go read a book and come back to a frozen corpse then that's the price you pay. I mine and have lost ships due to my own negligence not because some nasty pilot blew my ass off. That's right, you heard it right, negligence..if you left your ship in a PvP battle or half way through a mission you would be called an idiot but somehow leaving a mining barge or an exhumer unattended is somebody else's fault. Grow a pair. If in Rl I left my car parked in a housing project I wouldn't expect to go back to much more than a chassis. Profit and loss is what it's all about. You can earn the price of mining ship quickly if your a decent Miner so the only loss really is to the ego. I sort of admire the serious low and 0.0 sec gankers, I ******* hate losing a ship but essentially we are on the same page. If I'm vigilant he or she has no target and flies on, if I'm not then they have whatever loot and drones are left. I aint paying for no licence though.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#28 - 2016-09-01 07:26:36 UTC
The Butthole Licker wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:



Code alt spotted lol

Thanks for the laugh!

Remove standings and insurance.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-09-01 08:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Caco De'mon wrote:
The Butthole Licker wrote:
I don't want to disrupt code, I want to destroy code assets

Why not stage out of citadels under the code banner? Because you guys are not willin to put an asset at risk. Yet y'all destroy hundreds of billions in assets every week.

In fact I want suicide banking to be easier not harder, however the player base should be able to retaliate against those who destroy their assets



Well we don't have or need assets...we're akin to guerrilla warfare and that's very hard to combat.

'Guerrilla warfare' is used when you cannot beat your opponent directly. Doing it in a game.... Man, that's why noone takes CODE seriouslyCool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Khan Tzestu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2016-09-01 09:18:47 UTC
And this is why us miners and Indies get no respect. It's known that miners won't fight back so why not. Seriously where's the danger. Instead of flying around looking for them there's to many that want to just mine. Is mining that much more fun than taking shots back at someone? Is it better to just take it and hope for help from ccp? I think not, I think it's much better to at least show you got a pair.

I'm not sure if yall realize it or not, but miners and builders can control all if united. Maybe isk is the only thing some care about. Let me ask you this, what good is isk if you don't have fun with it. Is it going to buy you a house? Put kids through college? Use it to gain respect.

It's not just code, but pirates in lowsec also. These guys do hold citadels and can be hurt. Imagine if miners put max isk bs aside and organized properly. Low sec ore, ice, pi and the most important part of this. Respect. But you have to split it with your protection. And until there's a real effort to keep your area safe then who would want to help?

All I'm saying is to take a stand or dont. But if you did nothing towards solving the issue then don't cry when you get ganked. You want code and other gankers gone then stand up and take your pride back. It's a game, you won't die in real life. You never know you might just like it a little.
Serene Repose
#31 - 2016-09-01 09:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
The powers that be either:

a.) Find it amusing like the kid who pulls the wings off flies and chuckles to himself.

or

b.) Have so low an opinion of us as people would allow such a despicable practice into their game
thinking "people like [us] deserve this treatment."

Their new, low caste [*chuckles to herself*] will be red meat to this. Watch how that works out with regard to -

NEW PLAYER RETENTION


(FYI - In rookie chat, telling the n00bs about CODE is "discussing internal politics and not allowed".)

Success has a thousand fathers. Failure is always an orphan.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Solecist Project
#32 - 2016-09-01 10:19:25 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Caco De'mon wrote:
The Butthole Licker wrote:
I don't want to disrupt code, I want to destroy code assets

Why not stage out of citadels under the code banner? Because you guys are not willin to put an asset at risk. Yet y'all destroy hundreds of billions in assets every week.

In fact I want suicide banking to be easier not harder, however the player base should be able to retaliate against those who destroy their assets



Well we don't have or need assets...we're akin to guerrilla warfare and that's very hard to combat.

'Guerrilla warfare' is used when you cannot beat your opponent directly. Doing it in a game.... Man, that's why noone takes CODE seriouslyCool

In my head now I see vietnamese people hiding in their houses ...
... while having disposable meatshields scouting for their targets ...
... so they then run out of the house, strike for 20 seconds and then run back again.

Yeah, no ... laughable.


The sad part is that they're all completely immune to advise.
Their bloated egos from their imaginary power just makes it impossible.

It's hilarious how uncoordinated their public efforts are ...
... and it really saddens me seeing them like this.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-09-01 10:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Serene Repose wrote:

b.) Have so low an opinion of us as people would allow such a despicable practice into their game
thinking "people like [us] deserve this treatment."

Well, CCP may be full of sadists, but you'd have to be a masochist to put up with it in that case.

It's not like anyone is forced to play if they feel they are subjected to despicable practices.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-09-01 10:39:57 UTC
The Butthole Licker wrote:



When retaliation gets a buff, if it ever does, the "carebears" will get the last laugh, the demise of code will be swift


Ok, seriously. Let's be honest - if the "Carebears" were going to retaliate, they'd have done it by now. This isn't new - CODE has been around for what - two-ish years? Retaliation doesn't need a buff - most of CODE are already so low in sec status you can shoot them on sight - you don't even need to wait for them to shoot first.

I get it, I mean I do - highsec mining literally is the single most boring way to make ISK in this game. And some people really do want to do it just to relax and read a book while they turn big rocks into little rocks and little rocks into gravel.

And some people really just want to blow up your gravel munching ships. So why is your playstyle more valid than theirs?

Code comes into system - dock up, switch ships, pew pew pew. Gankalysts have a tank so thin you can see through it.
Or take a lesson from the Goons - if you make the enemy's playtime unfun, he will stop playing (or at least stop trying to play with you). So when you see CODE running around, you put away any asset that looks gankable and you meet them in combat ships and take away their fun.

It isn't hard, but it does require you to be slightly more active than the average potato. Of course, that may be the problem.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#35 - 2016-09-01 11:17:29 UTC
I'm that guy that floats into every one of these threads and says-

Get out of hisec.

Simple, you can shoot anyone who looks at you funny, the rocks are better. If hisec griefers kept picking on rookies too much they'd be dealt with by some sort of game change like Fizzle sov.
Please stop taking them at all seriously, if you fight them you're diving into the muddy little ditch they live in. Leave em to it and move to null. Like, in the next few weeks.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Solecist Project
#36 - 2016-09-01 11:19:44 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
I'm that guy that floats into every one of these threads and says-

Get out of hisec.

Simple, you can shoot anyone who looks at you funny, the rocks are better. If hisec griefers kept picking on rookies too much they'd be dealt with by some sort of game change like Fizzle sov.
Please stop taking them at all seriously, if you fight them you're diving into the muddy little ditch they live in. Leave em to it and move to null. Like, in the next few weeks.



I like that you're not wrong ...
... but you overly exaggerate the rookie griefing.

The real griefers are fhose who tell noobs not to go to lowsec and instead run missions and mine.

Like the willing pet slaves of big brother that they are.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#37 - 2016-09-01 11:44:47 UTC
Khan Tzestu wrote:
. My point is very clear



If you'd been introduced to paragraphs, it would've been even clearer Sad

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Elinarien
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-09-01 12:11:41 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
I'm that guy that floats into every one of these threads and says-

Get out of hisec.

Simple, you can shoot anyone who looks at you funny, the rocks are better. If hisec griefers kept picking on rookies too much they'd be dealt with by some sort of game change like Fizzle sov.
Please stop taking them at all seriously, if you fight them you're diving into the muddy little ditch they live in. Leave em to it and move to null. Like, in the next few weeks.



I like that you're not wrong ...
... but you overly exaggerate the rookie griefing.

The real griefers are fhose who tell noobs not to go to lowsec and instead run missions and mine.

Like the willing pet slaves of big brother that they are.


I fully agree. CODE's impact on the game is over-exaggerated and it's certainly not hard to find space where the kills per 24 hours normally just flatline. Indeed I can't remember the last time I came across a gate camp in low sec - Old Man Star perhaps but that's nothing unusual. In the neck of the woods where my alts do their PI, the runs into low sec are uneventful to the point where I look forward to someone popping up on grid.

That all being said, if CODE can keep space clean of the hordes of untanked Ventures then those of us who mine in tank-fitted Procs & Skiffs will be just fine and the belts untouched by others.
Solecist Project
#39 - 2016-09-01 12:28:58 UTC
Ah well, now it's here to rot.

vOv

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#40 - 2016-09-01 13:29:13 UTC
The Butthole Licker wrote:
You are admitting your play style is over powered, thank you for agreeing my with me.

One thing is for certain, if the mechanics ever changed that would allow players to effectively retaliate against code, its demise would be swift.


No, I'm using common sense and knowledge of real warfare when saying there are parallels top guerrilla warfare. I actually don't say "over-powered" as that's you just tossing that in and not even explaining how/why...

As for "the mechanics"....WHAT mechanics!?!?! You don't even know how to "fix" it...

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."