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Why does CCP hate freighters so much

First post
Author
Angry Onions
Fast Eddy's X-ploding Diner
#21 - 2016-08-29 14:31:32 UTC
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
whining

Fix in next pach.

Pronto.

That IS an order.






Lol or what? What'chu gonna do if (read: when) they ignore you?


Fedo Otsolen wrote:
Give carebears a fighting chance.... for CONCORD to do their job.... WHAT ARE WE PAYING THEM FOR ANYWAYS!!!!!!


Pretty sure we're not paying them at all?

S H I T P O S T I N G

Lugh Crow-Slave
#22 - 2016-08-29 15:58:44 UTC

Fedo Otsolen wrote:
Give carebears a fighting chance.... for CONCORD to do their job....



I love this line its like he realizes they do have a fighting chance and had to add in that he wants concord to do it
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2016-08-29 17:31:57 UTC
Just one more nerf.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#24 - 2016-08-29 20:52:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just one more nerf.


I have a mission for you, sir. In fact, I think several of us have a mission for you.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Gerhard Stringfellow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-08-29 21:23:30 UTC
If Freighters had true capital levels of tank everyone including myself would afk haul and hi sec piracy would be dead; this would not be a good thing. It's actually tough to gank (having tried it with mixed success) and takes real coordination and patience to FC a freighter gank, especially while -10.

Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#26 - 2016-08-29 22:32:21 UTC
They don't hate freighters at all.

I've moved hundreds of billions around in freighters. I have never lost one. I have even made some ISK moving stuff around. The moment they are functionally immune to their owners' ignorance of how to keep them safe, I will not make another penny moving people's stuff, nor will anyone else. Good freighter pilots are worthy paying for specifically because bad freighter pilots won't actually get the stuff moved on time, or in one piece. You pay for expertise and time. If freighters were immune to ganks, then moving stuff would take neither expertise nor time, and thus would be worth no ISK at all.

A)Use a scout.

B)Use a webbing alt/corpmate

C)Use killboards to look for activity and known hazard systems

D)The hull patch a few patches ago gave freighters a TON more HP, at zero cost.

E)Combat capitals are much different than freighters. A good freighter pilot will never even so much as get yellow boxed, where a good combat capital pilot will be the focus of large amounts of punishment.

F)If there was an emergency hull energizer for freighters, it would be literally impossible to ever gank in high sec. The 20s of immunity it buys would place you surrounded by 20 concord spawns, and plenty of time to warp off to safety no matter how fast the gankers can pull.

G)Even more HP straight up is a bad defense. JFs die too, in high sec, and they have lots more HP. Don't get caught in the first place. There's a reason why red frog is worth paying for, and part of that is the 98+% success rate they have.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#27 - 2016-08-29 22:45:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Vic Jefferson wrote:


B)Use a webbing alt/corpmate






ON the subject of freighters and webbing alts etc..... can we just get a module/mechanic designed to do this already? The duel/web alt is great and all.... but it's not what it's designed to do and I'm guessing since CCP hasn't removed/modified the duel/web alt thing, they're okay with it being a thing. So..... can we stop beating around the bush and just get a proper mechanic for it yet?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#28 - 2016-08-29 23:30:43 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:


B)Use a webbing alt/corpmate






ON the subject of freighters and webbing alts etc..... can we just get a module/mechanic designed to do this already? The duel/web alt is great and all.... but it's not what it's designed to do and I'm guessing since CCP hasn't removed/modified the duel/web alt thing, they're okay with it being a thing. So..... can we stop beating around the bush and just get a proper mechanic for it yet?



Hence the topic... why does CCP hate freighters.....

:D
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#29 - 2016-08-29 23:43:50 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:


B)Use a webbing alt/corpmate






ON the subject of freighters and webbing alts etc..... can we just get a module/mechanic designed to do this already? The duel/web alt is great and all.... but it's not what it's designed to do and I'm guessing since CCP hasn't removed/modified the duel/web alt thing, they're okay with it being a thing. So..... can we stop beating around the bush and just get a proper mechanic for it yet?


I really don't see a problem with it. Ugh

I mean at least it is philosophically consistent with what they did to combat carriers - apparently they want caps to always be supported one way or another with subcaps. Not saying I agree with it, but it is philosophically consistent.

They recently gave a ton more free HP, and the warp off after 5 mins thing.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#30 - 2016-08-30 00:05:58 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:


I really don't see a problem with it. Ugh



That is because you only fly frigs and this may not be an area of eve you are strong in.

There is a serious issue here wich needs to be discuses.
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#31 - 2016-08-30 00:42:54 UTC
Fedo Otsolen wrote:



Hence the topic... why does CCP hate freighters.....

:D



Not really...... you're going on about using capital modules and freighters having nothing they can do to not be ganked.





I'm just suggesting we stop with this hodge-podged 'Bro, duel me bro! Now attack me into warp bro!' mechanic and move to a mechanic actually designed to do this effectively same thing, since it seems to be the way CCP wants it set up anyway. That's kinda the whole second part to emergent gameplay that people tend to forget about..... if it emerges, and CCP deems it bad.... it gets nerfed. If it emerges, and CCP deems it good.... it should be accounted for in mechanics, not just left this unplanned for result of a particular mechanic. I don't think Freighters specifically need any buff of any sort.


Now all that being said, if CCP wants to get off their Heineken and redo alot of stuff on the mining and logistics side that is just bad gameplay to start, then sure, would be interesting to throw some ideas around then. But I'm not a fan of bandaid fixes that leave the core bad gameplay unchanged for Lels.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

FT Cold
No Vacancies
Wardec Mechanics
#32 - 2016-08-30 01:36:07 UTC
Didn't they just get buffed twice?

I just did a quick check of zkill and it doesn't look to me like empty freighters are being annihilated in high. Most of them have been whales with enough loot to guarantee profitability. Looks to me like another case of working as intended.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#33 - 2016-08-30 03:00:58 UTC
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:


I really don't see a problem with it. Ugh



That is because you only fly frigs and this may not be an area of eve you are strong in.

There is a serious issue here wich needs to be discuses.




Vic Jefferson wrote:

I've moved hundreds of billions around in freighters. I have never lost one. I have even made some ISK moving stuff around.


All of my characters, including Vic which is a main, have at least one if not two freighters skilled. I have run my alliances logistics for months, I have stocked markets, I have even run liquidation/moving services for trusted individuals. There's a reason I have no freighter losses on any of my characters: I know how to fly them.

There's really no issue with them.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Lugh Crow-Slave
#34 - 2016-08-30 04:51:25 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:


B)Use a webbing alt/corpmate






ON the subject of freighters and webbing alts etc..... can we just get a module/mechanic designed to do this already? The duel/web alt is great and all.... but it's not what it's designed to do and I'm guessing since CCP hasn't removed/modified the duel/web alt thing, they're okay with it being a thing. So..... can we stop beating around the bush and just get a proper mechanic for it yet?



so they have a tool that players have found does the job

it does it great and there are poor ways and good ways to do it

it counters and has counters

what the hell do they need to add.

the fact that we found a way to use something in a way other than it was intended does not mean we need to add in something new to fill that role
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#35 - 2016-08-30 05:26:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
He has a point. The way freighters are atm theyre worth ganking even when empty. There should be a reasonable cost but there is not. Take a look at Baltec1s last day of ganking in high - 14 frieghters ganked. 13 empty.

Stupid situation, my idea of each class of ship having specific resistance to smaller class guns would help.

A dessie shooting another dessie 100% damage, shooting a cruiser, 90%, battleship 70%, freighter 60% , etc etc.

Makes no sense atm battleship shooting frig 20% or less while frig shooting all bigger ships is 100.



We can only take this seriously if you type this while on your motorcycle

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#36 - 2016-08-30 05:58:35 UTC
How many alts do you have. It's like you create two new ones per week to open the same old threads again and again and again. This is getting old. Thread reported. Post with your main.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#37 - 2016-08-30 06:42:55 UTC
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
Hence the topic... why does CCP hate freighters.....


Wrong question. The right question is, why does CCP hate Caldari so much?

They overnerfed the medium sized missile launchers and replaced them with frigate missiles and battleship ones. When are the Caldari get their medium sized missiles back?

Heavy assault missiles are in dire need of application and heavy missiles are so terrible that you cannot hurt a planet with precision ones.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#38 - 2016-08-30 15:43:28 UTC
You don't get to order me around. Big smile

Quote:

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