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Magic barrier of 20M ISK / 1h what i'm doing wrong ?

Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2016-08-29 07:28:19 UTC
Biohazard NML wrote:
Ion Kirst wrote:


What ship were you using? What was it's fit? How are your SPs allocated? (what are your strengths, missiles or turrets?)

-Kirst


I fly Maelstrom here's fit:

[Maelstrom, L4 Misjonarz Speed copy]

Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil
Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier I
X-Large Shield Booster II
100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner

1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5


EMP L x320

Damage I do:
Volley: 2.5k
DPS: 231 (Including drones)

1 mission ~ 20 - 25 minutes (excluding looting and salvaging - I do it with Noctis after )

I thought to try out Raven but havn't done yet.


I see the problem. Arty is a very slow weapon and the lack of gyros is going to hurt too.

Ok I have an idea, get yourself into a mach as fast as you can and then follow this guide. Its relatively safe and lets you practice getting used to blitzing missions.
Biohazard NML
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2016-08-29 08:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Biohazard NML
baltec1 wrote:


Ok I have an idea, get yourself into a mach as fast as you can and then follow this guide. Its relatively safe and lets you practice getting used to blitzing missions.


Mach isn't problem - 2 days from now, price ... well I could buy it but then i'd broke the rule "Never fly anything you can't afford to lose". I know already that Machariel is one of the best L4 Blitzer. Thanks for link to guide - I'll do the maths and probably go for Machariel anyway - no risk no fun they say :)
Biohazard NML
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2016-08-29 10:51:45 UTC
I've done cup of skills and new fit - can you tell me what do you think about this fit:

[Maelstrom, L4 copy]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Thermal Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Ionic Field Accelerator I
Ionic Field Accelerator I
500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Valkyrie II x5


With this I've get 580 HP/s shield recharge (1m10s capa) 646 DPS (drone dmg included) / 728 DPS when I use republic fleet ammo
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#44 - 2016-08-29 12:52:12 UTC
I make about 8-10 mil isk a tick ninja belt ratting crappy systems( low true sec and few belts) in a stratios. 20 mil a tick ratting hubs in a rattlesnake, nearly 30 mil a tick ratting havens in a snake.

Exploration where i currently live is crap( CCPLS balance exploration sites between the factions) but in a certain factions space i was making a bil isk in exploration in about 4 hours. Thats 4 hours of hunting, scanning, and hacking and NOT cherry picking.

You can pretty much make 30 mil plus an hour accidentally doing any pve in null. High sec is pretty much a waste of time for making isk unless you are pretty new( under 5 mil sp) . You have to deal with gankers, baiters, thieves, and wardeccers while trying to make crap isk doing missions. Dont have any of that in null. Just check local, check intel, undock, warp to anom, kill stuff, collect a check every 20 mins.
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#45 - 2016-08-29 13:03:16 UTC
Biohazard NML wrote:
I've done cup of skills and new fit - can you tell me what do you think about this fit:

[Maelstrom, L4 copy]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Thermal Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Ionic Field Accelerator I
Ionic Field Accelerator I
500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Valkyrie II x5


With this I've get 580 HP/s shield recharge (1m10s capa) 646 DPS (drone dmg included) / 728 DPS when I use republic fleet ammo


Step 1: Join a null corp
Step 2: Buy a VNI, with decent drone skills( you can train up in about a week to all level 4 drone skills) you will put out 600-700 dps. Entire fit will cost 90-110 mil with faction heavies( or t2 heavies if you can use)
Step 3: Run Havens.
Step 4: Profit
Step 5: Pay off the VNI in about 4 havens( should take you 2-3 hours in a VNI)
Step 6: More profits
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#46 - 2016-08-29 13:40:33 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Biohazard NML wrote:
I've done cup of skills and new fit - can you tell me what do you think about this fit:

[Maelstrom, L4 copy]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Thermal Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Ionic Field Accelerator I
Ionic Field Accelerator I
500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Valkyrie II x5


With this I've get 580 HP/s shield recharge (1m10s capa) 646 DPS (drone dmg included) / 728 DPS when I use republic fleet ammo


Step 1: Join a null corp
Step 2: Buy a VNI, with decent drone skills( you can train up in about a week to all level 4 drone skills) you will put out 600-700 dps. Entire fit will cost 90-110 mil with faction heavies( or t2 heavies if you can use)
Step 3: Run Havens.
Step 4: Profit
Step 5: Pay off the VNI in about 4 havens( should take you 2-3 hours in a VNI)
Step 6: More profits

Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#47 - 2016-08-29 13:43:54 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income?


???

How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour?
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#48 - 2016-08-29 13:54:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income?


???

How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour?

Using Roenok's estimate that it will take 3 hours to make back the 90 mil spent on the ship:

90 mil in 3 hours is only 30 mil/hour - *after* he skills up,etc.


It isn't significantly better than what he was making in his horribly underskilled battleship grinding L4s at a snail's pace....and it requires him dumping all of the skill training he has to train a ship that uses a different weapons system, different tank, etc - basically telling him to start over from scratch.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Syna Anima
SYNDAX CORPORATION
#49 - 2016-08-29 15:10:42 UTC
If I were you I'd move to 0.0 asap. Can easily get to 60 mil/h on a 600+ DPS sentry II domi. Cheap, reliable.

After that, you can try carrier ratting, that will boost your income. Alternatively, do incursions or trade. A good trader in a staging system for a big alliance in one of the 0.0 hubs can make billions/month. You only have to do some jumps and update orders from time to time.

If you trade, making ISK while doing PVP is best. Actually probably when you sleep is better, you wake up and your wallet is blinking at you.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#50 - 2016-08-29 15:26:19 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income?


???

How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour?

Using Roenok's estimate that it will take 3 hours to make back the 90 mil spent on the ship:

90 mil in 3 hours is only 30 mil/hour - *after* he skills up,etc.


It isn't significantly better than what he was making in his horribly underskilled battleship grinding L4s at a snail's pace....and it requires him dumping all of the skill training he has to train a ship that uses a different weapons system, different tank, etc - basically telling him to start over from scratch.


Must be some kind of typo on his part. A VNI will get you 13-15 mil minimum every 20 minutes at level 4 skills (I've had as high as 19 mil) in named hubs (forsaken, forlorn) and Havens. At a minimum that's about double what the OP says he makes. All for training a ship and drone skills for maybe a couple weeks.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2016-08-29 15:29:37 UTC
I made 35m to 50m ISK/hr running L4 missions in a Gila. (Not counting the time and effort to build and sell the faction items from the LP store.)

I made 1b ISK/wk doing station trading which required about 40min/day, so that was about 214m ISK/hr.

I make 45m to 65m ISK/hr running Hubs and such in a Rattlesnake. (Irony: the first day I was using my first Rattlesnnake, I landed in a site with a dread rat, did not warp out soon enough, and lost the Rattlesnake. Welp.)
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#52 - 2016-08-29 15:51:57 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income?


???

How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour?

Using Roenok's estimate that it will take 3 hours to make back the 90 mil spent on the ship:

90 mil in 3 hours is only 30 mil/hour - *after* he skills up,etc.


It isn't significantly better than what he was making in his horribly underskilled battleship grinding L4s at a snail's pace....and it requires him dumping all of the skill training he has to train a ship that uses a different weapons system, different tank, etc - basically telling him to start over from scratch.



I will clarify. I can run a haven in snake CASUALLY( this word is very important) in less than 1 tick. About 18 minutes actually from undock to warp back to dock depending on where it is system and i rat in a large system. A newer player but with decent skills should be able to run the same haven in about 25-30 min. A haven pays around 25 mil in bounty give or take. So that is 50 mil an hour.

Unlike most people here, i give realistic numbers not optimal efficiency. So worse case scenario with screwing around it should take you no more than 3 hours to make 100 mil with a 9 mil SP character running havens in a VNI. And if you are trying you can probably make 50-60 mil an hour.

I make 8-10 mil a tick Thats 25-30 mil hr, screwing around belt ratting crappy pipe systems for ADM. in a stratios...with only drones for weapons. I get interrupted by neuts/hostiles at least 2-3 times an hour and my stratios gets 200 dps less than i could get out of a VNI.

Also Drones are a weapon system that everyone should have regardless of what race you fly because every race uses drones and your not utilizing that extra dps. And you dont armor tank a VNI. The lows should be pretty much all drone stuff, The mids should be a prop, possibly a drone nav to increase drone velocity, and some shield mods to give you a buffer for those random hits. The highs should have nothing but a drone link for extra range.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#53 - 2016-08-29 16:12:25 UTC
I am well aware that Havens are essentially single-pocket L4 combat missions without LP rewards, and thus have a very similar level of income, yes.

So what?

How does that make them *better* for the specific player in question?



Also - yes, everyone needs *some* drone skills.

But to be efficient with a vexor navy issue (or rattlesnake) you need *t2 heavy drones* - these are *not* needed for anything but actual drone boats - and they take just as long to train as any other battleship class weapons system - so his time might be better spend perfecting the system he has already chosen...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#54 - 2016-08-29 16:25:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
I am well aware that Havens are essentially single-pocket L4 combat missions without LP rewards, and thus have a very similar level of income, yes.

So what?

How does that make them *better* for the specific player in question?


Ok, you are having some reading comprehension issues today. Here
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
A newer player but with decent skills should be able to run the same haven in about 25-30 min. A haven pays around 25 mil in bounty give or take. So that is 50 mil an hour.


The name of this thread is "Magic barrier of 20M ISK / 1h what i'm doing wrong ?"

How is any of this hard to understand?




Quote:

Also - yes, everyone needs *some* drone skills.

But to be efficient with a vexor navy issue (or rattlesnake) you need *t2 heavy drones* - these are *not* needed for anything but actual drone boats - and they take just as long to train as any other battleship class weapons system - so his time might be better spend perfecting the system he has already chosen...



This part demonstrates you just don't understand (it seems like you haven't had much PVE experience). A VNI is a short train to all 4s in relevant skills. It would take way WAY longer to get a minmatar gun BS to the level where it could match a VNI in terms of isk making potential. This is why multiple people (who do have PVE experience) are saying the same thing (as you noted in your post, yes almost everyone is giving similar advice).

Also, the tech2 drone thing if way off base, Faction drones are more than acceptable for a new player.

If the OP wants to stay in high sec, a drone ship like the Domi or Gila are better choices than what he uses. The Domi is also a relatively short train and the Gila is ridiculous easy to train into. The Gila is only an ok lvl 4 ship, but it's still better than a maelstrom.

Are you going to offer anything useful to the OP or are you going to nitpick those that are?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2016-08-29 17:08:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

If the OP wants to stay in high sec, a drone ship like the Domi or Gila are better choices than what he uses. The Domi is also a relatively short train and the Gila is ridiculous easy to train into. The Gila is only an ok lvl 4 ship, but it's still better than a maelstrom.


Gotta disagree on the cross training into the domi, the best ship is the mach not only because its very good at missions but also because its a rather quick train to get into as he already has the matari battleship and autocannon skills trained. Swapping out to the tempest could be an option here.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#56 - 2016-08-29 17:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
If you throw the OP into a haven right now with his current skills he'll be lucky to get the same isk he is making now...
What some other theoretical player with the right skills/ship/fit makes is irrelevant if you insist on comparing them *TO THE OP*...

Quibbling about details for drones/etc aside, my core point remains:
The player you are talking about will make just as much if not more running L4 missions in high sec as they will running havens in 0.0 - so *why* should the OP go do the havens instead of just doing the same thing right where he is now?


Additionally - since the OP is running L4s in his maelstrom and not dieing - he is obviously close to having the skills to fly it properly - he just needs more DPS related skills (and eventually an upgrade to the machariel)... So your whining about how long it takes to train into is irrelevant - he has already put in most of the training time. As Baltec has already pointed out he can easily upgrade into the machariel any time he is ready.


And of course T1/Faction drones can be used - just like meta 4 guns can be used on a battleship... But good luck getting 60m isk per hour with them...


I never said Havens weren't good isk - I said they are essentially the same as L4s for income - the bounties are a bit more accessible since they are all single-pocket - and since they give no LP at all, it comes out pretty much exactly even...

I just asked why the OP should throw away everything he has done and pretend he just started EVE today just to go out there and make *the same* amount of isk as he is almost trained to make in high-sec... And you have yet to give me a good answer.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2016-08-29 17:29:45 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
If you throw the OP into a haven right now with his current skills he'll be lucky to get the same isk he is making now...
What some other theoretical player with the right skills/ship/fit makes is irrelevant if you insist on comparing them *TO THE OP*...

Quibbling about details for drones/etc aside, my core point remains:
The player you are talking about will make just as much if not more running L4 missions in high sec as they will running havens in 0.0 - so *why* should the OP go do the havens instead of just doing the same thing right where he is now?


Additionally - since the OP is running L4s in his maelstrom and not dieing - he is obviously close to having the skills to fly it properly - he just needs more DPS related skills (and eventually an upgrade to the machariel)... So your whining about how long it takes to train into is irrelevant - he has already put in most of the training time. As Baltec has already pointed out he can easily upgrade into the machariel any time he is ready.


And of course T1/Faction drones can be used - just like meta 4 guns can be used on a battleship... But good luck getting 60m isk per hour with them...


I never said Havens weren't good isk - I said they are essentially the same as L4s for income - the bounties are a bit more accessible since they are all single-pocket - and since they give no LP at all, it comes out pretty much exactly even...

I just asked why the OP should throw away everything he has done and pretend he just started EVE today just to go out there and make *the same* amount of isk as he is almost trained to make in high-sec... And you have yet to give me a good answer.


Now now play nice.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#58 - 2016-08-29 17:36:33 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
If you throw the OP into a haven right now with his current skills he'll be lucky to get the same isk he is making now...
What some other theoretical player with the right skills/ship/fit makes is irrelevant if you insist on comparing them *TO THE OP*...

Quibbling about details for drones/etc aside, my core point remains:
The player you are talking about will make just as much if not more running L4 missions in high sec as they will running havens in 0.0 - so *why* should the OP go do the havens instead of just doing the same thing right where he is now?


One of the things i've always wondered about in general is why people choose to talk about things they don't know about. I mean it's obvious that you don't, and yet you want to argue with people who do? I'm sorry but that's dumb.

The question was isk per hour. People who know something about PVE have told him an easy way to break the barrier he is experiencing (a cheaper and easy to train for VNI in an upgraded null system).

Quote:

Additionally - since the OP is running L4s in his maelstrom and not dieing - he is obviously close to having the skills to fly it properly - he just needs more DPS related skills (and eventually an upgrade to the machariel)... So your whining about how long it takes to train into is irrelevant - he has already put in most of the training time. As Baltec has already pointed out he can easily upgrade into the machariel any time he is ready.


And of course T1/Faction drones can be used - just like meta 4 guns can be used on a battleship... But good luck getting 60m isk per hour with them...


I never said Havens weren't good isk - I said they are essentially the same as L4s for income - the bounties are a bit more accessible since they are all single-pocket - and since they give no LP at all, it comes out pretty much exactly even...

I just asked why the OP should throw away everything he has done and pretend he just started EVE today just to go out there and make *the same* amount of isk as he is almost trained to make in high-sec... And you have yet to give me a good answer.


It's been explained to you by people who know, it's not the same amount of isk, it's more isk for a short (1-2 week) train.

I can't give you a good answer if you don't have enough knowledge about PVE to understand what I'm saying to you (and you demonstrated your ignorance when talking about tech2 drones, this is not 2012 where tech2 heavy drones are the end all and be all). you keep demonstrating that you don't, which makes your decision to post in a thread about PVE issues really, well, dumb.

I'll ask again, are you going to offer anything useful to the OP, or are you going to continue to defensively nitpick issues you don't know about?
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#59 - 2016-08-29 17:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
So just to clarify - you are saying that the only valid form of PvE is 0.0 havens - and anybody doing any PvE other than that is an idiot because they could be making significantly more isk much easier doing 0.0 havens?

I may not know a lot about PvE - but I know that is ****ing stupid. If it is true, then EVE is a lot more broken than I thought it was.


edit: And I already gave the OP my useful advice ages ago - yes I've gotten sidetracked wondering why people want him to start over on an entirely new path seemingly at random now...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#60 - 2016-08-29 17:42:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

If the OP wants to stay in high sec, a drone ship like the Domi or Gila are better choices than what he uses. The Domi is also a relatively short train and the Gila is ridiculous easy to train into. The Gila is only an ok lvl 4 ship, but it's still better than a maelstrom.


Gotta disagree on the cross training into the domi, the best ship is the mach not only because its very good at missions but also because its a rather quick train to get into as he already has the matari battleship and autocannon skills trained. Swapping out to the tempest could be an option here.


A mach is an ok idea. On balance there is a reason why so many people suggest drone ships for newish player PVE. A Mach in the hands of a new player can still go boom as they learn lvl 4 missioning, a Domi is an all rounder type ship that is much more forgiving of screw ups like shooting the wrong trigger.

If he HAS to stay with projectiles, ok sure, Mach it is (Tempest? just no), and eventually he can get to a good isk level with it if he's willing to run for SOE (or Thukker).