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This citadel thing doesn't look that great to me anymore

First post
Author
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#21 - 2016-08-29 12:18:04 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea.

I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.



I. e. The goal is to remove player owned starbases. And other options like research agents (I haven't forgotten that little thing), and so on.

Maybe the new structures will replace all the functions of what was removed (but how I hate the idea of a new citadels structure spawning random datacores instead of having my agents), but most of them aren't aimed to single players or small groups. They are mean to to be a tool for larger groups.

So, thanks for nothing.
Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. It is always surprising how CCP seem to dislike that demographic of its players.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#22 - 2016-08-29 12:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
But you cant do much alone here. This is not a single player game where you can have powers of a god.

Here you have to deal with others.
That is the underlying cause to many issues players have with EVE and other MMOGames.
While I play alone for the most time, I dont really mind interaction with others, even if its only finding a way to not get killed by them.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-08-29 13:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:


So, thanks for nothing.
Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. It is always surprising how CCP seem to dislike that demographic of its players.


But you can play alone (and many are doing that without problems), there are of course consequences of making that choice, as there should be in a multiplayer sandbox game IMO. So live with them, and stop expecting special treatment for choosing a limiting and often more challenging playstyle.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-08-29 13:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Knowledgeminer wrote:
I thought citadels were the best change introduced to the game since I started playing it, but not anymore.

I'm sure there is some fun in citadel owners fighting for market dominance and trying to destroy one another, but from the standpoint of a simple user of them, having to deal with market services suddently becoming unavailable every now and then because a citadel is destroyed or the owner simply can't or doesn't want to keep it running anymore is no fun at all, rather just another huge waste of time...

This game looks great, but the feeling that for anything I want to do I have to waste a lot of time dealing with issues and doing other things I really don't want to do is burning me out...


So you are saying that by getting a higher reward (lower taxes), you also encounter more risk (being locked out, citadel being blown up etc.)? This seems to fit with the overall philosophy of EVE IMO. You still have the ability to use a npc station, and get rid of all the trouble. Before someone complains about that the higher taxes ruins everything in npc stations, then notice how all that changed in jita is that difference between buy and sell orders have increased, but the profit is mostly the same. So the market just adjusted.


If you are burning out (because you chose to engage in citadel trading for higher profit out of your free will, instead of earning less with something you can handle), take a break from EVE. I have done it before. It helped me at least.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Solecist Project
#25 - 2016-08-29 13:27:28 UTC
Let's all not forget that citadels are meant as dockable structures for NewSpace.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Jacques d'Orleans
#26 - 2016-08-29 13:35:28 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility.



That's a pretty good idea, New Eden surely has a great demand on "those certain" holoreels.
Solecist Project
#27 - 2016-08-29 13:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility.



That's a pretty good idea, New Eden surely has a great demand on "those certain" holoreels.

I remember some rather odd person.

He advertised x-rated holoreels, which can only be bought via contracts.

He sold me 10 for the price of eight, 40ish million isk.
He even delivered them.

Totally useless, but we both found it fun and it made his day. :D

And anyone thinking it's a waste of isk: no poor, please. Thanks.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#28 - 2016-08-29 14:17:44 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea.

I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.


Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen.

This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2016-08-29 14:33:34 UTC
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea.

I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.


Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen.

This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer.


After Citadels can replace all the required functionality, is what they've said in the past. There is no hard and fast timetable.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#30 - 2016-08-29 14:38:43 UTC
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea.

I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.


Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen.

This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer.
Every single time since CCP started to even mention Citadels, when someone asked about the future plans for POS's they gave, and are still giving, an answer that comes down to: "well we don't know yet for sure"

The only thing we know, and the only thing CCP has stated until now (and CCP Darwins post is no exception to that) is that POS's will most probably be removed at some point in the future.

I have no problem whatsoever with that answer. Two things you need when playing EvE: Patience and grains of salt the size of mountains to go with CCP's future plans...Big smile

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......

Solecist Project
#31 - 2016-08-29 14:42:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea.

I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.


Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen.

This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer.


After Citadels can replace all the required functionality, is what they've said in the past. There is no hard and fast timetable.

Uhm... they said they'll phase out at the end of this year.

That changed?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Knowledgeminer
Oriens Vis
#32 - 2016-08-29 14:43:34 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
So you are saying that by getting a higher reward (lower taxes), you also encounter more risk (being locked out, citadel being blown up etc.)? This seems to fit with the overall philosophy of EVE IMO. You still have the ability to use a npc station, and get rid of all the trouble. Before someone complains about that the higher taxes ruins everything in npc stations, then notice how all that changed in jita is that difference between buy and sell orders have increased, but the profit is mostly the same. So the market just adjusted.


If you are burning out (because you chose to engage in citadel trading for higher profit out of your free will, instead of earning less with something you can handle), take a break from EVE. I have done it before. It helped me at least.


Not exactly. If I knew CCP wants both market systems to coexist indefinitely and that NPC broker fees will be kept the way they're now, then yes, NPC stations would be the best option for most of my market orders and the additional cost would be worth the lack of trouble. I would place market orders at citadels in some particular cases only and wouldn't mind much if the service was unreliable in those cases, as it would only cost me a small amount of ISK but no significant waste of time, which is what really annoys me.

The problem is that I was (and still am) under the impression that CCP wants to gradually move most, if not all, player market activity away from NPC stations and into citadels, by gradually increasing the NPC broker fees if necessary, so I started doing that move myself when and where appropriate and liked it at first, but have found it to end up being an annoying experience.

And yes, I've also taken a break in the past and will definitely take another now, maybe just log in occasionally to check a few things.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2016-08-29 14:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups.

If your concern is that new structures (including, but not limited to, Citadels) leave a potential gap for small groups in a future world without player-owned starbases, my suggestion would be to post in the comment threads of structure-related dev blogs or structure-related feedback threads and raise the concern. Or, as an alternative, you can contact a CSM member and ask them to speak up for you. (I realize these concerns have been raised before, by the way, but there's no harm in letting the team know that it's still an active issue.)

You can count on there being more of these dev blogs, feedback threads, and CSM discussions with our developers before any major change like removing player-owned starbases.

Graabeerd Khagah wrote:
This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer.

I would say that "we don't know yet" is the fullest, most honest answer there could be, if we don't know yet.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-08-29 15:11:36 UTC
Two bits of POS functionality should be coming to the new deployable structures this year.

Industrial Arrays will be "Fall 2016"
http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/fall/
I assume these will have bonuses to manufacturing and research, maybe refining as well.

Drilling Platforms will be "Winter 2016"
http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/winter/
I assume these will support moon goo extraction and perhaps some other methods of wealth generation like increasing the value of asteroids and PI in the system or something.

Replacement for POS features like jump bridges and cyno beacons have not been discussed yet that I know of.
Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-08-29 15:22:55 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:

Replacement for POS features like jump bridges and cyno beacons have not been discussed yet that I know of.


Honestly, there's no reason those can't become service modules off of Citadels, or eve a separate deployable structure. I don't see that as really holding up the removal of POSes in any significant fashion.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#36 - 2016-08-29 18:27:10 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility.


You wouldn't steal a hologram.


This is New Eden. I would steal my own mother's cremated ashes, if I could make an isk off of it.



Finally!
Someone who plays Eve and is honest Big smile

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#37 - 2016-08-29 21:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Nana Skalski wrote:
But you cant do much alone here. This is not a single player game where you can have powers of a god.

Here you have to deal with others.
That is the underlying cause to many issues players have with EVE and other MMOGames.
While I play alone for the most time, I dont really mind interaction with others, even if its only finding a way to not get killed by them.



There is a big difference between interacting with others or being in a small corp while having options to do your own things at the same time and, instead, having to be in a structure big enough to support the kind of gameplay that this vision of the game try to impose.

Take the idea of removing the research agents and replacing them with a structure in a citadel.

Current situation: you do it by yourself, for yourself and sell the result or use it.

The future version, if implemented as depicted a few months ago:
- the corp pay for a citadel upgrade that spawns random datacores;
- those datacores can be pilfered;
- someone must defend them;
- no idea of what will be the effect of the skills we have trained, probably the corp will have to give a roles to a member, something like a research manager (a very incompetent one if the result can be pilfered with ease):

An enhancement to my gameplay? Not for sure.
An enhancement to my corp gameplay (not so small, 88 people) or alliance? Seeing how few day the bounty enhancing structure was left active before deciding ti was more an hassle than useful, I doubt it.

Moon mining? We will get a nwe deplyable structure with no or very little defense capability.

Industry? Maybe in a citadel or maybe a separate structure with little defense capability.

And so on.

CCP want more assets that we will have to defend, but that mean having people active 23/7 and standing fleets capable to fight most threats. I.e. big structures. Structures that will fall as soon as the CEO/Directors get tired or bored.

Essentially most players will be replaceable ants.

CCP goal seem to be a game where people want to resub every few years to see the changes, but where people aren't meant to stay for very long on each after resubbing.

sero Hita wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:


So, thanks for nothing.
Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. It is always surprising how CCP seem to dislike that demographic of its players.


But you can play alone (and many are doing that without problems), there are of course consequences of making that choice, as there should be in a multiplayer sandbox game IMO. So live with them, and stop expecting special treatment for choosing a limiting and often more challenging playstyle.



Special treatment like not having the currently existing options removed?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#38 - 2016-08-30 06:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Seeing how people dont have time for anything, because they want it "right now" (instant gratification), or with no effort (afk), or both, i think EVE is an old dinosaur that is climbing its own evolution branch, occasionally aquiring some trashy genetic code from the mainstream games (microtransactions).

T-rex is on the evolutional rampage.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2016-08-30 08:35:41 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Seeing how people dont have time for anything, because they want it "right now" (instant gratification), or with no effort (afk), or both, i think EVE is an old dinosaur that is climbing its own evolution branch, occasionally aquiring some trashy genetic code from the mainstream games (microtransactions).

T-rex is on the evolutional rampage.

Nice analogy portraying Eve as an old Dinosaur. And we all know what happened to the Dinosaurs, right ?

They became extinct.

Blink



DMC
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#40 - 2016-08-30 08:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Seeing how people dont have time for anything, because they want it "right now" (instant gratification), or with no effort (afk), or both, i think EVE is an old dinosaur that is climbing its own evolution branch, occasionally aquiring some trashy genetic code from the mainstream games (microtransactions).

T-rex is on the evolutional rampage.

Nice analogy portraying Eve as an old Dinosaur. And we all know what happened to the Dinosaurs, right ?

They became extinct.

Blink



DMC

Not really all of them.
Birds: only clade of dinosaurs to have survived the K–Pg extinction event. Source.
That means EVE can evolve into its own niche even more, and stay for a long time, if CCP will do it right.
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