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Why does CCP hate freighters so much

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Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-08-29 10:41:12 UTC
So... you make a capital damage mod hultank something...

and you make Freighters.... capital ships.... the only ships that cannot use capital mod that is more or less Specifically DESIGNED to save them from gankers.

Fix in next pach.

Pronto.

That IS an order.


Give carebears a fighting chance.... for CONCORD to do their job.... WHAT ARE WE PAYING THEM FOR ANYWAYS!!!!!!
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-08-29 10:51:49 UTC
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
So... you make a capital damage mod hultank something...

and you make Freighters.... capital ships.... the only ships that cannot use capital mod that is more or less Specifically DESIGNED to save them from gankers.

Fix in next pach.

Pronto.

That IS an order.


Give carebears a fighting chance.... for CONCORD to do their job.... WHAT ARE WE PAYING THEM FOR ANYWAYS!!!!!!





Retribution. We pay them for retribution.

Also, no. Freighters are fine. A freighter is not a combat ship, and it shouldn't have capital combat ship levels of tank. Learn to play smarter, not harder.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2016-08-29 10:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
No, I rather keep freighters as they are. You know, if they were to turn into actual capitals with rigs, more slots and more fitting resources, you would have to fit them with:
- all sorts of things to recover the massive loss in raw HP they would suffer
- all sorts of things to recover the massive loss of cargo volume, which reduce their HP even further
- all sorts of things but still suffer from a mediocre hybrid between some tank and some cargo (still less than current values) for a massively increased price tag.

Considering this, I think freighters are fine as they are. More choices are not good in their case, they would just cause more annoyance.

So, next time, THINK before you give out orders.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-08-29 10:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
capital mod that is more or less Specifically DESIGNED to save them from gankers.



It's built so you can survive a DD because they removed combat re-fitting something that was the only tool for capital pilots to be able to tank them by swapping to fully resist the DDs damage. Nothing a freighter needs to worry about



EHE would not just make you harder to gank in HS it would make it impossible in many systems as the EHE lasts longer than it takes CONCORD to get there.

besides that if you use the tools you already have and fly smart it is plenty hard to get killed. in all my years in this game the only freighters i have ever lost were to WT or in LS

now i wont lie when they changed the base structure resist it did really make me think they don't care about freighter balance but only in regards to within the class. What that change did was take most of the choice from what freighter to fly it used to be

Caldari > most cargo(what is tank)
Galnete > 2nd best cargo 2nd best tank
amarr > best tank
Minmatar fastest

the change removed all reason to fly amarr and pushed the galente freighter leagues above the rest as it still had the second best cargo but now it also had the best tank

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-08-29 11:01:25 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

So, next time, THINK before you give out orders.


You're asking for rather a lot, don't you think Rivr.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Wimzy Chent-Shi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-08-29 11:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Wimzy Chent-Shi
Remember that patch that gave all hulls 33% ressist and freighters free ehp boost?
I would check facts.
However, if formulated in a less egoistic and infantyle manner the idea has some valid grounds for a discussion:

We have a mod that would reward freighters for being on their toes through near invulnerability for a minute.
It would be extremely op in high sec circumstances and gankers would not really be able to "bait it out" since one would use it only after reaching structure. And ofc the mod originally intended to counter doomsdays has no reasonable place in highsec.

So how do we nerf that so that the wolf and crybaby remain pleased?

I would implement a freighter version with ridiculous cap requirement to cycle.
That way the gankers can neut little cap down to prevent it and frequent cap draining warps would limit the use aswell.
It should be "just" runnable with lvl5 skills cap (hi boosters, welcome implants), so that fitting it would enforce cap mods, which in turn would have to accompany it (being fitable to freighters).

I would probably advise against a meta-inducing module.

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016
Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-08-29 11:14:32 UTC
IF YOU can fit normal damage control you can fit this:

Read explanation of item. No logic (yea i know this is eve... there logic goes and dies in developes dravers... but still... )
Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-08-29 11:18:40 UTC
Wimzy Chent-Shi wrote:
Remember that patch that gave all hulls 33% ressist and freighters free ehp boost?
I would check facts.
However, if formulated in a less egoistic and infantyle manner the idea has some valid grounds for a discussion:

We have a mod that would reward freighters for being on their toes through near invulnerability for a minute.
It would be extremely op in high sec circumstances and gankers would not really be able to "bait it out" since one would use it only after reaching structure. And ofc the mod originally intended to counter doomsdays has no reasonable place in highsec.

So how do we nerf that so that the wolf and crybaby remain pleased?

I would implement a freighter version with ridiculous cap requirement to cycle.
That way the gankers can neut little cap down to prevent it and frequent cap draining warps would limit the use aswell.
It should be "just" runnable with lvl5 skills cap (hi boosters, welcome implants), so that fitting it would enforce cap mods, which in turn would have to accompany it (being fitable to freighters).

I would probably advise against a meta-inducing module.


They can still catch you on next wave... next system.... you have to repair the damd thing. Bear

There is no wolf there is no crybaby.... there is that thing.... where X isk = Y isk ship gets ganked.... this way we multiplie it... by a factor of 2.

Since is not just the price of the ship but the cargo also.... so its more like X isk freighter = 2*X isk to kill it
Solecist Project
#9 - 2016-08-29 11:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
So... you make a capital damage mod hultank something...

and you make Freighters.... capital ships.... the only ships that cannot use capital mod that is more or less Specifically DESIGNED to save them from gankers.

Fix in next pach.

Pronto.

That IS an order.


Give carebears a fighting chance.... for CONCORD to do their job.... WHAT ARE WE PAYING THEM FOR ANYWAYS!!!!!!

Look at this "person".

"That IS an order!"
Or else WHAT???
Are you going to cry loud so everyone hears you?


Oh mighty emperor, your wish is our command!
- no one ever


Buzz off and get some manners you child.
The amount of freighters getting ganked is irrelevant in relation to the amount of people fkying freighters.


If i see you in a freighter i will make you feel miserable.

Then try ordering ME around!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2016-08-29 11:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Fedo Otsolen wrote:


They can still catch you on next wave... next system.... you have to repair the damd thing. Bear



why exactly am i going to the next system and not just docking in this one?

maybe you really can't think when it comes to matters of self preservation

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#11 - 2016-08-29 11:31:39 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Fedo Otsolen wrote:


They can still catch you on next wave... next system.... you have to repair the damd thing. Bear



why exactly am i going to the next system and not just docking in this one?

maybe you really can't think when it comes to matters of self preservation


Did you know there are system in EvE with no stations?
Wimzy Chent-Shi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-08-29 11:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Wimzy Chent-Shi
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
Wimzy Chent-Shi wrote:
Remember that patch that gave all hulls 33% ressist and freighters free ehp boost?
I would check facts.
However, if formulated in a less egoistic and infantyle manner the idea has some valid grounds for a discussion:

We have a mod that would reward freighters for being on their toes through near invulnerability for a minute.
It would be extremely op in high sec circumstances and gankers would not really be able to "bait it out" since one would use it only after reaching structure. And ofc the mod originally intended to counter doomsdays has no reasonable place in highsec.

So how do we nerf that so that the wolf and crybaby remain pleased?

I would implement a freighter version with ridiculous cap requirement to cycle.
That way the gankers can neut little cap down to prevent it and frequent cap draining warps would limit the use aswell.
It should be "just" runnable with lvl5 skills cap (hi boosters, welcome implants), so that fitting it would enforce cap mods, which in turn would have to accompany it (being fitable to freighters).

I would probably advise against a meta-inducing module.


They can still catch you on next wave... next system.... you have to repair the damd thing. Bear

There is no wolf there is no crybaby.... there is that thing.... where X isk = Y isk ship gets ganked.... this way we multiplie it... by a factor of 2.

Since is not just the price of the ship but the cargo also.... so its more like X isk freighter = 2*X isk to kill it


#notMakingMyPlaystyleOPAtSomeoneElsesExpense
Making the run go twice essentialy doubles the possible value of goods as if suspecting the mod being fitted was not annoying enough. ... you have to scan the damn thing.
I understand getting ganked sucks and that both sides argue over who is more imbalanced. Considering you recently received a 1,33 multiplier you still seem to ignore. Safe way to transfer assets? Why? Have someone else do it. If it becomes a worse job you get paid more for "less" effort.
As stated before even this minor tweak wrecked the racial hull selection balancing enough.
What makes you priviliged to make them run twice (with all expenses) instead of you running twice (further risk reduction)?

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2016-08-29 11:47:36 UTC
Fedo Otsolen wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Fedo Otsolen wrote:


They can still catch you on next wave... next system.... you have to repair the damd thing. Bear



why exactly am i going to the next system and not just docking in this one?

maybe you really can't think when it comes to matters of self preservation


Did you know there are system in EvE with no stations?


yeah plenty but you can't balance a mod like this around only some systems.

and even then it is no issue

"there is a system sketchy system on my route I should BM mid way between the gates and put a mobile depo there"

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-08-29 12:25:40 UTC
He has a point. The way freighters are atm theyre worth ganking even when empty. There should be a reasonable cost but there is not. Take a look at Baltec1s last day of ganking in high - 14 frieghters ganked. 13 empty.

Stupid situation, my idea of each class of ship having specific resistance to smaller class guns would help.

A dessie shooting another dessie 100% damage, shooting a cruiser, 90%, battleship 70%, freighter 60% , etc etc.

Makes no sense atm battleship shooting frig 20% or less while frig shooting all bigger ships is 100.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2016-08-29 12:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Infinity Ziona wrote:
He has a point. The way freighters are atm theyre worth ganking even when empty. There should be a reasonable cost but there is not. Take a look at Baltec1s last day of ganking in high - 14 frieghters ganked. 13 empty.

Stupid situation, my idea of each class of ship having specific resistance to smaller class guns would help.

A dessie shooting another dessie 100% damage, shooting a cruiser, 90%, battleship 70%, freighter 60% , etc etc.

Makes no sense atm battleship shooting frig 20% or less while frig shooting all bigger ships is 100.



Bigger ships already have a better resistance to small ones.... they have more ehp and small ones have lower dps weapons


As for the part that doesn't make seance to you that is what makes it so in eve smaller ships can always have a place in the fight making every ship relevant (bigger isn't better) and then again small ships technically do 100% damage to big ones but not really


Say a frig has 10 dps and 20hp and fights another identical frig. Now he goes and fights a cruiser it has 20dps and 40hp. In this situation the frigate has had his dps effectively cut by 50% and his tank has been cut by up to 50% but in a way that feels more natural

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#16 - 2016-08-29 12:58:37 UTC
Freighters just got a huge tank buff for no reason...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#17 - 2016-08-29 13:17:51 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
He has a point. The way freighters are atm theyre worth ganking even when empty. There should be a reasonable cost but there is not. Take a look at Baltec1s last day of ganking in high - 14 frieghters ganked. 13 empty.
He plays the odds, and the odds are that the pilot of the freighter has made themselves easy to gank through their own choices and actions

Quote:
Stupid situation, my idea of each class of ship having specific resistance to smaller class guns would help.

A dessie shooting another dessie 100% damage, shooting a cruiser, 90%, battleship 70%, freighter 60% , etc etc.
The game engine doesn't give a damn about weapon size it cares about damage profiles, you're also completely discounting the fact that larger ships are inherently able to soak up much more damage than smaller ships.

Quote:
Makes no sense atm battleship shooting frig 20% or less while frig shooting all bigger ships is 100.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Battleship size weapons are limited by their mass and the mechanical stresses involved in moving them as to how fast they can tilt and turn, smaller weapons are not; basically a large weapon is slow and cumbersome which means that you don't use it against small rapidly moving targets, you use a smaller weapon that isn't so cumbersome to do that job. TL;DR Use the right tool for the job and the job gets easier.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lugh Crow-Slave
#18 - 2016-08-29 13:43:40 UTC
If we are going to get into realistic reasons for turret tracking can you also take a stab at missiles. I get the game play side of it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#19 - 2016-08-29 14:03:13 UTC
So why would it be different this time around?

Evil RatKid
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#20 - 2016-08-29 14:09:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
He has a point. The way freighters are atm theyre worth ganking even when empty. There should be a reasonable cost but there is not. Take a look at Baltec1s last day of ganking in high - 14 frieghters ganked. 13 empty.

Stupid situation, my idea of each class of ship having specific resistance to smaller class guns would help.

A dessie shooting another dessie 100% damage, shooting a cruiser, 90%, battleship 70%, freighter 60% , etc etc.

Makes no sense atm battleship shooting frig 20% or less while frig shooting all bigger ships is 100.

They dont get ganked because its worth it, they get ganked to make a point.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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