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I've said it before...Increasing New Player Interest.

Author
Zakks
CSR NAVY
Citizen's Star Republic
#21 - 2016-08-24 23:36:54 UTC
+1 overall to the op.

It is very important to distinguish between attraction and retention.

People are naturally attracted to the shinies, but will be retained due to the playability of the game.
We are seeing a good dose of shinies happening this year (good on you CCP) but still mired in some bad playability issues.

Making information current, easy to follow, and applicable to fast searching cannot be overstated for a game like Eve. I personally hate searching for anything Eve related due to the prevalence of old and out-dated information in the results. The OP has the right idea in wanting to make the searches relevant and current.
Mina Askold
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-08-25 00:03:13 UTC
so let me get this right you want player retention and people to stop hand holding but yet you do worse by blanket wars and camp choke points and hubs like the rest of the "L33T" pvpers in high sec? ....if you want a real fight come out of HS and pick a fight with a real set of pvpers......
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-08-25 00:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Mina Askold wrote:
so let me get this right you want player retention and people to stop hand holding but yet you do worse by blanket wars and camp choke points and hubs like the rest of the "L33T" pvpers in high sec? ....if you want a real fight come out of HS and pick a fight with a real set of pvpers......

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

This is not a thread about wardecs. If you want to complain about that, go start yet another thread on that topic. No need to crap this one up by descending into a wardecs are bad thread.

This is a different topic.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Mina Askold
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2016-08-25 00:21:17 UTC
i know what the thread is about I am pointing to the fact he wants to keep new players yet conducts game play that is totally counter to what he claims he wants....i am in a npc corp i have zero fear or complaint of wars
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-08-25 00:22:53 UTC
Mina Askold wrote:
i know what the thread is about I am pointing to the fact he wants to keep new players yet conducts game play that is totally counter to what he claims he wants....i am in a npc corp i have zero fear or complaint of wars

So, go start another thread where you can put all the evidence you have that objectively proves what you are saying.

Then discuss it to death there. After all, if that's so true it will be easy for everyone to agree with you.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#26 - 2016-08-25 00:52:31 UTC
Well I really believe they need to bring back Evelopedia.

I hate hearing about how great other sites are. None of them have the lore bits that Evelopedia did. Not all of us measure our playtime in ISK per hour, which imo any other site was better for anyway. If that's your thing, cool.

I read a TON about Eve Online before playing and mostly was through Evelopedia and the lore writeups. When I was considering trying Eve Online, I was watching a video about someone carebearing some Blood Raider site and I had Evelopedia open and several tabs from the links right in the article they had. Who's the Blood Raiders, Amarr, the Amarrian homeworld, history of New Eden, Genesis (region)?

It was an official site and it had more than just how many rats and approximate loot to calculate your ISK per hour.

@lunettelulu7

Malakye Appleton
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-08-25 02:20:03 UTC
Lets say I setup a new Wiki type site that I hosted on my own server and I were willing to provide accounts to serious guide authors to publish new guides and tutorials, how many of you would be willing to participate?

You would be able to add your own Referral codes to the bottom of your articles.

I would actively work towards getting your articles ranked and you would potentially make some nice rewards in new player sign-ups. I do SEO for major real estate brokerages and mortgage banks. Your time wouldn't be wasted.

If you might be interested in contributing to this effort, please reply to this thread with your interest and some topics of interest you would write guides about.

If I see there is enough interest, I will buy an aged domain name and get a site setup.

Something really needs to be done and it may be up to the Eve community to do something about it.

Living the dream, one tear at a time...

Serene Repose
#28 - 2016-08-25 02:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Malakye Appleton wrote:
Lets say I setup a new Wiki type site that I hosted on my own server and I were willing to provide accounts to serious guide authors to publish new guides and tutorials, how many of you would be willing to participate?
I love to see someone learn from experience. This is what the original post should have been. When I read the OP my thought was, "Once again, someone wants 'them' to do the labor-intensive, highly-intricate, deeply complicated job." It's always "they" should blah blah blah.

My response was going to be to explain that those original "blogs" (at the time blogs didn't exist, fancy that) were inspired by the game and produced by individuals who took a great deal of effort on their own to generate third-party content to celebrate (yes celebrate) this most fabulous game. Time has passed. People do actually get old. Costs on the internet rise. Lots of factors have caused that original cadre of folks to move to other things.

What we've lacked is a new effort from the new blood. There's two or three people who are fonts of posts of nothing but BS on this forum whose typing skills and the time they put in to farm likes could be better spent doing what they say "they" need to do. But, hey. The Entitled Generation is upon us, and rather than put the effort in themselves, they'd rather insist an imaginary group of people called "They" do everything for them, then cry when it doesn't happen.

So, I am so heartened to see you, OP, realize this mid-stride and change your tack. I'll be contacting you in-game with the information you requested. There, time allowing you, we can further discuss this project - in terms of getting it done.

Well done.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-08-25 03:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Malakye Appleton wrote:
Lets say I setup a new Wiki type site that I hosted on my own server and I were willing to provide accounts to serious guide authors to publish new guides and tutorials, how many of you would be willing to participate?

Yes, on a willingness to firmly believe you are 100% genuine.

There are a couple of thoughts I initially had when I read your post:

1. Great that someone is willing to do something and not just hurf blurf

2. Would a more effective approach be to donate your skills towards improving an existing resource like eve-uni wiki, rather than creating another. It is already established, has systems in place and is referenced often by CCP now, although its information is also outdated. Perhaps working with eve-uni to improve/migrate to something new (assuming that are willing), would be a more efficient use of energy, as opposed to starting from scratch again; and

3. Assuming 2 isn't the best approach, then I think it would be totally fair for you, as far as CCPs policies allow, to be able to cover the cost of the server and admin time, through ads and/or ISK donations as other sites do. It would also however be good to know up front what your intentions are on those issues are, since ultimately this is an out of game endeavour where contributors will be putting time and effort into building something of value that you will own. No problem at all from me that the value of the information should be able to cover costs, just would be good to know up front what the intent is, if anything aside from providing information to new players becomes a goal.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Hendrix Foster
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-08-25 03:32:06 UTC
For what it's worth,
I've only been playing like 9 months so can be considered a new player really. As for me, I subscribed after playing for a week on trial. Yes, I had heard of the game and of all the huge battles that make the news every now and then plus had been meaning to check the game out for a while. But I also subbed without knowing anything really and I like the way I've had to research and fend for myself mostly in order to progress and make ISK.

What has retained me is the sheer possibilities, challenges, various activities and complexities of the game and regarding how absorbed you can get into it with such a massive amount of content. I have not come across such a complexly satisfying game and I really like it that it is as close to real life as you can pretty much get in a game.

It's a huge challenge of a game and you are playing with/against some very smart and experienced folks in general. I've learned plenty in 9 months but have come to realize that I've merely scratched the surface so far.

So many more things to do in the game and just have to get organized to do them.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-08-25 04:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Chopper Rollins
Malakye Appleton wrote:

No, no, no.

I'm looking at this whole thing from a marketing perspective.


Uh oh...

Malakye Appleton wrote:
Its just like real world Freemasonry of which I am a member. You can read a ton of stuff online, but if you want to learn the real deal, you have to learn from the inside.


*METALLIC LAUGHTER INTENSIFIES*

AAAAnd we're back.

The only things i've looked for real outside help on were youtube clips on probing, back in the bad old days when you had to be good, missions (truly helpful) and PI. The rest was my application and practice.

Eve doesn't need a great slew of guides, that would only enable the solos that are basically hisec belt rats. Good groups run their own wikis, let the pressure to team up with others remain.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Malakye Appleton
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-08-25 04:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Malakye Appleton
My intentions are pretty straight forward honestly.
If I can build a new medium whereby passionate Eve pilots can contribute their knowledge and experience to new players in an effort to draw in more pilots and keep them, then it's worth it.

I've been playing pretty hard core now for about 8 or 9 months and have done a great deal (not related to null sec, however) and I've simply fallen in love with Eve. When I began playing and started getting serious, I thought having an alt account was crazy. Now, I have 3 accounts and 9 characters injected for specialized efforts.

I play with a lot of people who have played for 8, 10, 12 years and I think to myself, I'm just getting started and what if I want to play for the next 12 years? Will there be enough players still around to keep things interesting? To keep Eve going strong?

If I can help ensure that answer is yes, then I'm in.

Sure, maybe the site will offer some banner ads for ISK in time or something to cover expenses and maintenance but I'm not counting on any of that. I'm willing to do it because I can and for the love of the game.

Bout it really.

Only question I have is whether the community would prefer a news style site with images or a knowledge base style site?

Living the dream, one tear at a time...

Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#33 - 2016-08-25 09:55:06 UTC
Whilst it is a knee jerk reaction to go to "we need to focus on attracting new players", this is in fact very costly and the alternative is to further engage loyal customers.

CCP just needs to ensure it has good game play. This, in my opinion, is not the case. The game play, especially PVP has become dull and predictable.

Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-08-25 10:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
Hendrix Foster wrote:
For what it's worth,
I've only been playing like 9 months so can be considered a new player really. As for me, I subscribed after playing for a week on trial. Yes, I had heard of the game and of all the huge battles that make the news every now and then plus had been meaning to check the game out for a while. But I also subbed without knowing anything really and I like the way I've had to research and fend for myself mostly in order to progress and make ISK.

What has retained me is the sheer possibilities, challenges, various activities and complexities of the game and regarding how absorbed you can get into it with such a massive amount of content. I have not come across such a complexly satisfying game and I really like it that it is as close to real life as you can pretty much get in a game.

It's a huge challenge of a game and you are playing with/against some very smart and experienced folks in general. I've learned plenty in 9 months but have come to realize that I've merely scratched the surface so far.

So many more things to do in the game and just have to get organized to do them.


same thing happened to me. was kinda lazy to find the words to explain it. Cool
"What has retained me is the sheer possibilities, challenges, various activities and complexities of the game and regarding how absorbed you can get into it with such a massive amount of content."

infos about the game are not a problem, no explanations whatsoever? who cares?
OP you're missing the point. and not by 1 cm but from miles.

*just noticed how i switched from ISU to USA, now i'm worried*
Memphis Baas
#35 - 2016-08-25 12:23:58 UTC
Malakye Appleton wrote:
My intentions are pretty straight forward honestly.
If I can build a new medium whereby passionate Eve pilots can contribute their knowledge and experience to new players in an effort to draw in more pilots and keep them, then it's worth it.


How exactly is your new site better than the current sites? Eve University, the various news and guides sites affiliated with the major alliances, or even the Newbie Q/A forum?

If you're going to say because it's made/hosted by YOU, and thus will only have quality content, then thanks for the insult to everyone else who's put in effort thus far, and let me ask you a follow-up question:

How exactly will your site be better than the "passionate EVE pilots" who put their passion to work in-game and create a large corp or alliance out of nothing, and take a whole bunch of recruits to the limits of what fun this game can be? BNI for example, or the more recent alliance-funded newbie groups (Karma Fleet, Pandemic Horde, etc). Or the in-game live action tutorials held by Eve Uni or Red vs. Blue or the various other groups that put effort into the game.
Memphis Baas
#36 - 2016-08-25 12:31:51 UTC
You're not going to be able to remove old content from the Internet. It's there.

You want the player base to redouble its efforts to advertise the awesomeness of the game, but we're already doing it, at the best achievable rate that we can give. It's unfortunate that 95% of the players are only interested in playing the game, and not in any extra effort, but that's the case everywhere, with all games.

And you're not providing any sort of incentive to actually doing anything more. Just a rallying cry, followed by a bunch of quality restrictions to those who follow your cry.

And finally, best PVP'ers, best FC's, best strategic alliance-level leaders, best explorers, tacklers, PVE'ers, etc... aren't necessarily the best teachers. So if there's a quality problem that you see, well, that's the way things are.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#37 - 2016-08-25 12:39:16 UTC
Actually the last person I told to try EVE (in RL)...I told them to get through the tutorial for an hour or so just for a basic start and get back to me and I'd help them get going further...

I came back a couple hours later to find that they had managed to close the tutorial without doing any of it and were fumbling around the universe doing insane and random tasks for the "Opportunity Fairy" who kept popping up telling them to do things...

I'm not saying CCP needs to fix their tutorial - but honestly it might help if they toned down the opportunity garbage or even just turned it off until the new players get through the ****ing tutorial....

I mean I literally found them derping around looking for "an anomaly" in low-sec space when they didn't even know how to dock or board their own rookie ship... With a big pop-up on their screen demanding that they do so (which they angrily pointed at to justify their behaviour)....

It is kind of an anti-tutorial at this point... (Or was as of ~8 months ago when this happened - I'll be honest I haven't recommended that any new people try the game since then)

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#38 - 2016-08-25 12:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Hendrix Foster wrote:
For what it's worth,
I've only been playing like 9 months so can be considered a new player really. As for me, I subscribed after playing for a week on trial. Yes, I had heard of the game and of all the huge battles that make the news every now and then plus had been meaning to check the game out for a while. But I also subbed without knowing anything really and I like the way I've had to research and fend for myself mostly in order to progress and make ISK.

What has retained me is the sheer possibilities, challenges, various activities and complexities of the game and regarding how absorbed you can get into it with such a massive amount of content. I have not come across such a complexly satisfying game and I really like it that it is as close to real life as you can pretty much get in a game.

It's a huge challenge of a game and you are playing with/against some very smart and experienced folks in general. I've learned plenty in 9 months but have come to realize that I've merely scratched the surface so far.

So many more things to do in the game and just have to get organized to do them.


Welcome to EVE Hendrix Foster, wish I could clone more of you (and forcibly biomass some of what's here already Twisted ).


The part that I highlighted up there, THAT is the important thing. It's why I say that all this talk of attracting people and lowering barriers and offering rewards and 'fixing pve' and nerfing (insert whatever bad thing people want nerfed this week) and improving documentation doesn't matter AT ALL.

What does matter is individual people coming to the game, finding that they LIKE "fending for themselves" and tackling steep challenges and then grouping up with others and are willing to accept the bumps and bruises that come with that.

You can't teach someone that, you can't entice it in people for whom it doesn't already exist. EVE players are born, not made. You have to recruit people like this from the start, and frankly, CCP does a not great job of this as they seem to mostly advertise in MMO circles when most MMO gamers want the opposite of what EVE provides. Most MMO players want something that amounts to a "slightly more interactive form of movie", something that tells them a story. In EVE you have to make a story.

CCP needs to attract storymakers, not people who want to be along for the ride.
Ramona Taggart
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-08-25 14:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona Taggart
Unclear or nonexistent documentation, vague tutorials, and requiring players to consult outside guides for basic gameplay questions (e.g. What is FW? What are career agents? How do I fit my ship?) should not count as tackling the game's steep challenges.

Yea, sure, a defense of this is that it's a "sandbox game" or "EVE has always been challenging...HTFU", but I fail to see how providing clearer information to new players goes against everything EVE stands for. It's not even "hand-holding" either. Hand-holding would be, "Here's 25 million ISK and a ship that makes you invulnerable from other players for 24 hours. Get out there pilot!"

There is value in the belief that providing way too much instruction hinders creativity and outside the box thinking, but giving players nothing can be equally as damaging. And dismissing the value of scaffolding knowledge and anchored instruction can be even worse.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-08-25 14:08:03 UTC
Ramona Taggart wrote:
There is value in the belief that providing way too much instruction hinders creativity and outside the box thinking, but giving players nothing can be equally as damaging.


i'll give you a cookie Cool