Ships & Modules

I don't know about the Nightmare, but I have flown the Succubus and Phantasm. They make decent DPS ships of their class. That is, the Succubus functions as an AF that is actually Y1, and the Phantasm functions as a short range HAC (like the Deimos) that is actually T1. This distinction makes them useful for FW plexes and other "class-limited" areas.

The reason they are widely viewed as underpowered is how they relate to other ships:

The Succubus does AF levels of damage, but has a worse tank and costs two times as much as an AF. It could use a little more damage or speed or something to make it more than a giant expensive paperweight.

The Phantasm is functionally the same as a HAC (tank, damage, speed, etc), but battlecruisers cost half as much and do more damage, tank more, and in some cases, are faster and more agile. The reason Phantasms aren't used is the same reason short range HACs aren't used: for the same price, you could fly two short range battlecruisers. That is just a general balance problem with battlecruisers that really should be addressed.

Each of the other pirate faction lineups have some sort of "unique perk" that makes it worth flying them compared to other ships of similar value. Angels? Fast as hell, and good falloff and tracking. Blood Raiders? Amazing webs and neuts. Guristas? Amazing tanks and too many drones. Serpentis? All of the damage ever, speed, plus awesome webs. The Sansha bonuses are just "excellent at straight up combat", and they really can't compete with AFs/battlecruisers on that front. Even the Nightmare doesn't do that much damage.

That said, I should mention that the Sansha line of ships sports extraordinary laser tracking. As a frigate pilot, I have learned to avoid the reaction of "ha ha, that ship has Heavy Pulse Laser IIs, I can just orbit it at 500m and it won't touch me". That reaction leads to horrible death. It's not enough to redeem the bad reputation of Sansha ships, but it is at least a small reason to fly them. "Deceptively good laser tracking" doesn't sound awesome as "webs with 90% speed reduction" though.

Indeed, and tbh you'd be surprised at how many people don't realize just how bad of an idea trying to duck under the guns of an ashimmu with an AF is. It has to be among the funniest things in eve. And that is what the phantasm lacks, that distinct capability that separates it from everything else. It's just another gunboat and it isn't a particularly good one either. It's just average.

I'm not sure what I'd change on the Phantasm to make it *different* to everything else though. The only thing I can think of is something that would really likely end up with some unpopular opinion. ie a big bonus specifically to using Beam lasers instead of Pulse. As it stands I don't think I've ever seen medium beam lasers used on anything except a long range sniper Zealot when Pulse/Scorch can't quite cope!

Grabbing a frigate with an Ashimmu is so much fun :D

More cap, another low, +2 light drones/bay. Oh, and enough fitting to actually use the slots. Perhaps a slight speed/handling tweak.

What would make the Succubus/Phantasm interesting as hell would be a 100% cap use bonus on those lasers... :)

-Liang

Ed: And maybe +1 turret. :D

No! It's just you...

Heh, I dunno about replacing the damage bonus with a 20% cap bonus. It is a pirate cruiser afterall!

-Liang

Could be fun in combination with some other changes!

I'd rather an extra low slot, significantly more speed and better cap though!

Think of the bitching if it had 3 bonuses. Add a turret and remove the 5% damage bonus (for an effective overall 17% damage increase), and add the cap usage bonus instead.

Aaaaand posted in F&I. The [url] tag appears to be broken, so have a short URL: http://goo.gl/rUAkx. Reduced the cap bonus to 15% rather than 20% because from what I know of CCP systems, capfree lasers would cause the buttons in station to appear upside down, and the overview to turn pink when you are being sensor disrupted.