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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Training ship masteries and ship orbiting question?

Author
Eternalis Imortalin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-08-20 21:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternalis Imortalin
For example I am flying the Ishkur and when I view evemon it shows the mastery levels 1-5 I believe. Is it a must to train these skills to complete all these masteries? Kind of confused here lol. Do these skills make you more adept to flying said ship?


OK now on to my last question. As a small ship if I am fighting larger ships that have a hard time tracking me I set orbit for 500 do I use afterburner too to make my ship orbit faster? Also even though I have my orbit set at 500 I see that I normally orbit at 800-1000 give out take and that's without using the AB. It's this normal? Anyway to get it exactly 500?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-08-20 21:12:29 UTC
masteries are like what certificates used to be: a rough guide on relevant skills on a ship and has no real importance in the game.

Orbiting something depends on your ship turning speed or "agility" smaller ships generally have better agility and therefore can turn faster and maintain a tighter orbit.

If you want to orbit closer you will have to reduce your speed
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-08-21 00:18:02 UTC
If you are talking about PvP using orbit in PvP is typically not a good idea. Good PvPers know how to exploit the game's auto orbit mechanics and force your ship to do what they want it to.

Other than that like Tsukino said agility figures into the equation. How close you should orbit, how fast you should orbit are all dependent upon circumstances: What you are flying, what they are flying, how you are fit, what you are trying to do.

Typically if you are trying to sig radius tank then you want to keep your transversal velocity high enough that whoever is shooting at you can't land many good hits while making sure that you are going slow enough for you to be able to land damage.

If you are flying an autocannon boat you typically want to be about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way into your falloff just as an example. Different weapons systems work differently. But my point is that your distance is based mostly on the range of the modules that you use while your speed is based mostly on tracking ability of guns, either yours or your opponents or both.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2016-08-21 04:56:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Eternalis Imortalin wrote:
For example I am flying the Ishkur and when I view evemon it shows the mastery levels 1-5 I believe. Is it a must to train these skills to complete all these masteries? Kind of confused here lol. Do these skills make you more adept to flying said ship?

Masteries are a "guideline" to being proficient at a ship.

However, do not take them too seriously.

The Masteries are not updated by the DEVs very often and some of the skills they demand are... frivolous.

For example: With the Merlin class frigate, I am only have Mastery Level 3. This is purely because I have the shield amplification skills at level 3.
Having these skills does not mean I cannot use the ship to its full effective potential. In fact... the shield amplification skills are not really needed unless I am using specific modules... which normally do not see a lot of use.

Eternalis Imortalin wrote:
As a small ship if I am fighting larger ships that have a hard time tracking me I set orbit for 500 do I use afterburner too to make my ship orbit faster? Also even though I have my orbit set at 500 I see that I normally orbit at 800-1000 give out take and that's without using the AB. It's this normal? Anyway to get it exactly 500?

This orbiting behavior is normal.

There is some technical babble involved... but I will spare you.

Basically... the faster you go, the more your agility suffers.

This is compounded by the fact that propulsion modules add extra mass to your ship when activated... decreasing your agility further.

The only way to achieve a "pure" 500m orbit is by being slower and/or exceedingly agile... neither of which is optimal for various reasons (makes you easier to hit and gimps your ship's fit... respectively).


The long and short of it is this; do not worry too much about it. There are a few cases where it actually does matter (see: drone ships and/or under heavy webifier effects and/or scram kiting), but operating at close range with an Afterburner and experiencing some orbiting "drift" is normal.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#5 - 2016-08-21 16:52:40 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
If you are talking about PvP using orbit in PvP is typically not a good idea. Good PvPers know how to exploit the game's auto orbit mechanics and force your ship to do what they want it to.

Depends on the situation IMO. With a big enough ship speed differential it's very difficult for a larger ship to do much to hit you when you are right on top of them orbiting. Some people claim you should always manually pilot but in practice it's usually better to manage your heat and tank and only adjust your trajectory as needed while brawling.

Where manual piloting vs. keep at range/orbit really comes into play is with mwd kiting ships where transversal is crucial because you can't take advantage of short range to ruin your opponent's tracking. It's a lot easier to slingshot and break orbits at high speeds because your ship's agility becomes a limiting factor.

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Titan's Lament

Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-08-22 10:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
Mastery is a rough guide at best, but outright wrong in some cases, especially at level V. For example many ships at Level V mastery will list the 4 Shield Compensation skills at level V. But these skills (mostly) only effect the relevant Resistance Amp modules (an uncommonly used module) and if you haven't got them fitted to your ship, the skills do nothing for you.

As a rule of thumb I tend to consider Level III mastery is fairly accurate and should be blindly trained. After that study the benefits and cherry pick which skills you think should be trained higher.

Orbiting a larger ship is a perfectly valid tactic, in fact a must use tactic in many cases especially at brawling range. If you are 'under his guns', meaning he can't track and hit you, then you shouldn't use your AB as you will be reducing your own DPS due to tracking issues. However, it's very situational. For example if you are part of a gang, your DPS might not be important, keeping alive and tackle on is your role, so keep the AB burning. If you are part of a gang, you might think you are under his guns, but in fact it is just he is shooting someone else and that includes not just shooting, but webbing and target painting. Also keeping under his guns doesn't keep you under his drones and again they may not switch onto you until later. So when in a gang, often your priority is to keep yourself alive. But if solo your priority is often to burn him down as fast as possible before help arrives, so you would engage in more riskier tactics such as switching off your AB and even reducing your ship velocity.

The range you orbit at also effects his tracking, the closer you are, the better for tracking negation purposes. But the orbit you order is never achieved, as centrafugal forces throw you out, more the faster you go. So yes, it is common for the actual orbit to be 800-1000 when you order 500. Note, that instead of using the right click menu to set your orbit range, you should have it preset on the orbit button in your 'Selected Items' window. Obviously if you want to orbit at say 600m you might need to set that figure to 400m to get the desired result. Note that the tighter you orbit the slower you will go, so there is a line between getting in close to negate tracking to getting in too close that your speed is so badly affected that you improve his tracking.
Memphis Baas
#7 - 2016-08-22 13:01:07 UTC
You have to train the skills to achieve the mastery, but as it's been said already, the mastery itself is a guideline written by CCP 4 years ago, and it's out of touch with what's currently good / required.

How tight you orbit depends on your ship's agility and mass. Certain modules (armor plates, for example) increase the ship's mass. Also, prop modules tend to make you go faster but also add mass (afterburner isn't too bad, MWD is horrible at it). So these are stats you have to keep in mind for armor ships, as they are affected quite a bit.

Shield ships, if you're wondering, have the drawback of increased size. Shield extenders (the equivalent of armor plates) increase a ship's signature radius, which make it much easier to hit with bigger weapons. A frigate with oversized (medium, cruiser sized) shield extenders can easily be hit by cruiser and maybe even battleship weapons.

Size, speed, and angular (orbit) velocity are part of having a "signature" or "speed" tank. EFT, pyfa, or other theorycrafting apps don't illustrate this type of tank very well; it's not included in the EHP or "total hit points" calculations. You have to get in-game experience at using it.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2016-08-22 23:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Level 5 masteries are mostly useless achievements for those with nothing better to train,

Levels 1-4 are often useful, to some extent at least, but not a requirement.

Neither masteries nor certificates (nor tutorials) existed when I started playing EvE. You can survive without them.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2016-08-23 01:55:10 UTC
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#10 - 2016-08-23 14:28:20 UTC
Several have hinted at this but I will come out an just say it.

Mastery levels are irrelevant.

Instead of training mastery levels look at the skills that affect your ship or ships, the modules you have fit to those ships and in this case your drones, train those to at least level 4 and be done with it.