These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!

First post
Author
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#201 - 2016-08-18 20:16:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Drago Shouna wrote:
Ramona Taggart wrote:


It's a shame we don't have access to the raw numbers of these figures or how these figures were acquired. Did the 80,000 include trial accounts? Was this paid accounts only? Were they new player accounts, vet accounts, or mixed? What were the locations of these players? What were their activities?

It is a great marketing tool to say ship loss = better retention, but it's incredibly vague. What were the percentages? Does getting killed yield a 40-50% increased chance of retention? If so, that would be great. What if it were only 1.2%? Would they say that?

Also, what does "play longer" mean? How much longer? A month? Years? The point may be moot, but would be interested to see.

However, I'm not surprised a very small percentage of leaving accounts cited ship loss. I mean, they knew that going in right? That EVE is a game where you can be shot at any time. I think there would be something wrong with the players themselves if they enter a PVP game and are surprised they get killed.

I would be more interested in what reasons they did provide about leaving the game.

I feel there are far more factors in play than just Ship loss = better retention + sub fees.




Hmmm, you make an interesting point about pvp and new players coming in.

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Explorer

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Industrialist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Colonist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Skirmisher


Imagine you are a new player, see this offer and buy, say, the Explorer Pack. Where does it say that this is a pvp game and the second you leave the starter system you'll lose it all?

Where in all the advertising does it specifically say that this is a pure pvp game? I can't find it.

What it does say is that you can do whatever you want, and be whatever you want to be. It doesn't say that you'll be incessantly abused and farmed as a miner to pad kill boards. It doesn't say that as an industrialist you will be harassed and bullied out of the game if you take stuff to market without an escort or second account. Where does it say that as an explorer you risk getting killed by someone who scanned the anom first and they are sat cloaked waiting for you? PVP is kind of given lip service with the skirmisher pack.

This game is advertised as a sandbox game, nowhere can I find one that says this is a pvp game so if you don't enjoy it, don't bother.

Does anyone seriously think that a new player buying the colonist pack is interested in pvp?

A lot might come along because they see the massive space battles, just to find that they happen once a flood and the rest of the time is spent getting enough isk to buy ships for next time.

How do we get more players? I don't know. But getting their expectations up in a certain direction just for them to find out it's completely different in game isn't a good recruitment policy.

Here:

http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf

Go read Section 7 (page 22), especially the bit that says:

The essential core concept of Eve online is that it is a full time pvp in a sandbox environment...

That's straight from the New Pilot FAQ.

If you think Eve's advertisements don't suggest it's a pvp game, you can't have watched many. Maybe start with this one and then work back:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoxRcP5kbo

Why are we even having to discuss this yet again? This is basic information that is well known and it doesn't take much to find it.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#202 - 2016-08-18 20:56:54 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Ramona Taggart wrote:


It's a shame we don't have access to the raw numbers of these figures or how these figures were acquired. Did the 80,000 include trial accounts? Was this paid accounts only? Were they new player accounts, vet accounts, or mixed? What were the locations of these players? What were their activities?

It is a great marketing tool to say ship loss = better retention, but it's incredibly vague. What were the percentages? Does getting killed yield a 40-50% increased chance of retention? If so, that would be great. What if it were only 1.2%? Would they say that?

Also, what does "play longer" mean? How much longer? A month? Years? The point may be moot, but would be interested to see.

However, I'm not surprised a very small percentage of leaving accounts cited ship loss. I mean, they knew that going in right? That EVE is a game where you can be shot at any time. I think there would be something wrong with the players themselves if they enter a PVP game and are surprised they get killed.

I would be more interested in what reasons they did provide about leaving the game.

I feel there are far more factors in play than just Ship loss = better retention + sub fees.




Hmmm, you make an interesting point about pvp and new players coming in.

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Explorer

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Industrialist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Colonist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Skirmisher


Imagine you are a new player, see this offer and buy, say, the Explorer Pack. Where does it say that this is a pvp game and the second you leave the starter system you'll lose it all?

Where in all the advertising does it specifically say that this is a pure pvp game? I can't find it.

What it does say is that you can do whatever you want, and be whatever you want to be. It doesn't say that you'll be incessantly abused and farmed as a miner to pad kill boards. It doesn't say that as an industrialist you will be harassed and bullied out of the game if you take stuff to market without an escort or second account. Where does it say that as an explorer you risk getting killed by someone who scanned the anom first and they are sat cloaked waiting for you? PVP is kind of given lip service with the skirmisher pack.

This game is advertised as a sandbox game, nowhere can I find one that says this is a pvp game so if you don't enjoy it, don't bother.

Does anyone seriously think that a new player buying the colonist pack is interested in pvp?

A lot might come along because they see the massive space battles, just to find that they happen once a flood and the rest of the time is spent getting enough isk to buy ships for next time.

How do we get more players? I don't know. But getting their expectations up in a certain direction just for them to find out it's completely different in game isn't a good recruitment policy.

Here:

http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf

Go read Section 7 (page 22), especially the bit that says:

The essential core concept of Eve online is that it is a full time pvp in a sandbox environment...

That's straight from the New Pilot FAQ.

If you think Eve's advertisements don't suggest it's a pvp game, you can't have watched many. Maybe start with this one and then work back:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoxRcP5kbo

Why are we even having to discuss this yet again? This is basic information that is well known and it doesn't take much to find it.




Try reading it, all of it. PVP first gets mentioned on page 15 of 38, a 38 page new pilot faq? Seriously...how many (including myself) have ever read it before they played? The main bit about pvp comes on page 22, probably well after players have stopped reading and decided they fancy being an Industrialist and just skim read the rest (if they even bothered).

The point btw that I was making is obvious in those first few pages where they wax lyrical about what you could do, mining, industry etc. Then there's a short paragraph first mentioning the down side.

Whichever way you want to spin it, that's not advertising this as a pvp centric game.

You know what? I just went to the eve site and I can't even find that faq on the main page, or a link to it even though I know it exists. That whole faq should be on the main page.

If CCP are so adamant in their belief that this is a pure pvp game, why aren't those 2 pages at the front of the faq instead of being buried deep within it? Is it because they need to attract other type of players and they know damn well that if they did it might affect the game in a bad way?

My post was about CCP being honest with advertising and being truthful about what to expect, argue all you want..bullshitting to your prospective customers is never a good idea.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#203 - 2016-08-18 21:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Drago Shouna wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
...

Where in all the advertising does it specifically say that this is a pure pvp game? I can't find it.
...

Here:

http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf

Go read Section 7 (page 22), especially the bit that says:

The essential core concept of Eve online is that it is a full time pvp in a sandbox environment...

That's straight from the New Pilot FAQ.

If you think Eve's advertisements don't suggest it's a pvp game, you can't have watched many. Maybe start with this one and then work back:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoxRcP5kbo

Why are we even having to discuss this yet again? This is basic information that is well known and it doesn't take much to find it.




Try reading it, all of it. PVP first gets mentioned on page 15 of 38, a 38 page new pilot faq? Seriously...how many (including myself) have ever read it before they played? The main bit about pvp comes on page 22, probably well after players have stopped reading and decided they fancy being an Industrialist and just skim read the rest (if they even bothered).

The point btw that I was making is obvious in those first few pages where they wax lyrical about what you could do, mining, industry etc. Then there's a short paragraph first mentioning the down side.

Whichever way you want to spin it, that's not advertising this as a pvp centric game.

You know what? I just went to the eve site and I can't even find that faq on the main page, or a link to it even though I know it exists. That whole faq should be on the main page.

If CCP are so adamant in their belief that this is a pure pvp game, why aren't those 2 pages at the front of the faq instead of being buried deep within it? Is it because they need to attract other type of players and they know damn well that if they did it might affect the game in a bad way?

My post was about CCP being honest with advertising and being truthful about what to expect, argue all you want..bullshitting to your prospective customers is never a good idea.

You're the one that asked that question. Pure pvp is not what the game is. Full time pvp is though.

Now given an asnwer you're bitching and moaning that the answer isn't to your liking.

If you, or anyone else (me included) can't be bothered to read things, that's hardly CCP's fault.

You asked where the information is. There it is.

Typical entitled Carebear. No sense of personal responsibility to understand things. Just whinging because information is not spoon fed to you in the format you personally approve of.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Serene Repose
#204 - 2016-08-18 22:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Typical entitled Carebear. No sense of personal responsibility to understand things. Just whinging because information is not spoon fed to you in the format you personally approve of.
Pejorative much? (Tell us what you really think.) Sentiments such as these, by people who know full-well EVE has sizeable PvE content...who admittedly think PvP (and has been trying to prove this with recently revised literature trying to prop up the dying whale we're discussing) is the world the other worlds revolve around (unless they're dysfunctional) is why EVE is seen as a place where the dysfunctional gather to pat one another on the back, congratulating themselves on their recent torturings.

Like I said, "The fault is not in our stars, dear Brutus. It is in ourselves." Get the world to view EVE players as more than just a bunch of pixel pushing psychos, the customers will come. We have a reputation. This thread proves there's more than just a thread of truth to it. Or, give us another wall of convoluted reasoning text only an orangutan can understand if reading it while hanging upside down. The internet once again groans against the weight of yet another "PVP is all there is suckers" threadnought.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#205 - 2016-08-18 23:15:53 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
]Sentiments such as these, by people who know full-well EVE has sizeable PvE content...

Didn't I say that, or is reading too difficult?

That of course, wasn't the question I responded to, but as for pve content, yes of ocurse it has a sizeable Pve content. It's what I do in game myself (if pve includes hauling and industry).

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Serene Repose
#206 - 2016-08-18 23:50:35 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
]Sentiments such as these, by people who know full-well EVE has sizeable PvE content...

Didn't I say that, or is reading too difficult?

That of course, wasn't the question I responded to, but as for pve content, yes of ocurse it has a sizeable Pve content. It's what I do in game myself (if pve includes hauling and industry).
I guess my Shae compass went out of calibration at that last hairpin turn.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#207 - 2016-08-18 23:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Serene Repose wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
]Sentiments such as these, by people who know full-well EVE has sizeable PvE content...

Didn't I say that, or is reading too difficult?

That of course, wasn't the question I responded to, but as for pve content, yes of ocurse it has a sizeable Pve content. It's what I do in game myself (if pve includes hauling and industry).
I guess my Shae compass went out of calibration at that last hairpin turn.

So, you can't read then. Was what I thought, but confirmation is always welcome.

Edit: Maybe you were implying that I'm not a pve player (assuming pve includes industry and hauling).

If so, then that's also easy to prove you incorrect as always:

Sitting at home a few minutes ago. Querious is quite busy right now with the exodus of Brave and Affirmative. Lots of hauling contracts.

Current ship command skills and skill queue

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#208 - 2016-08-19 00:53:04 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:

Try reading it, all of it. PVP first gets mentioned on page 15 of 38, a 38 page new pilot faq? Seriously...how many (including myself) have ever read it before they played? The main bit about pvp comes on page 22, probably well after players have stopped reading and decided they fancy being an Industrialist and just skim read the rest (if they even bothered).



So what you're saying is, the information is available, and new players have only their ignorance (by proxy of not reading/being too lazy to read) to blame for not digesting it.

Gotcha.

You know, I've been saying pretty much the same thing for a few years now. Glad you've finally caught on.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#209 - 2016-08-19 00:57:14 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Typical entitled Carebear. No sense of personal responsibility to understand things. Just whinging because information is not spoon fed to you in the format you personally approve of.
Pejorative much? (Tell us what you really think.) Sentiments such as these, by people who know full-well EVE has sizeable PvE content...who admittedly think PvP (and has been trying to prove this with recently revised literature trying to prop up the dying whale we're discussing) is the world the other worlds revolve around (unless they're dysfunctional) is why EVE is seen as a place where the dysfunctional gather to pat one another on the back, congratulating themselves on their recent torturings.

Like I said, "The fault is not in our stars, dear Brutus. It is in ourselves." Get the world to view EVE players as more than just a bunch of pixel pushing psychos, the customers will come. We have a reputation. This thread proves there's more than just a thread of truth to it. Or, give us another wall of convoluted reasoning text only an orangutan can understand if reading it while hanging upside down. The internet once again groans against the weight of yet another "PVP is all there is suckers" threadnought.


In case you haven't noticed, EVE is a PVP game. Oh, you haven't noticed and think the PVE content proves me wrong? That's okay, if you take a close look at all the PVE content, it too is largely PVP activities as well, including trading and mining, both of which are done in competition with other players.

Yes, trading and mining are PVP, as well as PVE. PVE in this game has always been generic, repetitive, and mostly designed around facilitating PVP. Because at its core, EVE is a PVP game. That is a simple fact. You don't have to agree with it for it to remain a fact, you don't even have to accept or like it. Your delusions and ignorances are your own problem. But EVE is at its heart a PVP game, and every new player that you tell otherwise has you to blame for being misled into believing otherwise.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Solecist Project
#210 - 2016-08-19 01:13:11 UTC
20xx called...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Serene Repose
#211 - 2016-08-19 01:28:30 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Typical entitled Carebear. No sense of personal responsibility to understand things. Just whinging because information is not spoon fed to you in the format you personally approve of.
Pejorative much? (Tell us what you really think.) Sentiments such as these, by people who know full-well EVE has sizeable PvE content...who admittedly think PvP (and has been trying to prove this with recently revised literature trying to prop up the dying whale we're discussing) is the world the other worlds revolve around (unless they're dysfunctional) is why EVE is seen as a place where the dysfunctional gather to pat one another on the back, congratulating themselves on their recent torturings.

Like I said, "The fault is not in our stars, dear Brutus. It is in ourselves." Get the world to view EVE players as more than just a bunch of pixel pushing psychos, the customers will come. We have a reputation. This thread proves there's more than just a thread of truth to it. Or, give us another wall of convoluted reasoning text only an orangutan can understand if reading it while hanging upside down. The internet once again groans against the weight of yet another "PVP is all there is suckers" threadnought.


In case you haven't noticed, EVE is a PVP game. Oh, you haven't noticed and think the PVE content proves me wrong? That's okay, if you take a close look at all the PVE content, it too is largely PVP activities as well, including trading and mining, both of which are done in competition with other players.

Yes, trading and mining are PVP, as well as PVE. PVE in this game has always been generic, repetitive, and mostly designed around facilitating PVP. Because at its core, EVE is a PVP game. That is a simple fact. You don't have to agree with it for it to remain a fact, you don't even have to accept or like it. Your delusions and ignorances are your own problem. But EVE is at its heart a PVP game, and every new player that you tell otherwise has you to blame for being misled into believing otherwise.
are you posting new stuff you're writing, or just copy/pasting what you've already posted in a thousand other threads?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#212 - 2016-08-19 02:37:33 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
are you posting new stuff you're writing, or just copy/pasting what you've already posted in a thousand other threads?




It turns out, repeating the same facts over and over is the only legitimate way to counter the misinformation you expatiate being posted over and over, so the question becomes, are you paying attention to it, or dismissing it because it doesn't align with your agenda here?

Because honestly, your question to me could just as easily be asked of you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2016-08-19 03:18:09 UTC
Bring more players into EvE requires that CCP recognize the following:

a) The majority of subscribers in any MMO are PvE players
b) PvP players are subsidized by PvE players
c) PvE players don't like to be forced into non-consensual PvP
d) PvE players don't like to be spawn camped (either at zonelines or gates, they're the same thing)


Solution to a)

Create an immersive, fun and safe place in EvE to PvE. PvE in EvE is boring. PvE in EvE is schizoid, in that the higher rewards are in PvP areas whereas to attract PvE players they should be in PvE areas.

Focus on the largest % of subscriptions, not the smallest. Ganking in highsec is performed by a very small proportion of the playerbase yet CCP seems to pander to this small %. Buffing wrecks was one such move that was anti-subscription and anti-sandbox.


Solution to b)

To develop PvP and to support PvP activity and make a profit on your game you need a significant amount of PvE players. If you are relying solely on PvP players to pay subscriptions then you're missing out on the other 9 players who would be subbed for PvE. Go to any MMO in the world and look at the online player count on PvP servers vs PvE servers. You're looking at roughly 10 to 1 ratio.

Solution to c)

A person who is a PvE player is your bread and butter. They want to PvE, they don't want to PvP. Are they useless in a PvP game, NO, they provide profits. They should not be targets, should not be ganked, should not be forced into any sort of PvP because if they are they'll leave and you'll lose their subscription. That means less funds for PvP oriented activity. Some nerds will say, this is a PvP game, but they're incorrect, it has a large PvP component but its both a PvE, PvP and market game. If you become upset that some player in X system is PvE'ing and you can't kill them you have some psychological issues, how does it affect you? It doesn't. Well it does, it provides more money for CCP to develop your game.

Solution to d)

Spawn camping (Gate Camping) is a 13 year old mechanic that hasn't changed signficantly since EvE's inception. Given that in the initial release of the game there were only T1 disruptors and T1 scramblers and no overheating, the fact that spawn camping hasn't changed and remains the primary way to kill people is odd. In that time bubbles, interdictors, heavy interdictors, arazu, T2 warp disruption and scramblers were released as were ships that lock faster and move faster.

A system in which travel is easier seems counter productive to catching targets however when travel is easier more people travel and more people means more opportunity to catch someone but at the same time less risk to the risk averse. Its a win win situation.

An Example - Removing gate travel and replacing it with a system such as this would greatly benefit EvE PvP'rs and PvE'rs:

Player x wants to travel from Jita to Amarr. Player X isn't worried about PvP. Player X warps to Amarr. Player X is in warp for 2 minutes. In Amarr at a random location a system beacon appears which is warpable. The beacon appears for 2 minutes / x (10 seconds, 60 seconds, whatever).

Player Y wants to travel from Jita to Amarr. Player Y is worried about PvP. Player Y warps from Jita to Perimeter. Player Y is in warp for 10 seconds. In Perimeter at a random location a system beacon appears which is warpable. The beacon appears for 10 seconds / x (2 seconds, 6 seconds, whatever). Player Y then makes the next quick jump.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#214 - 2016-08-19 03:27:14 UTC
You didn't read the OP did you?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#215 - 2016-08-19 05:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
I have an idea.
Put CONCORD weapon inhibitor on market, having effect in system when deployed of not allowing to shoot other capsuleer with the weapons. Works only in High sec space. Would not afect the availability of using the weapons agains wartargets and criminal and suspect flagged players.
Make it destructable. Attacking it would make player a suspect. Other players then could shoot them. Give it enough survivability so you should dedicate at least 15 minutes to destroy it. Like with citadels.

Carebears could then defend their system from gankers, if they want. If they would still be crying that CCP is ebil, you could say to them they have a real impact on it, not CCP.

Tada! Problem solved, I think.. \o/
Viktor Amarr
#216 - 2016-08-19 05:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Amarr
EVE is a PVP game through and through, there are very little activities within EVE that are pure PVE. Having PVE doesn't somehow prove that this game isn't about PVP.

In fact, PVE in EVE was literally an after thought. This is easily proven by how ****** the NPC are and how even more ****** and terrible they were for the first decade of the game. CCP went "oh crap uhm PVE you say... we'll just sprinkle in some NPC with basic AI and it'll be done, who cares" kind of way. The AI, quality of the missions etc etc is crap because it never was CCP's goal to make it good, because PVE wasn't a focus at all.

This all doesn't mean you can't do or aren't allowed to do PVE. You can focus on PVE just fine and perhaps even get away with it but stating that EVE is a PVE game is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALA I can't HEAR you!". Reality doesn't go away if you close your eyes and wish it to vanish.
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#217 - 2016-08-19 05:55:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
To develop PvP and to support PvP activity and make a profit on your game you need a significant amount of PvE players.


Flawless logic. Let's test it on something else, shall we?

First of all, the basic premise. To develop and support space exploration, you need a significant amount of people that don't do space exploration.

Okay, that didn't work, let's try something else, just to be sure.

To develop and support an open and transparent democracy, you need a significant communist population....

Oh, wait, I'm starting to see flaws in your logic there. Sorry, let's try the other premise of your argument, that PVP and PVE players are two different things.

Let's ask the audience this time. We'll start with the PVP'ers.

Tell me, PVP'ers, how many of you have actively sought out and engaged in PVE in this game, for whatever reason?

Oh, I'm seeing a lot of hands, IZ, a lot of them. Now, let's ask the PVE'ers.

Tell me, PVE'ers, how many of you have actively sought out and engaged in PVP in this game, for whatever reason?

You know... it's odd that, I'm seeing a lot of the same hands go up, and a lot of the same hands stay down.

That's probably because PVP'ers frequently engage in PVE to facilitate their PVP, while the PVE'ers who didn't raise their hand for either question are all whining about it on the forums.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#218 - 2016-08-19 06:00:03 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Bring more players into EvE requires that CCP recognize the following:

a) The majority of subscribers in any MMO are PvE players
b) PvP players are subsidized by PvE players
c) PvE players don't like to be forced into non-consensual PvP
d) PvE players don't like to be spawn camped (either at zonelines or gates, they're the same thing)



a) EVE isn't 'any MMO'

b) no one is paying my subscription but me

c) see my last reply to you; PVE players aren't exclusive from PVP ones, and in this game, you consent to PVP the moment you log in. additionally, the vast majority of PVE content in this game is also PVP content due to the player-driven competition on the market.

d) no one likes to be 'spawn camp'. That's why smart people make insta's on the undock of a station. jumping through a gate =/= spawning, and there are many ways to mitigate the risk of being gate camped. Just because you haven't paid enough attention to learn them yet doesn't mean they don't exist.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Serene Repose
#219 - 2016-08-19 07:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
are you posting new stuff you're writing, or just copy/pasting what you've already posted in a thousand other threads?

It turns out, repeating the same facts over and over is the only legitimate way to counter the misinformation you expatiate being posted over and over, so the question becomes, are you paying attention to it, or dismissing it because it doesn't align with your agenda here?
Because honestly, your question to me could just as easily be asked of you.
I'm so happy you've selected me as your digital nemesis. Am I the only one, or do you manage to find them in all the forums of all the games you play?

Really, one has to admire how you've single-handedly defended EVE and kept it from changing. It must be an awesome, self-appointed responsibility. Between you and Shae, management must be grateful for their pension plans.

Oops. That makes two of you. Cool

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
....Was what I thought, but confirmation is always welcome....If so, then that's also easy to prove you incorrect as always....
Generating masses of useless text and posting it on a forum doesn't prove anything. Though many have tried, failed and given up at trying to tell you. The fact is you and your campadre in self-delusion have yet to address anything I've said. Other than to misconstrue, mislead then attempt a wall of text bum's rush, all of the bandwidth you've burned here and elsewhere, is to serve both of yours desires to appear knowledgeable, lucid and authoritative....striking out on all three.

But, hey. Don't let me stop you. Keep quoting and typing and quoting and typing. It's almost...entertaining.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#220 - 2016-08-19 07:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
blank post, text got eaten.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.