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Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-08-11 09:43:21 UTC
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2016-08-11 09:53:30 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.


There was once a guy in red alliance that lost a nyx to anom rats.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2016-08-11 09:56:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.


There was once a guy in red alliance that lost a nyx to anom rats.


people rat in 20+ bil supers and miners moan about puting a 3bil ship in a belt

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2016-08-11 10:01:56 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.


There was once a guy in red alliance that lost a nyx to anom rats.


people rat in 20+ bil supers and miners moan about puting a 3bil ship in a belt


Not too long ago people in dek were ratting in titan fleets. 3 billion isn't all that much😐
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#45 - 2016-08-11 12:57:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.


There was once a guy in red alliance that lost a nyx to anom rats.


people rat in 20+ bil supers and miners moan about puting a 3bil ship in a belt


Not too long ago people in dek were ratting in titan fleets. 3 billion isn't all that much😐

That actually sounds pretty safe with enough numbers.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2016-08-11 13:02:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.


There was once a guy in red alliance that lost a nyx to anom rats.


people rat in 20+ bil supers and miners moan about puting a 3bil ship in a belt


Not too long ago people in dek were ratting in titan fleets. 3 billion isn't all that much😐


Is there actually much higher tick with supers than carriers?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
bardghost Isu
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2016-08-11 13:05:20 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The Rorq is a tool to generate more income. How many ratters are flying around in 3B ships for an income of 30M IKS/h? The Rorq will need a massive boost in defence or a gigantic boost to boosting/mining to make sense using.


There was once a guy in red alliance that lost a nyx to anom rats.


people rat in 20+ bil supers and miners moan about puting a 3bil ship in a belt


Not too long ago people in dek were ratting in titan fleets. 3 billion isn't all that much😐


Is there actually much higher tick with supers than carriers?


A little bit higher, Until you get dropped on because your flying a super.
Thassel Shaile
The Sacred Order of the Space Weasels
#48 - 2016-08-13 13:48:40 UTC
People seriously underestimate just how strong the rorqual's tank is, We are talking like 20 to 30k dps tanked depending on fit (and it can go much higher) , your not at risk from small roaming gangs. Now put a bunch of these in belt mining, because mining will be what they do soon, and each with 500 to 1k dps worth of damage, you would be stupid to engage that with a small fleet.

And any large fleet you will see ages before they get to you on intel.

Seriously warp in your inty fleet or your small gang on a fleet of 10 skiffs and see how it turns out for you, now try that with 10 rorquals doing 3x the dps with 20x the tank.

As long as CCP allows the rorqual to keep its tank and dps I don't think being in belt is a big deal, I don't like the fact that my afk boosting alt will now be mostly useless, unless im behind the seat running it in the belt, but thats the direction ccp wants to go.

Most of the time what kills miners is they all run when a neut shows up and allows the one guy to get caught and killed, instead of staying on field and running the solo guy or small gang off.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#49 - 2016-08-14 21:06:55 UTC
CCP just made the rorqual Super and Titan bait.

its nothing but a sitting duck.. they seriously need to get in-game and test this thought process out.. no way can it survive when you have hot droppers cloaked up in systems for ages with no kind of counter.


Rest in Peace Rorqual pilots.. you're all going to die

bardghost Isu
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2016-08-14 21:14:35 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
CCP just made the rorqual Super and Titan bait.

its nothing but a sitting duck.. they seriously need to get in-game and test this thought process out.. no way can it survive when you have hot droppers cloaked up in systems for ages with no kind of counter.


Rest in Peace Rorqual pilots.. you're all going to die



Yeah, called it. Rorqual is now a useless hunk of crap that will rarely be used. Even if it can create invulnerability to save itself and its fleet its still pointless, Its a 3 billion ISK sitting duck. I'd rather pay 2 bil on a carrier and rat in that, Better income and profits not being split with other people.

That's the key thing, The rorqual was never really used to make a single person money, It was used to boost for a whole alliance and never really made the owner much profit. Yes it may be "Profitable over its lifetime" but when that profit is being split wtth 30+ other people, I don't see myself being able to replace one every month as would be happening.

I guess the devs don't play much within the player corps anymore, If they did they'd realise that "Able to get a cyno up to get support in" will just result in the attackers doing the same and escalating the fight until someone backs down or can't compete.
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2016-08-14 21:45:43 UTC
I wouldn't call the Rorq useless with these changes, but when its in triage mode it better have the defensive/offensive capabilities that come close to a carrier. It needs to be able to fend off roaming groups of up to 12 cruisers on its own and withstand significant punishment for it to be worth putting in a belt like that.

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Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#52 - 2016-08-14 22:01:46 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
I wouldn't call the Rorq useless with these changes, but when its in triage mode it better have the defensive/offensive capabilities that come close to a carrier. It needs to be able to fend off roaming groups of up to 12 cruisers on its own and withstand significant punishment for it to be worth putting in a belt like that.



its fawking useless.. its so useless that fozzie already has a alternative fleet command ship.. so long orca they forgot about you also.. 3bn space weight has became a 3bn sitting duck unless you're in a proper alliance with counter super & titan capability.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#53 - 2016-08-15 06:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
its fawking useless.. its so useless that fozzie already has a alternative fleet command ship.. so long orca they forgot about you also.. 3bn space weight has became a 3bn sitting duck unless you're in a proper alliance with counter super & titan capability.

You forgot blops-drops, too.

The invulnerability "super-weapon" (gad, that makes the bile rise in my throat) will only be activated when the Rorqual hits structure (because using it any earlier would be silly), which makes it totally useless for defending a fleet.

Currently the Rorqual is out-DPSed by a solo Rattlesnake. CCP will have to make the Rorqual significantly more powerful, at the risk of making it FAX-like (they already said it would have a FAX-like tank) with drones, which I don't think makes sense ... unless they remove the remote-rep capability ... which would prevent defending the fleet before activating last-resort "super-weapon".

Just not well thought-out in my opinion.
Nortal Aldent
Hate By Design Inc.
#54 - 2016-08-15 06:51:21 UTC
It's *seems* like this sort of gimmick was thought up by people who don't mine in null. Help isn't always available, it takes time to get a fleet together.....and in the situation they are creating you...don't...have...time.

There are many good idea's out there on how to make the ship with on grid boosts still work...this *IMO* isn't one.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#55 - 2016-08-15 10:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I can't really give an opinion on the Rorqual because I saw it as useless to me before and this change makes it just as useless. It will only be used by players operating in the main TZ of their alliance who have the abaility to protect their space above those around them and who are remote.

Using one in Providence would be suicide...

What interests me is the Exhumers, I saw the Skiff now has two mining lasars which I like, but I am very worried that the whining by gankers may have been listened too. The key calculation for me is to be able to tank the Kusions + 3 other players dual boxing, which would be 14 characters on a gank. That would be a fair requirement for effort in my view, at the moment my fit sits at 17 and the max fit is 20, some people have been killed by 8.

This is so key, we need that tanky option.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2016-08-15 11:20:09 UTC
Nortal Aldent wrote:
It's *seems* like this sort of gimmick was thought up by people who don't mine in null. Help isn't always available, it takes time to get a fleet together.....and in the situation they are creating you...don't...have...time.

There are many good idea's out there on how to make the ship with on grid boosts still work...this *IMO* isn't one.


You you are in an organisation that has a rorqual but doesn't operate a standing fleet then you are in a bad organisation.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#57 - 2016-08-15 11:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Nortal Aldent wrote:
It's *seems* like this sort of gimmick was thought up by people who don't mine in null. Help isn't always available, it takes time to get a fleet together.....and in the situation they are creating you...don't...have...time.

There are many good idea's out there on how to make the ship with on grid boosts still work...this *IMO* isn't one.

The 'doomsday' weapon is useful for large alliances, but for smaller mining ops then it would be useless as you are only delaying the inevitable.

What is interesting is the increased firepower and defence of the Rorqual along with it's new mining abilities.

IMO it should at least double the yield of a Hulk, be able to compress ore at the belt, and should not need to go into siege. This way you can destroy any small gang with the firepower of the drones, and for any large gang or possible drop you can simply stay aligned miles away from the belt and let the mining drones do the mining whilst the rorqual is aligned and ready to warp out a safe distance away.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#58 - 2016-08-15 12:15:03 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Nortal Aldent wrote:
It's *seems* like this sort of gimmick was thought up by people who don't mine in null. Help isn't always available, it takes time to get a fleet together.....and in the situation they are creating you...don't...have...time.

There are many good idea's out there on how to make the ship with on grid boosts still work...this *IMO* isn't one.

The 'doomsday' weapon is useful for large alliances, but for smaller mining ops then it would be useless as you are only delaying the inevitable.

What is interesting is the increased firepower and defence of the Rorqual along with it's new mining abilities.

IMO it should at least double the yield of a Hulk, be able to compress ore at the belt, and should not need to go into siege. This way you can destroy any small gang with the firepower of the drones, and for any large gang or possible drop you can simply stay aligned miles away from the belt and let the mining drones do the mining whilst the rorqual is aligned and ready to warp out a safe distance away.


If it works like that then I might be interested...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#59 - 2016-08-15 12:24:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Nortal Aldent wrote:
It's *seems* like this sort of gimmick was thought up by people who don't mine in null. Help isn't always available, it takes time to get a fleet together.....and in the situation they are creating you...don't...have...time.

There are many good idea's out there on how to make the ship with on grid boosts still work...this *IMO* isn't one.

The 'doomsday' weapon is useful for large alliances, but for smaller mining ops then it would be useless as you are only delaying the inevitable.

What is interesting is the increased firepower and defence of the Rorqual along with it's new mining abilities.

IMO it should at least double the yield of a Hulk, be able to compress ore at the belt, and should not need to go into siege. This way you can destroy any small gang with the firepower of the drones, and for any large gang or possible drop you can simply stay aligned miles away from the belt and let the mining drones do the mining whilst the rorqual is aligned and ready to warp out a safe distance away.


If it works like that then I might be interested...

lol you wanna wreck havoc on the market?
Because that's how you wreck havoc on the market! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#60 - 2016-08-15 16:54:49 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
its fawking useless.. its so useless that fozzie already has a alternative fleet command ship.. so long orca they forgot about you also.. 3bn space weight has became a 3bn sitting duck unless you're in a proper alliance with counter super & titan capability.

You forgot blops-drops, too.

The invulnerability "super-weapon" (gad, that makes the bile rise in my throat) will only be activated when the Rorqual hits structure (because using it any earlier would be silly), which makes it totally useless for defending a fleet.

Currently the Rorqual is out-DPSed by a solo Rattlesnake. CCP will have to make the Rorqual significantly more powerful, at the risk of making it FAX-like (they already said it would have a FAX-like tank) with drones, which I don't think makes sense ... unless they remove the remote-rep capability ... which would prevent defending the fleet before activating last-resort "super-weapon".

Just not well thought-out in my opinion.




oh i haven't forgotten about blops.. thats actually what i had in mind. its perfect example of fozzie's rampant hatred for Provi, he hates NRDS. he's proved this theory time and time again..i feel bad for the provi people cause they are really good decent guys, perhaps the most friendliest place of all null sec, with incredible friendly indy's who only want to enjoy the game and build their skill, the rorqual is good as dead out there.. fozzie refuses to fix cloaky camping, he refuses to even acknowledge it as a problem! so with that said. HOT DROP 0'clock is coming.. so please do field that Fax-POS- Rorqual with its sperm looking fighter drones. please do and watch it burn.

the rorqual is a piece of chit and no one should even use it.. .
they put it off and put it off, fozzie was the main one putting it off by the way cause he had no fawking clue what to do with it ever since ccp greyscale left, greyscale had to actually do a data pull to find out it was used as MINING SUPPORT!!!!!!

this is about to get really really ugly ccp. Oh i remember one fan-fest that CCP even teased the rorqual will get a whole new look around the time the barges will get theirs. i guess they couldn't afford to feed their mice artist and just forgot about it. these guys have no idea what to do with the rorqual ever since her coding was put into the POS tower coding.. they have no fawking idea how to fix the ship cause they never played that indy style in life.. you can look at the current CSM and just know who's going to be drooling at the meeting and planning their drops at the same darn time!!

so yeah.. if you not playing with the right alliance.. then force everyone to join the right alliance.. so much for the sandbox, its force the blue doughnut or die.. if you cant beat em.. join em right???

CSM cant save the rorqual, why dont ccp just offer a gosh darn buy-back program for the ship.. since its pretty obvious how much effort they put into carriers, supers, dreads and titans.. but have no fawking idea what to do with a Capital Industrial Ship. but hey im sure they'll promote some stupid skin for it when it comes.. whoopee!!