These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Solo cloaky ganking - Stratios or Proteus?

Author
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-07-29 20:02:07 UTC
People who are saying that prot gets more dps than a strat: have you ever fitted a cloaky prot? The DPS barely gets up to 470 if you have some kind of tank on it.
Valkin Mordirc
#22 - 2016-07-29 20:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
People who are saying that prot gets more dps than a strat: have you ever fitted a cloaky prot? The DPS barely gets up to 470 if you have some kind of tank on it.




Uh..


My Cloaky Proteus will get 494 with anti matter cold, With faction Mag stabs it jumps to 517, Void jumps it 577. My prot is blinged but It also has a 1100dps Omni tank, with links it'll go 1700. And in exile it can tank 2100. Cap stable. Granted one neut though and that goes out the window. But still. The proteus makes a decent cloaky hunter. It's just expensive and not as versatile as stratios.


An armor buffer Strat if neut fitted will be somewhere around 450, a pulse strat with be 600 but can't really buffer or active fit it will out fitting mods, so you lose tank. If you try to pulse fit an active armor tanked stratios you run into cap problems, So you either have to go with an X-L ASB, or fit autocannons on it and ignore the range bonus it gets. Which isn't unheard of. But still your trading. If you use autocannons, you don't have to use an Ancil, and you dps stays about the same though.


So YASS.

You right. A Statios will get more DPS then a prot. Just not as bad as you were saying.


Edited multiple times has I played with EFT.
#DeleteTheWeak
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#23 - 2016-07-29 21:01:15 UTC
The strats linked the previous page or about 600dps or so with neuts. You dont need massive tanks to kill pve ships, you need dps and neuts and damage selection.
Valkin Mordirc
#24 - 2016-07-29 21:22:53 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The strats linked the previous page or about 600dps or so with neuts. You dont need massive tanks to kill pve ships, you need dps and neuts and damage selection.



Who said anything about PVE ships? =3


As far as I'm aware it's about the pros and cons between to the ships as hunter/killers. And if you get jumped which tends to happen if you going after PVE ships, you do want some kind of tank to try and disengage and GTFO if you want to. A Bigger tank also means it's more likely you can stay on field and fight whatever happens to join in.


I edited by previous post, but yeah,

A Stat will out DPS a proteus, and has the added benifits of neuts. If you discount a DC in favor of a third Mag Stab the proteus can get up to 640 DPS, but that's with Void. A proteus has much more tanking capabilities then the stratios will get. It's also faster, but has a shitter align time then the stratios. It tends to be more pricey as well. The stratios is also more versatile in it's fitting, capable of armor or shield tanking and can be neut fitted or fitted with turret weapons.


Overall I would still say the Stratios is better ship for the role of a hunter/killer. But the Proteus shouldn't be discounted.
#DeleteTheWeak
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-07-30 17:17:49 UTC
I'm not seeing a fit that can get the numbers you're quoting, mind sharing?
Valkin Mordirc
#26 - 2016-07-31 03:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
[Proteus, Unnamed loadout]

Low:
Damage Control II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Mids:
Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler
50MN Microwarpdrive II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Highs:
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Rigs:
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

Subs:
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Best from memory and using Osmium since I'm at work, but I can grab my actually fit when I'm home. This fit isn't cap stable, but it's like 9mins cap life so it's more than enough.
#DeleteTheWeak
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#27 - 2016-07-31 10:42:00 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The strats linked the previous page or about 600dps or so with neuts. You dont need massive tanks to kill pve ships, you need dps and neuts and damage selection.


That is only a minimum and what I tried to elaborate on in my turret thread. The Stratios' fitting screen may show 462dps with one damage amplifier but all the traits of turrets apply to drones too.

In other words the same Stratios can have up to 3x 462dps - ouch.

Even though wrecking shots are more rare, penetrating ones are not as rare and looking at my Stratios' dps and combat logs, I estimate the value more at 1.6x 462dps.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#28 - 2016-07-31 14:26:15 UTC
Dps aready takes dps spread into account, and drone dps is actually lower then paper unlike gun dps which is slightly higher.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#29 - 2016-07-31 19:38:12 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Dps aready takes dps spread into account, and drone dps is actually lower then paper unlike gun dps which is slightly higher.


dps is first and foremost a value, nothing more. And second, I said fitting screen and no, it does not.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#30 - 2016-08-02 05:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
elitatwo wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Dps aready takes dps spread into account, and drone dps is actually lower then paper unlike gun dps which is slightly higher.


dps is first and foremost a value, nothing more. And second, I said fitting screen and no, it does not.


Thats totally meaningless, every stat is a value.And it does. Statement such as
Quote:
In other words the same Stratios can have up to 3x 462dps - ouch.
are hypethical true but getting 3 wrecking hits at once is suuuper unlikely and in normal same size hull fights not that meaningfull, in actual dps terms thats at most 5% in super fast fights. Claiming that you can get that overall (which dps is) is just false.

And assuming that the strat actually does 1.6 times the paper dps? Thats just wrong, if anything you do less then paper. You are just as likely to get 3 lowrolls in a row as 3 highrolls. The only ship that does more dps then paper in any meaningfull manner is a small arty ship in same size hull fights and thats due to guns being frontloaded and fights being over in 2 shots.




Yes you can do more damage per shot then 100% but you can also do less, this evens out to 100% overall so unless the fight is over in one or 2 shots it doesnt really matter.

To quote good old eve uni

Quote:

The damage from turrets always has a random factor in it, this is built into the game and can't be avoided. Under ideal conditions, when your hit chance is 100%, the damage done by your turrets will be inside an interval of 50% to 150% of your average damage (your target's resistance will reduce the damage done too). However, things are different when your hit chance decreases. Not only will you have a chance to miss your target, which means no damage done. But also, the damage interval will change as well. That interval is actually from 50% but only up to (50% + hit chance). So if your hit chance is 70%, not only will you miss a few shots, the shots that do hit are now in the damage interval of 50% to 120%. There are thus two simultaneous factors that reduce your damage when your chance to hit goes down. (This description has two tiny intentional errors in it that were used to help explain this concept more easily: the first error is that the damage interval is spread around what is known as base damage, the second error is that the percent interval only has 99 units, more details can be found in the second part below).

The random damage distribution

At the heart of a turret's damage output is a single randomly generated value between 0 and 1 that is several digits long, something like 0.317226. This random number is used both to determine if the turret hits the target and then to determine how much damage the hit actually did. Should the randomly generated number be less than 0.01 (1% chance), it will be a perfect hit (aka "wrecking"). A wrecking hit always deals exactly three times the base damage, exactly, there is no random element in damage from perfect hits. The thing about perfect hits is that they always occur as long as that random number was lower than 0.01 and at the same time lower than the hit chance. So perfect hits are not scored by 1% of the shots that can hit, but by 1% of all hits and misses taken together. This means that if your chance to hit is 1% or less, you will either hit perfectly or you will miss, with no normal hits.
The raw damage dealt by a turret is calculated by taking the randomly generated number that resulted in a hit, adding 0.49, and multiplying this sum with the turret's base damage. Since the first 1% of the random value is used for perfect hits, normal hits have a damage spread between 0.50 to 1.49, or 50% to 149% of the base damage, or in the case of perfect hits always exactly 300% of the base damage. This number will then be reduced accordingly by the target's damage resistances in order to obtain the final damage number.
The quality of a non perfect hit will be described by the value of the random number + 0.49, ranging from barely scratching (least damage) to excellent (highest damage).
Hit description Random damage modifier
Barely scratches 0.500–0.625
Hits lightly 0.625–0.750
Hits 0.750–1.000
Well aimed 1.000–1.250
Excellent 1.250–1.490
Perfectly 3.000
A turret with a 100% hit chance will see a natural and unavoidable damage spread between 50% to 149% of its base damage for normal hits, and will always do exactly 300% of its base damage on perfect hits. A turret with a 75% hit chance will have a damage spread of 50%–124% on normal hits and do 300% on perfect hits, so with a 75% hit chance there can be no excellent hits because they are now turned into misses.
Example: A small gatling laser turret fires on target. The chance to hit is 0.8981. The EVE server rolls a random number between 0 and 1, and gets 0.6573—this is less than the chance to hit so the shot lands on the target. At this point 0.49 is added to the random number which then becomes 1.1473. The turret had a damage multiplier of ×2.1 and the ammo does 4 EM and 2 Thermal, so the base damage is 2.1 multiplied with 6 (4+2), which is 12.6. After multiplying this with the random number we get the raw damage, which is 1.1473 × 12.6 = 14.456. This damage will become lower when resistances have been accounted for. In the combat log the hit will be described as "well aimed."
Viktor Amarr
#31 - 2016-08-07 09:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Amarr
The most important difference has been mentioned but it seems people, in their eagerness to show how right they are, just rampaged all over it.



The Proteus can be made immune to bubbles, this is a game changer. Especially so if you're hunting for PVE targets in 0.0 because you're going to run into hundreds of the buggers, it's generally less of an issue in WH space.

- It helps to not waste time as you enter the system, so the grind bears have less time to wake up, engage 2 braincells, realise there's a neutral in local and warp to safety

- it helps to not get caught in case you're being hunted or the system is well defended


So if you hunt in 0.0 then the Proteus is the better option for that very simple reason. It CAN be heavily blinged out but it doesn't need to be, if you keep it "normal" it'll perform just fine and pretty much on par with a Stratios with pros and cons going left & right.

The only difference is that the Stratios can sport a bunch of neuts while doing its dps which can be a big factor with PVE targets but not necessarily so. Damage type selection with drones is also useful but given that you're hunting PVE targets you can go to an area that suits your damage types. Either way, those pros are nullified by the Proteus' nullifier.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#32 - 2016-08-07 16:45:54 UTC
Interdiction Nullifer is incredibly useful.

Should take the Proteus because of it.
Super Miguel
Disposable Spies
Honorable Third Party
#33 - 2016-08-09 15:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Miguel
Divine Entervention wrote:
Interdiction Nullifer is incredibly useful.

Should take the Proteus because of it.


i run sometimes like this:

[Proteus, Proteus bubble y cloak]

1600mm Steel Plates II
800mm Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

50MN Microwarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

or:

[Proteus, Cloacky + anti bubbles]

Damage Control II
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
Federation Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Federation Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Proteus Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

Yes u can get reallllly tanky, but with 300 dps is very hard to kill anything bigger than a destroyer
Previous page12