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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1241 - 2016-08-08 20:28:38 UTC
Realistically back when I did (on a limited scale) market trades/hauling on a scale large enough to need a freighter, my tactics were even simpler than that:

#1) Fit a tank - duh
#2) Don't *ridiculously* over-load the freighter to the point that people are going to make a special effort to kill you
#3) *IF* possible, avoid uedama/niarja - if not, oh well
#4) Pick a non-peak-ganking time *********************THIS ONE IS THE BIGGY*******************************
#5) Autopilot
#6) Go AFK, do whatever
#7) Unload/sell the cargo in a few hours when it arrives
#8) Profit


I know it is a lot of steps - but you will notice that most of them aren't actually actions, just specific *lack* of doing stupid things P



Also if you have a very high value but small volume cargo - there are some ridiculously over-tanked ships in this game for that sort of hauling as well - I have no idea why anybody hauls *blueprints* (among other small valuable things) in shuttles or industrials....

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1242 - 2016-08-08 20:33:05 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Quote:
everyone has just as much right to play how they want as anyone else.

No one is saying anything else.
Well, partly, because everyone's turrets have the right to deny everyone else gameplay.

Fact is though, when you're afk, you're not playing.

An AFKtar-ish farmer isn't playing. (Drop drones, leave)

Ganker: 100% scout reliance, 10sec gameplay, 15min gcc: dock, afk
(Though the scout counts as playing actively in between ofc)

Miner: Lock roid, engage mining lasers, set alarm, go afk
AFKcloaker: Cloak, go afk.


All of these aren't really playing the game the vast majority of the time ...
... with the scout being a bit more active than the rest of them.


That's not gameplay, it's absense of gameplay.
Being afk means you're not playing.

Imagine a conference.

Just because you're sitting at the table silently ...
... doesn't mean you're actively influencing in a discussion.

Saying "i was part of the discussion" in this example would be completely misleading and wrong.


In the instance of the docked ganker and the AFK cloaker they are having very little impact on the game, IMO. The first, none at all, the second he only has the impact you let him have on you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1243 - 2016-08-08 20:50:43 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:


May I ask you this?

Do you really think that i.e. a player that decides to mine ores for the next 4 hours will stay in front of his pc for four hours pressing dscan and checking local while mining in hisec?

Do your really think mentally sane game developers think this mining mechanic is correctly played in front of pc all time?

Because giving my honest opinion there is a incredible level of duplicity ( hypochrisy ) in all of this discussion if we are discussing of mining for hours looking your ship still in the middle of the screen while pressing dscan and so on...


Well, if you are determined to reduce your probability of loss to zero, then yeah, that is what you'll have to do. Or you could accept the fact that periodically you may lose a ship and in which case you don't have go insane doing that kind of stuff.

Of course, oddly enough people do mine in NS and don't go insane....maybe you should look at what they are doing vs. what you are doing and change your game play?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Solecist Project
#1244 - 2016-08-08 20:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Teckos Pech wrote:
Chronos Thiesant wrote:


Regardless of why people choose to mine or mission, or whatever other boring activity, he does have a point. These players do still directly contribute to your eve gameplay.

Maybe you are an explorer in nullsec and find an A-type invuln. Who is going to buy that? One possibility is a mission runner blinging his favourite mission ship. Without him the demand is lower and so is the isk you can expect to make.


True, but that does not grant them special standings in the gaming community.

Quote:
Another example, you are a suicide ganker looking to gank for as cheap as possible so you can afford more ganks. Who provides the ships you will use? Who provides the materials in the first place? Yes it is these loner-type players once again.


The industrialist who is paid for what he provides. Again, no special standing.

Quote:
Sure you can argue that eve is better played with other people (which is just like your opinion, man), but if these miners / missioners / whatever all stopped playing you would feel the difference. Eve is a complex game with a real functional economy requiring many different roles to make the wheels turn. I want it to stay this way, with all the depth and complexity it already has.


Nobody is saying they should stop. However, it would be nice if they understood the nature of the game you are playing.

1. Eve is a sandbox game.
2. Do what you want.
3. However, if you are imprudent, either via ignorance or just not caring, somebody may very well show you how imprudent you were by blowing up/taking your stuff.

And we have people in this very thread saying, "I don't like that." That, by definition, is an example of the person playing the wrong game.


He may attempt to avoid.
That's a right everyone has.

It's like people don't understand freedom ...
... and rather seek "guidance" and "rules" in exchange for protection.

It's a right people ignore.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Hardin Stiff
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1245 - 2016-08-08 20:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hardin Stiff
I don't think it has anything to do with plex prices . Speaking for myself if the game is good , and enjoyable to play , I will pay the monthly fee . I have only payed for a month of game time with a plex once in all these years . Adding in these Serpentis / Angels activities ( They don't even attack you in a belt if you are mining ) with no "incentive loot" is lame . I have been playing this game since open beta , and since the last few years of constant nerfing / buffing , and bitching about miners / industrialist , or anybody that really doesn't want to pvp . ( This game wasn't like this when I played it earlier in my life ) The game has just became a big whine fest , with pvp'ers on one side whining because they can't kill any pve'ers because they won't leave high sec . And the pve'ers on the other side whining about getting ganked in high sec by catalyst and tornados . I am about ready to give my stuff away to a brand new noob . Yes , this is an alt .
Solecist Project
#1246 - 2016-08-08 21:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Teckos Pech wrote:
In the instance of the docked ganker and the AFK cloaker they are having very little impact on the game, IMO. The first, none at all, the second he only has the impact you let him have on you.

that's true. It wouldn't have to be that way though.
Not saying it serves any purpose beyond entertaining others, tbh.

I did that. GCC is tortue. i rather risked getting podded.
Winners got 10 million isk.

Was a great show back when hek wasn't dead.
like, so dead it hurt.

Below 80 during primetime.

it died a slow, cruel death.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1247 - 2016-08-08 21:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:



May I ask you this?

Do you really think that i.e. a player that decides to mine ores for the next 4 hours will stay in front of his pc for four hours pressing dscan and checking local while mining in hisec?

Do your really think mentally sane game developers think this mining mechanic is correctly played in front of pc all time?

Because giving my honest opinion there is a incredible level of duplicity ( hypochrisy ) in all of this discussion if we are discussing of mining for hours looking your ship still in the middle of the screen while pressing dscan and so on...


Yes. Hell, I do that when I want to do some mining, though I'll admit to relying more on local and experience in my neck of the woods rather than D-Scan.

These people decided to follow a career dealing with lines of code rather than dealing with people... I already question their sanity. But to each their own, right? /shrug Blink

When I mine, it's because I need something that I can do in EvE while doing something else - usually reading.

I also control my industry and market resources remotely while mining, as well as participating in various chats.

It doesn't take much to keep an eye on your system.

Gadget


You could...you know use something like Dotlan to get an idea of how often miners get ganked in a particular system and when.

And if you are on comms....and you are mining together, then you should all be watching local.

Edit: I have found 2 such systems where one has 7 the other 8 belts. Gee that was soooooo hard. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1248 - 2016-08-08 21:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Hardin Stiff wrote:
I don't think it has anything to do with plex prices . Speaking for myself if the game is good , and enjoyable to play , I will pay the monthly fee . I have only payed for a month of game time with a plex once in all these years . Adding in these Serpentis / Angels activities ( They don't even attack you in a belt if you are mining ) with no "incentive loot" is lame . I have been playing this game since open beta , and since the last few years of constant nerfing / buffing , and bitching about miners / industrialist , or anybody that really doesn't want to pvp . ( This game wasn't like this when I played it earlier in my life ) The game has just became a big whine fest , with pvp'ers on one side whining because they can't kill any pve'ers because they won't leave high sec . And the pve'ers on the other side whining about getting ganked in high sec by catalyst and tornados . I am about ready to give my stuff away to a brand new noob . Yes , this is an alt .
Not wanting to PvP isn't a problem as such, I don't want to PvP but I accept that it may happen to me and plan for it; I don't get much grief for it either, the grief that I do get tends not to come from mercs and gankers.

IMHO the problem is that some expect or want to be "safe" from PvP without putting any effort into making it happen, that to me is just wrong.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1249 - 2016-08-08 21:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
So using Dotlan and Zkill I found 3 systems where player ship losses have been very low for the last 48 hours, and damn few CODE. ganks.

Goddamn that was so hard. I worked up a sweat. I think I might need a nap. Roll

Found a fourth...now I really need a nap. The effort....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1250 - 2016-08-09 07:29:24 UTC
Was it something I said...that dodging CODE. and war decs is actually not that hard and people complaining about them are indeed just not putting forth much effort?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
#1251 - 2016-08-09 08:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Starblaze
Lucy Lollipops wrote:



May I ask you this?

Do your really think mentally sane game developers think this mining mechanic is correctly played in front of pc all time?



The funny part is: back in the days before mining ships with huge cargo holds existed you actually were forced to sit in front of your pc the whole time, because you had to unload your cargo after every mining cycle.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1252 - 2016-08-09 08:05:02 UTC
Every thread, there are less posters caring, why??

Because it's impossible to leave highsec. Unable to talk about anything else. Heard it all ten times before. Maybe the rest of us were too busy shooting stuff to post? idk man. I had fun playing EvE tonight and I hope y'all did too Blink To the nay-sayers ... potatoes gonna potate.
Chronos Thiesant
Deep Sky Enterprises
#1253 - 2016-08-09 09:38:07 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Every thread, there are less posters caring, why??

Because it's impossible to leave highsec. Unable to talk about anything else. Heard it all ten times before. Maybe the rest of us were too busy shooting stuff to post? idk man. I had fun playing EvE tonight and I hope y'all did too Blink To the nay-sayers ... potatoes gonna potate.


People seem to, wrongly, think of eve security as sort of like Runescape.

Highsec being totally safe, and the rest being the wilderness. People have this reflex that "I'm not a leet pro, so I should stay where it's safe". This is why you see so many posts calling for buffs to concord/ nerfs to ganking. These people do see crime in highsec as a flaw in the programming.

In fact people should think of the whole of eve as wilderness. Watch a nature documentary and see how close it matches things you've seen in game; it's quite funny actually. Highsec is in many ways more dangerous than other areas, simply because it is harder to tell what people's intentions are. At least if you're mining in null, you know anyone not friendly will try kill you.

The eve tutorial needs to make clear to new players that concord are not bodyguards, they simply provide consequence. If someone decides to kill you, they will, unless you can stop them.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1254 - 2016-08-09 10:22:59 UTC
Jessica Starblaze wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:



May I ask you this?

Do your really think mentally sane game developers think this mining mechanic is correctly played in front of pc all time?



The funny part is: back in the days before mining ships with huge cargo holds existed you actually were forced to sit in front of your pc the whole time, because you had to unload your cargo after every mining cycle.

So what is interesting in warping around and targetting astroids? IMHO project discovery is the only thing that makes mining acceptable. The problem with mining is that you have nothing to do and more important nothing important to do. In missions you have to check your Cap, Tank, ammo etc and it makes a difference if you do it or not because you may pop. While mining if you let your strip miner stop you just get less money. The element of danger is missing completely and so you don't have to pay attention=boredom
Jessica Starblaze
Rookie Help
#1255 - 2016-08-09 11:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Starblaze
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Jessica Starblaze wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:



May I ask you this?

Do your really think mentally sane game developers think this mining mechanic is correctly played in front of pc all time?



The funny part is: back in the days before mining ships with huge cargo holds existed you actually were forced to sit in front of your pc the whole time, because you had to unload your cargo after every mining cycle.

So what is interesting in warping around and targetting astroids? IMHO project discovery is the only thing that makes mining acceptable. The problem with mining is that you have nothing to do and more important nothing important to do. In missions you have to check your Cap, Tank, ammo etc and it makes a difference if you do it or not because you may pop. While mining if you let your strip miner stop you just get less money. The element of danger is missing completely and so you don't have to pay attention=boredom


You are missing out one part. In the time I am talking about there were no strip miners. And mining was just a lot more interactive. Sure just unloading your cargo 2 times per minute is a tedious task, still it did not allow any real afk gameplay if you wanted to be even half way efficient. On top of that there were not that many people with multiple accounts and mining efficiently actually still required working as a team and the social interaction made it a lot less boring as well.

Still the main point I was making: the way mining was in the early days you had to sit in front of the pc the whole time if you wanted to get anywhere with mining. So I guess the devs back then were not sane ;).
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1256 - 2016-08-09 12:02:53 UTC
I wanted Captains Quarters. I didn't need a fps inside or meeting rooms.

I would have been happy with

- a shelf to display heads of pvp kills.
- a trophy rack for 1000 pvp kills, 5000 missions runs etc etc
- some content on the screens like a monthly incharacter eve news show on player content in game and how to get involved.

Essentially CQ would have helped memorialize my playing experience

Seeing as CCP is clearly not interested in that.. having disabled CQ from citadels.. I may join the ranks unsubbed. and I know alot of current players who feel the same.


"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1257 - 2016-08-09 13:08:39 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The problem with mining is that you have nothing to do and more important nothing important to do. The element of danger is missing completely and so you don't have to pay attention=boredom


I propose asteroid collisions cause damage, and the miner needs to steer his vessel through like an old game of Asteroids (or Galactix)! It'll be fun I promise Twisted
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1258 - 2016-08-09 13:10:59 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The problem with mining is that you have nothing to do and more important nothing important to do. The element of danger is missing completely and so you don't have to pay attention=boredom


I propose asteroid collisions cause damage, and the miner needs to steer his vessel through like an old game of Asteroids (or Galactix)! It'll be fun I promise Twisted

Forget asteroid collisions - all collisions should cause damage. Lets get some *realism* into this game!!!

It could be based on mass/speed/etc - so a rookie ship would barely scratch your paint, a battleship would flatten you. And either way Concord could show up to decide who is at fault and issue the appropriate citations in high sec, to keep people there happy...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1259 - 2016-08-09 13:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
This new contract system makes it easy to scam people in terms of citadels access, would you gankers define this as a nerf to ganking, but a buff to courier scamming. Also the increase in courier contract size to 1.2m m3 to fit in a freighter with cargo expanders is definitely a buff to ganking.

This will be interesting to watch... EvilTwisted

EDIT:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4wwb40/begun_the_gank_contracts_have/?st=irns2qhb&sh=99c0a0ed

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1260 - 2016-08-09 13:54:19 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The problem with mining is that you have nothing to do and more important nothing important to do. The element of danger is missing completely and so you don't have to pay attention=boredom


I propose asteroid collisions cause damage, and the miner needs to steer his vessel through like an old game of Asteroids (or Galactix)! It'll be fun I promise Twisted

Forget asteroid collisions - all collisions should cause damage. Lets get some *realism* into this game!!!

It could be based on mass/speed/etc - so a rookie ship would barely scratch your paint, a battleship would flatten you. And either way Concord could show up to decide who is at fault and issue the appropriate citations in high sec, to keep people there happy...

Yeah, and Concord will issue tickets for parking in the wrong place to all gatecampers/stationgankers. Cool After the 10th ticket your Pilot licence is revoked and you have to use a spacecycle for a week. P
I like the idea, I just couldn't stand the whining of the gankers about nerfing bumping and killing all that content.