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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Is it time to revisit manual controls?
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John Nucleus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-07-29 01:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: John Nucleus
Hi,

I'm a returning player, took something like a year off, somehow I always get back to Eve. Anyway, there's been quite a few changes but the one that stood out immediately is the addition of the velocity indicators in the tactical overlay. I love it, it's much easier to get an idea of what's happening. So now that we can clearly see where our ship is heading when zoomed out, it is now possible and actually quite enjoyable to control the ship with the manual control while being zoomed out.

Now the problem is that it's a bit sluggish. Doing a 180 takes about four times longer than by clicking in space in the opposite direction of the ship. My limited experience tells me it's not that useful for fast ship in a serious situation.

A dev blog from 2014 indicates that the idea was to help new player by giving them a control scheme they were familiar with. It also says that the feature might be improve later if people like it.

So my question is simple, is it time to revisit and improve manual control? I am also curious to know if it is used often and in what context and if it ended up helping new player.

While I am at it, here's a few suggestions on the top of my head to improve it.


  • Double tap arrow key to make a steeper turn.
  • Double tap the stop shortcut to do a 180.
  • Use a green vector line for your own ship to easily locate it when zoomed out.
  • Instead of showing the thin blue line(the one with a circle at the end) jumping around because it's automatically clicking in space to make the ship turn, make it moves smoothly and always point in the direction the ship will fly when you stop pressing the button. This will help going exactly where you intent to and not overshoot it because of the one sec lag.
  • Reduce the one sec heartbeat of the game (which would probably make a lot of engineers at CCP cry but hey, a man can dream)


Thoughts?
Memphis Baas
#2 - 2016-07-29 01:45:47 UTC
We have cockpit view camera, I want joystick support.

Forget about all this clicking ****.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#3 - 2016-07-29 04:16:09 UTC
Quote:
It also says that the feature might be improve later if people like it.


Shame nobody liked it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2016-07-29 06:29:57 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
We have cockpit view camera, I want joystick support.

Forget about all this clicking ****.

Have fun using manual controls and cockpit view in a medium to large size fleet battle. The lack of oversight over the entire battle field and reduced situational awareness will surely come in handy.

Fun fact: I switched over to EVE from X3, which had manual controls. While I was very wary about the mouse click controls (in fact, it kept me from trying out EVE), I very quickly came to the realization that mouse click controls are very convenient and very precise for the way how EVE works. Manual controls, on the other hand, are utterly unfeasible for anything beyond leisurely cruising around a station.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-07-29 06:37:37 UTC
John Nucleus wrote:

  • Reduce the one sec heartbeat of the game (which would probably make a lot of engineers at CCP cry but hey, a man can dream)
    • [/list]

    Thoughts?



    This is the main issue with all the manual control ideas. It's also one that will never be solved without a complete rewrite of this terrible game, and an exponential increase in server costs.

    Never going to happen.
    Sitting Bull Lakota
    Poppins and Company
    #6 - 2016-07-29 08:35:33 UTC
    John Nucleus wrote:
    Hi,

    I'm a returning player, took something like a year off, somehow I always get back to Eve. Anyway, there's been quite a few changes but the one that stood out immediately is the addition of the velocity indicators in the tactical overlay. I love it, it's much easier to get an idea of what's happening. So now that we can clearly see where our ship is heading when zoomed out, it is now possible and actually quite enjoyable to control the ship with the manual control while being zoomed out.

    Now the problem is that it's a bit sluggish. Doing a 180 takes about four times longer than by clicking in space in the opposite direction of the ship. My limited experience tells me it's not that useful for fast ship in a serious situation.

    A dev blog from 2014 indicates that the idea was to help new player by giving them a control scheme they were familiar with. It also says that the feature might be improve later if people like it.

    So my question is simple, is it time to revisit and improve manual control? I am also curious to know if it is used often and in what context and if it ended up helping new player.

    While I am at it, here's a few suggestions on the top of my head to improve it.


    • Double tap arrow key to make a steeper turn.
    • Double tap the stop shortcut to do a 180.
    • Use a green vector line for your own ship to easily locate it when zoomed out.
    • Instead of showing the thin blue line(the one with a circle at the end) jumping around because it's automatically clicking in space to make the ship turn, make it moves smoothly and always point in the direction the ship will fly when you stop pressing the button. This will help going exactly where you intent to and not overshoot it because of the one sec lag.
    • Reduce the one sec heartbeat of the game (which would probably make a lot of engineers at CCP cry but hey, a man can dream)


    Thoughts?

    I too have noticed the difference in agility between wasd'ing and clicking. I believe this is because of the way the server processes information.
    If CCP ever gets their hardware to a point where it can process inputs faster than once per second (or whatever the current tick speed is) then I'm sure we'll see an introduction of more fluid and responsive ship controls.

    Here's hoping the load that Niantic is experiencing from Pokemon Go will cause a little more money to be spent on developing high speed/capacity server hardware.
    elitatwo
    Zansha Expansion
    #7 - 2016-07-29 11:25:40 UTC
    Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
    John Nucleus wrote:
    ...Thoughts?

    I too have noticed the difference in agility between wasd'ing and clicking. I believe this is because of the way the server processes information.
    If CCP ever gets their hardware to a point where it can process inputs faster than once per second (or whatever the current tick speed is) then I'm sure we'll see an introduction of more fluid and responsive ship controls.

    Here's hoping the load that Niantic is experiencing from Pokemon Go will cause a little more money to be spent on developing high speed/capacity server hardware.


    Sorry, my thoughts are mine.


    Moving on, it is not the server hardware that makes this unfeasable, it is the natural resistance occurring in thin copper wires, the transmission protocols that are used to transmit data packets around the globe and the hop-length that those data packets have to travel.

    So while it can be done in other games, EVE is just a fancy spreadsheet.

    Eve Minions is recruiting.

    This is the law of ship progression!

    Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
    Memphis Baas
    #8 - 2016-07-29 13:29:38 UTC
    Rivr Luzade wrote:

    Fun fact: I switched over to EVE from X3, which had manual controls. While I was very wary about the mouse click controls (in fact, it kept me from trying out EVE), I very quickly came to the realization that mouse click controls are very convenient and very precise for the way how EVE works. Manual controls, on the other hand, are utterly unfeasible for anything beyond leisurely cruising around a station.


    And X3 has capital ships, where being stuck to the cockpit view is detrimental to aiming the ship's broadsides properly. So this would be a case where EVE's control scheme would work better than the joystick, in X3.

    And that's my point with EVE. Its control scheme is actually very good, so instead of adding MORE clicking, like the OP is proposing, I just want an alternative option (joystick), for bomber runs, interceptor approach spiraling, or other fringe applications. To go with the recently-added cockpit camera.

    I don't think the mouse-look control scheme needs improving, it's just about perfect. The WASD control scheme they added a while ago (before the first person camera) does need to be upgraded to a joystick, though, it just doesn't work. And, I mean, I have a programmable joystick, I can approximate it now, but it's not the same feel as analog axes of rotation + throttle.

    And yeah, it won't work like in X3 because EVE's server tick is 1s (2s realistically). I'd still prefer to have my client show me a smooth flight simulation for my ship, even if the other players on-grid see my ship move as if I'd double-clicked in space, and even if it rubber-bands me or rubber-bands my targets and shifts their positions when the server tick updates my client.

    Because I'm a joystick aficionado.