Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Rokh: The Rokhs biggets Problem is (comperatively) lack of tank and damage, also the Rokhs range bonus seems fairly pointless on modern battlefields. The Rokhs tank is lackluster comparing it to the Abbadons , partially due to the Rokhs only 6 Tank relevant slots (6 meds) and the fact that the 8 Hybrids (Rails ...) are caphungry and require a capbooster or battery, that leaves you with 5 before propulsion.
Also the Rokh lacks a utility high (like the abbadon and Maelstrom)
New Slotlayout :
High 7 (6Guns
Med 7
Low 5

New Bonus: 4% Shield resistance /level
7,5% /level Large Hybrid Damage (the value might be to high but the idea is to give it a damage mod that a compensates for the 2 lost guns and adds some damage on top (but doesnt increase capusage like rate of fire would))



Raven: Also the Raven needs some love: In theory the Raven should be the best Ship choice for a missle carrier (since Caldari are "The missle Race"). Currently the Raven could only realy apply its full damage potential by either a) fitting 1-2 guidance computer and thereby weakening its tank , b) relying on very vulnerable recons or c) pray that no Ship smaller than Battlecruiser appears on the Battlefield
The Ravens Projection Bonus doesnt really help in any way or shape ,since the 25% flight speed increase only really shows at very long ranges and isnt that big to begin with (7km/s for a phoons cruise missles vs 8.9km/s for a ravens) ,and it would be better of with an application bonus .However since the Ravens theme seems to be a "missle sniper" i will suggest 2 sets of bonuses, one that makes it a better ship in my eyes and one that will make it a better missle sniper.


New Bonuses: 7,5% Launcher Damage /level
5% Explosion Vellocity for Cruise /Torpedos /Level

Alternative new: 5% Launcher Rate of Fire (or 7.5%Damage )
7,5% -10% MIssle Flightspeed


The Typhoon: Since im a firm believer that 2 Battleships shouldnt have the same bonuses and the Raven just took over the Phoons application bonus , the Phoon needs to be changed as well.
The Typhoon prefered tank for Fleet usage is armor , which opens 5 med slots for guidance computer /ewar and the like. Also the Phoon is (sorry old Term.) a Tier 1 BS (together with the scorp ,domi and geddon)
and im my opinion should somewhat fall in line with the ewar theme of "Tier 1 BS" .The New Bonus follows the Minmatar t1 ewar bonus , it also helps the missles apply better and finaly the phoon is less screwed if it needs to fit guidance computer (than a Raven eg.) , since it has all the med slots open.

New Bonuses: 5% Rate of Fire /Level
7,5% Targetpainter effectiveness /level




Raven Navy: The Raven Navy has got an inbuilt application and Projection Bonus which makes it follow the Navy Drakes theme. The Raven Navy in General is in a no to bad spot , but the application bonus isnt big enough for the weak application of large Missles , also the 8 MIssleslots take up enormous amounts of the fitting space available ,which leaves you without utility highs and basicly makes this ship impossible to fit with an active tank and a full set of tII launcher.
Since the navy Raven and the Raven allready do the same amount of damage (before application) it wouldnt hurt to make the NRaven fall in line with the 6 launcher theme of the Standart version. Again the Navy Ravens theme is somewhat close to the Navy (and STandart) Apocs Application + Projection Theme , to keep this theme up i will suggest 2 sets of bonuses. For the Alternative set of boni the slot layout would stay as it is right now.

Bonus: 7,5% Cruise and Torpedo Explosion radius /level
5% Launcher Rate of Fire /level

Alternative Bonus:7,5% Cruise and Torpedo Explosion Radius /level
7,5%-10% Missle Flightspeed /level

SLots (for Bonus set 1): High 8 (6 Missles)
Med 7
Low 5


Comandships: Comandships are in generall in a not to bad spot however i think they should get the t1 and Faction BCs (Role) 25% Range bonus as well, to keep them COmpetative against T3 Cruiser on the one side + other bcs and of course Battleships on the other side.
MIssles: Need to be invulnerable to smartbombs . They are disruptable like turrets so theres no real reason to keep them smartbombable .

Every time you give a ship a larger bonus to guns, you are increasing it's number of 'effective' slots.
That's the number that actually needs balancing. Giving a ship 100% bonus to turrets then giving it the same slots as a ship with 25% bonus to turrets is not 'balanced' in terms of slot layout. It's unbalanced.

Also remember that at some point in the next year we will get shield versions of slaves making all those 'lackluster' shield tanks suddenly hugely powerful.

The rokh could do with better cap, but it doesn't need a damage bonus. The optimal bonus becomes a damage bonus when using rails and the rokh has very good reach with null. The dps is also not bad simply because they are blasters/rails. What you could do is swap a low for an extra mid and give it a fitting buff.

The raven applies about as well as a phoon because of its extra mids (guidance enhancers are less for application and more for range) but also gets extra range (which is 10% per level, not 5%). The phoon tends to beat the raven for speed and raw dps because of its drones. Thats not unusual for the two races.

The navy raven is pretty much built for pve, which it doesnt need utility highs for. Nor does it have the navy drakes resist bonus.

The Rokh's damage projection is great, but that's because of railguns and has nothing to do with the ship itself. It has plenty of tank and in fact probably has a more popular slot layout than the Abaddon. The low slots can be used for shield tank. What's unbalanced is that mid slots cannot boost armor tank. Also, damage modules can fit in low slots and those are great at any range.

But perhaps the most telltale thing here is this: The Abaddon isn't more popular than the Rokh.

I'd like to see the Rokh with 7 mids and 4 lows, but most people seem to like it with 6/5.




I have a big problem with your suggested fix for the Rokh. You want to remove turret slots and then increase it's per-turret damage to compensate for the lost turrets. Have you considered the extra powergrid the Rokh has left over? What about the reduced capacitor cost? Is the Rokh underperforming in terms of capacitor and powergrid? If so, could it be solved by just adding capacitor and powergrid? Does the Rokh even need utility highs?

Adding another mid slot without removing a low slot gives the Rokh a total of 12 mids/lows which outnumbers all other tech 1 battleships and is a very strong buff. I don't think you realize how strong a difference it makes.

The range bonus to hybrids is par with a damage bonus. The difference is that the damage bonus works at low ranges beneath where the range bonus is useful, while the range bonus works at high ranges beyond where the damage bonus is useful. At all overlapping ranges, the bonuses are approximately equal but the range bonus is slightly better.

As the Rokh is a long-range ship, it has little need for utility highs. Though, as you seem to want to remove its long range purpose, I guess you're changing it completely, anyway.

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The only think I'd do to the Raven is give it 8 launchers. If that makes it overpowered, then nerf large missiles already. Then give us a missile attack battlecruiser. The Navy Raven has 8 launchers, the Golem has effectively 8. Why should they be a third more powerful than their tech 1 counterpart, when the Rokh, Maelstrom, and Tempest all have 8 weapons?

The Hyperion is a drone-heavy ship. It uses those highs for drone link augmentors.
I think the Rokh's problems could be solved by boosting its capacitor regen a bit and after that we just need the game to better support ranged ships. The Rokh is great as a ranged ship.



You're right. I forgot CCP did that. I think they shouldn't have.



The Tempest has good mobility (for a battleship), it can fit autocannons and torpedoes for close-range brawling, and it has capacitor left over that it can spend on neutralizers. The utility highs work well with it because it can be used as a close range ship. The Rokh isn't really built to take advantage of utility highs. Forcing it to use them is essentially a nerf.

Since Gallente gave up their tier 3 BS, we need another one to take the spot. If it were the Raven, then Caldari would have two and Gallente would have none, but at least all the weapon systems would be represented.

Why not have the Raven deal best damage to large targets but be inflexible (it is already inflexible), and leave the higher damage to small targets to the Navy Raven and the Golem, since they already have that? We don't need all three ravens having the same bonus. The rate of fire bonus on the Raven could be switched to damage, but I don't see why CCP is so averse to adding ships with a rate of fire bonus and eight weapons. They get higher DPS than other ships, but after you consider the drawbacks, it's not necessarily an upgrade. (I might increase the ammo volume of missiles, however)

I assume you are using your Raven soloish ? (yes Grapler make up for alot of things thanks ccp mucho appreciado) .
I would in general agree that the raven isnt bad per se , it just kinda gets outclassed by the phoon in fleet combat. Also i feel the speed bonus isnt high enough (2nd bonus idea ) . You are right torps are Bad (and everything bigger than torps too) and need to get balanced to become an as viable option as Blaster .
Finaly i dont feel the Rokh is fine , since its range bonus it pretty pointless its tank isnt the best and its cap hungry like a beast. Sniping today seems 99% imposible and the 1% is taken up by Slippery Petes.

I don't remember EVERYONE getting a disruption boat. I do remember Amarr getting a sort of disruption boat, Caldari already had a disruption boat and today it remains the one and only fully disruption battleship in the game.

I certainly remember asking for disruption battleships during tiericide.

i disagree since the raven shouldnt be worse than the phoon when it comes to actual combat (80% of the targets are abhacs , a phoon can deal with it why shouldnt the raven?)

It can. The raven makes an excellent anti-cruiser platform and is a good solo ship.

Oh? Is that a new thing? Haven't seen any of those yet but then nullsec bears fly so weird stuff. And t3 because t3.