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Adding Instanced PvP missions, like mini alliance tournament battles
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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#21 - 2016-07-23 18:55:57 UTC
As i say for every one of tjese damn threads that pop up, just go use sisi.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#22 - 2016-07-23 19:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Terra Volta wrote:
The Instanced PvP can be held in Empire Space backyard...and it can also be impenetratable without the Empire's permission.
No it can't, impenetrability is solely reserved for devspace, i.e CCP's backyard.

Quote:
I am not proposing to remove the Alliance Tournament, the AT will still be important. It is equivalent to the Playoffs for the NBA. The Instanced PvP is more like regular season games, or Exhibition games for fun.
I didn't suggest that you were trying to remove the AT

If you want to hold "season games" or "exhibition matches" you already can, if you don't want others interfering in them you already can. Roll

Quote:
Then what about CCP's Backyard that you just mentioned in your first point? If there is no safe space in Eve, then CCP's back yard should be vulnerable to player access and interference, even during Alliance Tournament competition.
CCP's backyard isn't in any area of space that is accessible to players under any other circumstances, the AT is a special circumstance, and while it does impact on the rest of the universe it is an annual event, not an everyday one.

The universe is normally taken to mean the areas of the game that are generally accessible to players all of the time, even if you could invade CCPs backyard you wouldn't like what you find there. It's Jove space, the NPCs would nom their way through pretty much anything you could chuck at them, with a couple of frigates; lore wise the Jove are the source of the tech that Concord uses, and they wouldn't have given Concord they best they had.

Quote:
So what I am proposing, is for the Instanced PvP to take place in one of the Empire Faction's back yard that's invulnerable from player interference, just like "CCP's Backyard" used in the alliance tournament.

I think I just made a very valid point right here.
The answer is still no, instances are in violation of one of the cornerstones of Eve and have no place in it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2016-07-23 19:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
As i say for every one of tjese damn threads that pop up, just go use sisi.
Already been said, he doesn't want to :

Terra Volta wrote:
Because the Test Server is not the real server. All of the player's assets are stored on the Real Server, and "winning" or "destroying ISK" on the Test Server doesn't really have any satisfaction.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#24 - 2016-07-23 19:10:09 UTC
Play another game. There, your problem is solved.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-07-23 19:11:56 UTC
This is EVE not WoW, so shoo, begone pest.
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#26 - 2016-07-23 19:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Volta
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No it can't, impenetrability is solely reserved for devspace, i.e CCP's backyard.

If there is impenetrability already existing in a section of the universe for the purpose of the Alliance Tournament, then this is a subjective matter not a definite one. So basically I am proposing they make another exception for a certain area of space that's highly secured and controlled by the empire factions.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


If you want to hold "season games" or "exhibition matches" you already can, if you don't want others interfering in them you already can. Roll

No you can't. Hence the difference between an Alliance Tournament match, and a regular PvP fight on Tranquility. Regular PvP fights are always subject to interference, and Alliance Tournament match is always invulnerable from interference.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CCP's backyard isn't in any area of space that is accessible to players under any other circumstances, the AT is a special circumstance, and while it does impact on the rest of the universe it is an annual event, not an everyday one.

The universe is normally taken to mean the areas of the game that are generally accessible to players all of the time, even if you could invade CCPs backyard you wouldn't like what you find there. It's Jove space, the NPCs would nom their way through pretty much anything you could chuck at them, with a couple of frigates; lore wise the Jove are the source of the tech that Concord uses, and they wouldn't have given Concord they best they had.

But nothing is set in stone - you are talking as if the current state of the game is set in stone. I know you are speaking on behalf of your preference. I am proposing my preference, that I think this will make the game appeal to a wider audience, and be more flexible to individual player's schedule. If CCP's area can be inaccessible, so can special high security areas of empire space.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The answer is still no, instances are in violation of one of the cornerstones of Eve and have no place in it.

Well, my proposition is: Yes, and cornerstones can change and evolve.

Like how Apple evolved from manufacturing computers to smartphones, and they still manufacture computers :P
They don't have to manufacture smartphones, and stop making computers. Apple customer can choose to buy Computer + iPhone, or just the iPhone.

If all the customers choose the iPhone, and nobody buys the Computer, then it must mean the Computer is flawed.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2016-07-23 19:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Terra Volta wrote:
No you can't. Hence the difference between an Alliance Tournament match, and a regular PvP fight on Tranquility. Regular PvP fights are always subject to interference, and Alliance Tournament match is always invulnerable from interference.
So do it on the test server, you'll never be free from the possibility of interference on TQ unless you're taking part in the AT. It's not like we're describing some arcane method of organising PvP matches where others can't interfere.

The AT is invulnerable to outside interference because it's an event that is officially sponsored and hosted by CCP; if it was player hosted it would be open to interference.

Quote:
But nothing is set in stone - you are talking as if the current state of the game is set in stone. I know you are speaking on behalf of your preference. I am proposing my preference, that I think this will make the game appeal to a wider audience, and be more flexible to individual player's schedule. If CCP's area can be inaccessible, so can special high security areas of empire space.
Which part of it's inaccessible because it's reserved for the devs are you finding hard to understand?

Quote:
Well, my proposition is: Yes, and cornerstones can change and evolve.
A cornerstone is an important quality or feature on which a particular thing depends or is based, you don't just remove or change one willy-nilly and hope for the best.

Quote:
Like how Apple evolved from manufacturing computers to smartphones, and they still manufacture computers :P
They don't have to manufacture smartphones, and stop making computers. Apple customer can choose to buy Computer + iPhone, or just the iPhone.

If all the customers choose the iPhone, and nobody buys the Computer, then it must mean the Computer is flawed.
Apple are in the business of selling hardware as fashion accessories, they always have been. The major appeal of their products is elegant design, hence their popularity in the creative industries, the internal hardware itself has rarely been anything special.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#28 - 2016-07-23 19:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Volta
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


The AT is invulnerable to outside interference because its an event that is officially sponsored and hosted by CCP; if it was player hosted it would be open to interference.

If the Instanced PvP matches are implemented, by definition, it is sponsored by CCP (officially or unofficially)

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Which part of it's inaccessible because it's reserved for the devs are you finding hard to understand?

The Alliance Tournament Space is reserved for Devs, players only have access during Alliance Tournament
Just like the highly-secured Empire Space I'm proposing - players only have access when the Empire allows it (When a PvP instance is generated). What part of this do you not understand? You seem to be getting impatient, when I have been responding to all your points with sound logic. If there is already existing space that players use to conduct orchestrated and uninterrupted PvP, then there can be another.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
A cornerstone is an important quality or feature on which a particular thing depends or is based, you don't just remove it willynilly and hope for the best.

Sometimes in business, that is what you have to do - so this is just another subjective matter where you have your opinion and I have mine. Sometimes, no risk = no reward and status quo = no reward. This is up to CCP Management, and the venture capitalists that invested in CCP Games.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#29 - 2016-07-23 20:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Terra Volta wrote:

The Alliance Tournament Space is reserved for Devs, players only have access during Alliance Tournament
Just like the highly-secured Empire Space I'm proposing - players only have access when the Empire allows it (When a PvP instance is generated). What part of this do you not understand? You seem to be getting impatient, when I have been responding to all your points with sound logic.
According to CCP the Empires are losing their grasp on power (@2:44), the promises of player built stargates and new areas of space being accessible through them seem to back this up.

If the Empires are losing their grasp on power, how are they going to wall off areas of space for your instances?

Quote:
Sometimes in business this is what you have to do - So this is just another subjective matter. Sometimes, no risk = no reward and status quo = no reward
Do you want Trammel? Because changing a cornerstone willy-nilly is how you get Trammel.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#30 - 2016-07-23 20:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Volta
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

According to CCP the Empires are losing their grasp on power (@2:44), the promises of player built stargates and new areas of space being accessible through them seem to back this up.

If the Empires are losing their grasp on power, how are they going to wall off areas of space for your instances?

Now we're getting into lore, this stuff gets made up to accommodate game changes. (And I don't think the empire factions will lose control of key systems anytime soon, such as Jita, Dodixie, Amarr, etc.)

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Do you want Trammel? Because this is how you end up with Trammel.

You think it's Trammel, I think it's good for the game because it offers players more schedule flexibility and choices. That's what this forum is for.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#31 - 2016-07-23 21:03:19 UTC
Terra Volta wrote:
...because it offers players more schedule flexibility and choices. That's what this forum is for.



Wherever did you get that notion? Enquiring minds want to know Idea

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2016-07-23 21:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Terra Volta wrote:
You think it's Trammel, I think it's good for the game because it offers players more schedule flexibility and choices.

Again... technically your idea offers a choice.

Functionally your idea does not offer a choice.


Instanced PvP impinges on freeform PvP because the former is, for all intents and purposes, "safer."
This leads to less people doing less freeform PvP because... well... why would you do something "less safe?"

It is bad for the game overall and will simply lead to long term stagnation.



Now you are right in that games evolve with time. EVE has been evolving since its inception. However you are asking for something that goes in a direction that directly conflicts with two of the base ethos of EVE. Those being;

- Everyone and anyone is allowed to affect you and your gameplay for better or worse.
- It is YOUR job to protect yourself and and your style of gameplay.


"Instancing" goes against all of those.

How did you Veterans start?
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#33 - 2016-07-23 21:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
At the OP.

This subject is nothing new, along with 99% of the other poorly thought out trash that gets posted in here it's merely a rehash of the same old "it works in other games so it'll work in Eve" crap, it completely ignores the fact the Eve is not like most other games.

Despite being discussed to death multiple times in the last 13 years, not one person has managed to produce a compelling enough case for CCP to break their main income source by following up on it, or any of the other game-breaking stupidity that people think is a good idea.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#34 - 2016-07-23 22:19:06 UTC
I am not sure why every OP in this subforum thinks his idiotic idea is somehow more attractive if he mentions that EVE loses subscribers and then fails to provide evidence that this is actually true and that his idea will change something.

Evil RatKid
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#35 - 2016-07-23 22:31:59 UTC
Gonna add my no to this.

Creating instances pretty much kills eve (or transforms it into a different game if you must). The more ccp imitates other mmo's the more they lose subscribers. Fluffers is pretty bang on when he says the game would be better off going backs to its roots. The reason people played eve was because they were looking for something different.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kenji Noguchi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2016-07-24 00:05:00 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Terra Volta wrote:
People have a choice (they can participate in the current open-universe PvP and the Instanced PvP). They can do both.
It's not like we are removing the current PvP, and replacing it with Instanced PvP.

You actually do. People are lazy and seek convenience over everything else. Having access to easy, quick and most of all secure PVP areas will draw loads of players out of the open world into these PVP rooms, practically removing every available target from people who would still like to do open world PVP -- not sov warfare, but actual roams, camps, hunts --, which forces more of them into the PVP rooms as well, removing even more targets from the open world. Et viola, EVE PVP removed from the open world.


Amazing. Again the "People would like it too much" argument used AGAINST a feature. Way to go!
Black Pedro
Mine.
#37 - 2016-07-24 08:10:38 UTC
Kenji Noguchi wrote:
Amazing. Again the "People would like it too much" argument used AGAINST a feature. Way to go!

People would also "like it" if CCP gave everyone a dozen Titans and the skills to fly them for Christmas next year. That does not mean that such an action would be good for the game.

Sorry OP, arranged PvP may seem like a good idea, but would completely asphyxiate the intended sandbox game play that is at the core of this game. Go arrange your own PvP in the universe if you'd like (or on Sisi), or participate in one of the existing arranged tournaments if that is what you are looking for, but there is zero chance of this ever being implemented under Seagull's tenure and unless there is a complete 180° in the direction of development of the game.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
bunzing heet
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-07-24 08:54:58 UTC
I'm gonna keep this short because this arena stuff is already been discussed a couple of times
PvP instance aka arenas = dead eve
So no

Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!
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