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CAC seeks board director positions

Author
Salgare
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#1 - 2016-07-20 02:33:56 UTC
summary:

github gives free individual accounts and charges for a group account. BitBucket (https://bitbucket.org/) gives an account for 5 submitters free (and charges for individual and over 5). I'm willing to move all of my code over to bitbucket and find 4 other individuals who would be the "submitters" and be the voters on pull requests for other community contributors. I'm wide open for any kind of governance the submitter/contributors want to write up rules for. Atlassian is big on Collaboration tools which is a big boon.

Typical Salgare verbose noise follows:

The Crest Application Coalition is seeking Board Director Positions covering the key points of diversity in our community.
It would be a boon to get Steve Ronuken as our CSM to hold a position of leadership in the coalition. Obviously Dragonaire, Blacksmoke16, foxjazz, Carbon Alabel, Admiral Blue, Hel o'ween, Squizz Caphinator, heck the entire regular posters here, and likely lurkers that I know not of would be invaluable to the Coalition.

So here are some immediate thoughts on the basic purpose of the coalition:

1. Promote the ease of application programmers to provide their own applications, either public or private by providing them with common reusable foundational code.

2. Help new comers to learn by getting them involved in your project corner of the Coalition where they don't have to start from scratch.

3. See if we can provide a migration path for existing applications that will be affected by the Oct. IGB removal.

4. Maintain some architectural overview of a diverse set of public code that helps it be modular and interact with other systems/subsystem in the Coalitions libraries.

5. Provide a community hosting source
a. That can easily scale as the use may demand.
b. That is dirt cheap if everyone contributes (Coalition rule 1, all finances are reported regularly and totally transparent)
c. Provide reasonable guarantees that purity of deployed code to the hosting source is safe from anyone sniffing/lifting data that they are not authorized to see/use by the application owners/users. (5 diverse overseers of deployments as mentioned in summary, and open source for the entire community to review).

So what do you say Dragonaire? Is there a place where Yapeal has a beautiful fit in a larger architecture? How about you Squizz, let's get some code in there to push kills to android/ios, bring the phone coders in under your world and encourage them to share their code with the coalition. And smoke, what of all those utilities? Base your apps on and help with some common stuff, and keep your final implementations for your own promotion of isk for service. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Anyway, that's likely enough noise to give the general idea.

Anyone interested?

Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
#2 - 2016-07-20 06:03:12 UTC
Actual as long as everything you are doing is open source you can form Organizations on github as well for free. I made one for Yapeal when I was thinking of dropping development and have used it also for a place to add Yapeal-ng to.

Not to try putting to much of a wet blanket on your ideas here as it has some merit but it has been tried before but never really gets anywhere. I was part of a group that had a large idea for making a common set of tools based around the EVE APIs etc and it lasted for a few weeks than just quietly died and as far as I know Yapeal is the only part that really continued. I've thought on why it didn't work out and have come to understand a lot of the reasons.
1. Though we thought we knew what would be required to do what we set out for our plan was way to large and lacked the needed details to make it work.
2. We really didn't have the same vision of what we wanted which is in part caused by things in 1 above.
3. No time. We all wanted to do something but we all only had limited time to work on things and talking about the other parts of the project that we weren't evolved in boring us all. We all had better things to do with our time like actual programming or the unthinkably actual play Eve Blink. Some people also had RL things come up that caused them to leave the group.
4. As much as we all like the idea of work on a common goal that wasn't why we were do Eve related things. Each of us had start to do something to 'scratch a personal itch'. For example I was using it to learn about PHP and SQL and happened to have a knack for working with XML. Others had ideas about cool web application interfaces they want to do. Some others like the idea of having some additional help with things in their exist projects which they didn't have the skill set for or weren't interested in but it needed.

In the end everyone just kind of faded away in a few weeks leave me and one other guy that had picked up someone else's old project and give it new life. We continue to help each other with each other's project just like we had been before but with everyone else gone the big plan just wasn't that interesting or possible.

Now I put that out there for you to think on mostly but something else that would have to be over come with what you are proposing is several of the people you listed write their eve related stuff in several different programming languages and while most of us can understand code from the others we see no reason to use them. So how much can really be done together might be a bit limited. Now I'm not going to say that groups of the third party developer community here haven't come together on some common ideas. One that I was very involve with was a standard json format everyone agreed to for exchanging market data. Unified Uploader and Data Interchange Format as it is called. It's still in use today even though most of the information can be had directly from CREST now because many people can't or don't want to directly access it themselves. There is also some work been done to proved it as push feeds etc that CCP doesn't provide. The Google group is https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/eve-emdr You might be interesting in some of the stuff they are do there because it probably over lapse some of what you are working on as well. I understand that a few months after we completed and people were using UUDIF that it prompted the developers of kill boards to also finally come up with a common format which had been a long standing issue with all the different ones using their own messages formats including just allow the plain text cut and pasting of the eve mails which lead to all kinds of bogus kills getting into the system since there was no built in way to third party verify things at the time.

I might have got a little side tracked above but the point is group projects have to be very focused to have a chance when dealing with the varied group you have with all the third party developers.

One other point you have to understand is ever if you think a lot of afford is being wasted by everybody making their own unique snowflakes the best that any of us have managed to do is to lead as many as possible to the already existing ones in the hope they don't loose interest before as least improve what is already available or using it to make something new we all can use. I've been doing it for almost 10 years now on these forums along with a few of the others both past and present. We even try to help everyone make their unique snow flakes as well from time to time and give each other a bad time once in a while about their snowflakes Blink

Finds camping stations from the inside much easier. Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API. Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.

Salgare
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#3 - 2016-07-20 07:40:03 UTC
Dragonaire wrote:
I've been doing it for almost 10 years now on these forums along with a few of the others both past and present. We even try to help everyone make their unique snow flakes as well from time to time and give each other a bad time once in a while about their snowflakes Blink


lol, yes, I understand and bow to your years of experience with this. I'm sorry for so boldly dropping into this long established community. I'll try to tone it down a bit.
Salgare
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#4 - 2016-07-20 08:22:27 UTC
Dragonaire wrote:

Now I put that out there for you to think on mostly but something else that would have to be over come with what you are proposing is several of the people you listed write their eve related stuff in several different programming languages and while most of us can understand code from the others we see no reason to use them.


Do realize I'm not proposing a single language at all. After seeing all the languages rabbitMq has interfaces for and finding the PHPBridge.war for Tomcat there is no reason for it. I was hoping you or others might write the PHP consumer side of the queue and or bridge while I do the producer java side.

For example, I don't think foxjazz is planning on doing java, he's doing nodejs which appears can/will utilize the async event aspects of the queue (which I keep asking about for php). He'll do the angular2/nodejs side of the fence. There is a programmer in my hauling corp who could do the python side etc.

The question for the "several people" I mentioned is if they have any interest in letting the java framework handle the oauth to cpp and provide addition access group and user rights support for application access partitioning, along with providing them automated cache-time refreshed client side cache data for all the endpoints either via request/response or async events, as well as the sde database.

More simply would you be interested in making your current data requests (or having it pushed to you), in your current languages from a local server que or bridge instead of hitting cpp servers yourself?


Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
#5 - 2016-07-22 14:29:55 UTC
Salgare wrote:
Dragonaire wrote:
I've been doing it for almost 10 years now on these forums along with a few of the others both past and present. We even try to help everyone make their unique snow flakes as well from time to time and give each other a bad time once in a while about their snowflakes Blink


lol, yes, I understand and bow to your years of experience with this. I'm sorry for so boldly dropping into this long established community. I'll try to tone it down a bit.


No need to be sorry at all, mate. Fresh blood is a almost requirement for any "established" entity to move forward. And the answers given last time for "why (abc) doesn't work" might not be true anymore.

I guess if I understand Dragonaire correctly, s/he simply wants to make sure that you're not too disappointed if your attempt doesn't fly (the first time around). And this so with sharing own experience from a comparable undertaking. But who knows - time and people around may be different this time ...

For example, judging from the commits made to the crowd-sourced API documentation, there is a community of EVE devs out there willing to put some time and effort into a group project, after all.

Also - if you haven't joined already, you might want to signup for the Tweetfleet Slack. There's a dedicated 3rd party devs channel (joined by CCP devs also) where you can bounce your idea around.

EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager.

Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
#6 - 2016-07-22 15:09:51 UTC
Hel O'Ween wrote:
Salgare wrote:
Dragonaire wrote:
I've been doing it for almost 10 years now on these forums along with a few of the others both past and present. We even try to help everyone make their unique snow flakes as well from time to time and give each other a bad time once in a while about their snowflakes Blink


lol, yes, I understand and bow to your years of experience with this. I'm sorry for so boldly dropping into this long established community. I'll try to tone it down a bit.


No need to be sorry at all, mate. Fresh blood is a almost requirement for any "established" entity to move forward. And the answers given last time for "why (abc) doesn't work" might not be true anymore.

I guess if I understand Dragonaire correctly, s/he simply wants to make sure that you're not too disappointed if your attempt doesn't fly (the first time around). And this so with sharing own experience from a comparable undertaking. But who knows - time and people around may be different this time ...

For example, judging from the commits made to the crowd-sourced API documentation, there is a community of EVE devs out there willing to put some time and effort into a group project, after all.

Also - if you haven't joined already, you might want to signup for the Tweetfleet Slack. There's a dedicated 3rd party devs channel (joined by CCP devs also) where you can bounce your idea around.

The crux of the problem though is that we are a small hobby community that do this for fun, this isn't our job and that's the level of commitment required. Hell, I'm not even a programmer.

Even if someone wanted to undertake and spearhead an effort like this, there is only a handful of consistent people that develop 3rd party apps. While I was frustrated with it for years, I've accepted that CCP's position on supporting third party development is probably the right one. We support each other and expect that it's all a hodgepodge of capability without any real structure or organization. Programming is problem solving and we basically figure it out in the end.

To the OP, I've been in the same position as you and understand your enthusiasm, but I'd suggest biting off small pieces to the support the community instead of a grand plan. It'll probably have more value and more success that way.

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Salgare
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#7 - 2016-07-22 15:48:23 UTC
Hel O'Ween, Zifrian;

Appreciate the input and totally understood. I'll just keep poking at it, it's something I've wanted to learn/do for some time. Thanks for the heads up on the Twetfleet slack.
Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
#8 - 2016-07-22 21:20:24 UTC
Hel O'Ween is right I'm not saying don't do it just understand that a maybe trying a couple small or at least smaller tightly focused projects might be a better idea and have a better chance to make it in the long run. Several of the most used third party Eve software or sites you've probably used were developed by single individuals with maybe one or two helpers from time to time. A good example of this is EVEMon which has been Desmont for years. I know he had other people that helped along the way but most of the coding and everything else I'm sure fell to him. He found someone else to pick up the project now as well which is great so it doesn't end with him stepping back and I hope to get to know Blitz Bandis though I expect they are going to be very busy for a while trying to settle in Blink and it might be a while before he becomes a common voice in the development community here like Desmont was.

Finds camping stations from the inside much easier. Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API. Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.

Golden Gnu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-07-27 17:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Golden Gnu
To use Zifrian's term, your snowflake ends up eating up all your time, leaving no time for other projects. When you have worked on your eve project for a while, the backlog will start growing faster than you can code it and you will be locked into your project for life. The only way out is to abandon it and let it die. Lol

That is why I personally can't take on anything like this. I got features to code and bugs to fixed for my own little snowflake.

I want to add that the people who help others on the forum and help improve the documentation are the heroes of this community.

Creator of jEveAssets - the asset manager

"Download is the meaning of life, upload is the meaning of intelligent life"