Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Can you elaborate then how such a link between systems will be accomplished? Or is it totally random? Cause then you are creating a very volatile mechanic. A point of destination is always necessary, like a star for example. Unless of course you need 2 ships to establish the link




Whats wrong with covops cyno, there is no beacon when you employ it.





-So during incursions, the wh module wont work

-Does that mean first come first served? Because you can have multiple regular wormholes within the same system at any given time, how do you justify the " 1 per system" restriction

Last but not least, would you mind explaining what its use will be? Is there a niche market for that module? If I understand you correctly, you want a new way to create a link between systems. What purpose cyno and covops cyno doesnt serve, that this new method will?

I could somehow understand a link to a random wh via this new module (no direct links to specific whs) even though I dont think its necessary

Lot of detail - cool

I have no idea what you are actually trying to do, or what do you want to be able to do with this?

The general answer to wh generation is NO. Mostly to prevent getting a foot in the door to wh generation. Being that your idea doesn't actually have anything to do with actual wh space, I recommend you change the name of the portal generator from wh generator to... well anything else. (replace wh generator with rift generator).

It appears you want to fling a small gang somewhat randomly across the universe, land hard, regroup, kick ass and gtfo. Seems like a reasonable avenue to have some fun to me.

Maybe add the following details to your idea:
1. max ships (class/size) that can use your portal
2. how accurate w/in a region it is reasonably expected to be

Some other suggestions:
1. Get rid of the light year range limit. If you're going from k-space to k-space through a new type of portal I don't see a need for a range limit. (keeping in mind the endpoint is only a general location, so direct hot dropping won't be a thing.)
2. Put a standard amount of fatigue per jump (independent of range) to balance.

Why I would say no: Even if you limit the portal to the passage of say 20 BC there is no stopping an FC from pointing 50 of these 20 BC guns at Delve (where ever), pulling the trigger and having 400 fleet canes regrouped in a few minutes. It would be used as a long rage titan bridge. Sure you couldn't hot drop w/ accuracy, but it would go a long way to unbalance what jump fatigue has put in place. If it goes by mass, 20 BC would become 200 shuttles that could get to an npc forward staging base and reship to carriers or whatever.

As cool as it would be to have a mechanic to fling a small gang across Eve for some fun, (sadly) the large alliances/coalitions ruin it for everyone with their inner need to N+1 everything they can get their hands on.

Its really not a difficult concept. The Generator creates an artificial wormhole. Its spawns the other end using a constellation, in range, that you set. RNG based on skills and generator module determines likelyhood of the WH spawning in target constellation. Once it is determined if it is spawned in the target constellation or a connected constellation. Then another RNG picks a random valid location to spawn the exit. Things are generated all the time in random locations in a given set of perimeters. This is no different.

There is nothing wrong with covertops cynos. However you do need a cyno dropper. Meaning people are already aware you are in system, you probably have already been reported in intel, etc. The tradeoff is when the exit spawns its spawns something to the effect of a " unidentified Wormhole" and is able to be warped to without the need of scanning it down. However since you do not need a dropper, you can bypass intel channels and advanced warnings that you are coming, at least briefly until you are reported in system as you exit the WH.

The entrance nor exit can be generated in any system that a cyno cannot be generated in. This is to provide some defense against the system. You are getting to hung up on trying to compare this to a natural occurring WH that goes to WH space. WHs go to other places besides W-space. Natural occurring WHs are natural and thus have their own set of laws. However the generator creates an artificial WH and as such is dependent on technology. As such that technology cannot create two stable artificial WHs in the same system at the same time.

However natural occurring WHs use no technology and are not affected by nor affect artificial WH generation. Its the hybrid technology that uses the data gathered from gates that limits multiple artificial WHs in system.

With current mechanics you must enter a system with a cyno dropper alt. This alerts the locals and their entire intel channel of your presence. If you are using a covert cyno, they dont know when or if your a dropper. However most safe up once you get near or in their system. The cyno system is precise but always predictable.

With this option you wont know if hostiles are entering the system until the WH appears on the overview and/or hostiles appear in system just like as if they were to come through a natural occurring WH. This allows you to show up unannounced in space that is otherwise normally protected via an intel channel. It removes some of the safety of "good intel" channels. The trade off is it does not have pinpoint accuracy. You cant say " Look 700 rats killed in A-B123, lets generate a WH there and kill them". The best you can do is get a chance that the WH will land in that system. but it might land next door, or in the next constellation. This is for balance purposes. IF you want pinpoint accuracy use a cyno dropper. If you want to land in a target area, normally safe because of intel, unannounced and start killing people use a WH generator.

This could have tactical uses as well. As such you do not need to sneak a cyno dropper by someone. And basically any subcapital can use the wormhole, you only need the BC Blackops to generate it. It actually adds quite a few tactics and strategies to sov null and has less impact on low sec. You could even use to it move industrials full of goods past gate camps and such.

It has many possibilities for use

It uses the same graphics as a WH, the same mechanics of a WH and mostly the same restrictions of a WH. Why would i call it something else? It is a WH just one made by a player and not the Games AI. It would be like calling NPC battleships , sailboats, because they arent exactly like player battleships. They are the same, they just have slightly different mechanics.

All of this was already covered. The ships would be limited to sub capitals due to mass restrictions. Your mass< less than total mass WH allows before collapse. Otherwise the collapse from mass would be the same as natural wormholes.

The accuracy was also covered in the module details and skills. A t1 module has an accuracy of landing you in the correct constellation( you target the constellation if its in range by using a popup of available constellations in range) of 20% This can be increased to a max of 45% chance using skills. For the best module ,a deadspace a type, this accuracy would be 85% chance of landing you in the target constellation with max skills.

LY range limit and jump fatigue are force projection limiters. You shouldnt be able to use this to jump from Catch to Delve and then back. It should be limited to a local region. Jumping past a couple of constellations etc, not 70 jumps across empire. I also put in place a min jump to further restrict it, though this could be changed to "the current constellation you are in cannot be the target constellation" and have the same desired affect actually probably a better affect.

Your version would be. mine however is not as i put specific restrictions on it in the original post in which you removed and then said it could be used as a long range titan bridge. So really you are arguing a point there with yourself.

The maximum mass with maximum skills and the best module is 3 million. That is roughly 12 battlecruisers or 30 cruisers. The deadspace modules would be rare costing hundreds of millions on average. If your an FC your not going to want to split your fleet up randomly. Think about it:

Team A (defenders) have 100 players.
Team B( attackers) have 200 players.

Team B is using cruisers ( about 100k mass each.)
Team B BC BLOPs are using faction(V1) generators with level 4 skills. They have a 60% chance of hitting the target constellation and can get about 17 cruisers through 1 WH. That means they are going to need to do this 11 times and those 11 mini fleets are going to be scrambling to meet up. Each fleet would need a couple logi and DPS, and likely would have some tackle. Otherwise if you have all DPS and no logi or all logi and no dps the chances of them dying if they get engaged is quite high. But even if they spent the time to overcome this obstacle having 11 fleets of 17 scrambling around a couple or 3 constellations trying to meet up and then running into the defenders who are together or maybe split in half, some of this fleet would get wiped out before they managed to meet up.

Thus an FC, tactically will always pick , the titan bridge which for ops is still far superior. Ive seen FCs go out of the way to keep a fleet together and intact.

However, this did spawn a couple of additional restrictions i would add:

1) The BC that generated the WH is sucked through when the WH collapses. Its mass is deducted from the total allowed mass when the WH is opened. In this way the BCs "bridging" are forced to go through so they cant just sit in a safe system and generate WHS with all the best equipment access to potentionally unlimited fuel etc with little to no danger to them. Unlike a titan they must commit to jumping when they generate the WH.

2) After a WH timer has run out( 3 minutes) or the total mass has passed and it collapses. It stays in this state for an additional 5?10?15? minutes. While it is in this state of decay another WH cannot be opened from or to this system( Result is you cant just open right after another and blop all over the constellation within minutes of each other) So a minimum of 8 minutes would be needed between WH in a system. 8 minutes is a lifetime in pvp.

LOL if we have ships at forward staging system( and you dont need NPC you can use a citadel) you can bet we have clones there( probably death clones) as they were put there when we put the ships there.

Titans have pinpoint accuracy and can fire bridges rather quickly and basically anything you can squeeze through the bridge in the time its open can go. Ive jumped with 200 plus battleships through a single bridge. So the force projection of a titan bridge is far superior. Plus a titan isnt just for bridging( though thats what many people use it for). Titans have a variety of functions. A bridge is only a small part of their capabilities and a titan bridge is still far superior for moving a decent size fleet.

This is more of a trade off between surprise( no cyno dropper), accuracy, and limits to fleet size per WH. Meaning its tailored for a small to medium size gang to do a guerilla style hit.

You do have a destination point. You are just trying to think of it on a smaller scale than i am. You look at it as if you have to make point A and Point B and then draw a line between them and then travel that line. Whereas this is you make point A, select point C( this is your destination constellation and more specifically the system you ideally would like to end up in), and the line is drawn randomly to point B, then you have to use gates to get to point C. The effort is still there, its just different effort. Sometimes you will get lucky and end up where you want to be but most of the time you wont ( even if you land in the right constellation, you will still have about a 1 in 6 chance of landing in the system you actually want to go in and thus could of just lit a cyno in to get you exactly there from the start location)

I answered this in the begining of this post. Mass restrictions and randomness make this a good guerilla tactic, but a poor fleet tactic. Titans are still king of the bridge. No FC would ever use this method to jump a fleet of sub caps in over titan bridge unless he was insane or a noob.

You might be able to skip that gate camp by going to a different constellation. but that doesnt mean you are safe. You still could end up in a system which has hostiles in it..not just those hostiles. So really you are playing the lottery. And you may end up having to go extra jumps just to get back where you want or keep jumping around . It has its trade offs.

Ok, then titans should be able to open up a bridge and then a cyno would appear miraculously in space, instigated by...noone.

Sorry but i dont follow the logic of this. No, there is no effort on your side, you just teleport within the constellation without any procedures followed.

I'll come back to the star example. You get a "star link generator"™, your wh / portal opens up, then you randomly project to a star in the constellation. Stars are fixed spots. They can get picked by an RNG. Whereas your A-B-C point analogy makes a beacon? Out of the blue? Just like that? Thats what the server does when generating anomalies and DED complexes.

You get my point I hope.

You are trying to think in a predetermined ruleset according to current game mechanics. And this is a new mechanic. Think of it like this:

A cyno is like a rifle with a red dot scope. A WH generator is like a shotgun. The bullet will go where that red dot is pointed. I can hit a small coin on a fence post at 75 yds with a red dot scope. You would be very lucky to hit the fence post with a shotgun. The fence post is the target system.

You are trading pinpoint accuracy for the ability to NOT need a beacon.



All of these questions were already addressed in previous posts. But i will touch on some points for you.

-Cyno jammers would work against these( since they arent covert). Basically a jammer in system would exclude that system as a possible exit point.

- The Training requirements would similar in time to a command BC. These can only be fit on this specific type of BC.
- There is a short "decay" time after the WH has become inactive. This prevents a new one from being generated in either system until the WH has completely decayed. This makes it hard to move a large fleet to the same spot.
-Splitting a large fleet up makes it vulnerable. Typically the bigger the gang the more specific of a role each ship plays and the more dependent it becomes on other ship types. It is more effective than if it had to fill a variety of roles but it is vulnerable in a smaller group. This makes NOT splitting up medium to large gangs and fleet ideal.
- If you use the sound constellation in curse as an example. Their are 20 possible systems that the WH could land in. To do multiple WHs at the same time you would need to use multiple systems at the same time for the entrance. Using this constellation as an example. The fleets could land as much as 12 jumps apart. And 6 jumps from a regroup system. That leaves them vulnerable. Or they could just titan bridge in and all land at the exact same point in space with the added benefit of being able to jump caps to the same point or a nearby point.
- If you use a pocket constellation you are still looking at one of about a dozen possible systems to land in.
- a thousand is a bit hard, You could probably do 50-100 max frigates with max skills and deadspace mod( remember the battlecruiser must go through the WH as well which removes about 250k mass from it).
- You can already "bomb" with a bridge. You just need someone to light a cyno which isnt exactly a difficult task.
- The difference is you dont need a dropper, making this good for surprise pvp in systems usually well protected by intel channels. Its really no different than having a WH in your system. a fleet can pop through at any time to pew pew you( i know because we do it ) . This just gives players more control over using that method to invade others space. The other difference is this WH will appear as a warpable icon on your overview as soon as its generated. So you will get a short notice someone is about to be all up in your space. But you wont get the several minutes, with ship types, and gang size intel channels give you.

Yes, there is a game mechanic, and the game revolves around it. Cyno has rules, you need to act for a cyno to become a reality, either with a dropper or with a POS. POS requires time to setup, good defence and a specific module for cyno. And it gives you pinpoint accuracy.

Now what you are saying is that the effort to place a dropper or a pos that will create the cyno isn't necessary, instead you will sit comfortably in your home system and project your fleet to another system, that will be decided randomly within the constellation. That way you can bypass gate bubbles, gate camps, you will circumvent all the effort other players have put into whatever they are doing, simply because a random wh will be generated somewhere in space, becoming a point of destination that you never deserved to have.

Following that logic, can I plz haz a doomsday device on my ibis? That would be cool indeed. Nobody expects a DD ibis. Likewise, nobody expects a beacon to be generated by a player without that player doing something about it to make it happen. In the early versions of Titans and doomsdays, players lit a cyno and the doomsday came through the cyno, not the titan. So someone was getting killmails he didn't deserve, with 100% impunity.

Continuing your analogy between a rifle and a shotgun, a rifle can go up to 1000++ yards depending on caliber, a shotgun is about 25-50 yards. So if accuracy gives range, then spread gives what? Does that mean that if we project a fleet via your proposed mechanic, that fleet will get dispersed all over the constellation? What purpose does that serve?

Your idea about a wh generator module is very interesting and intriguing, but implementation is a bit weak.

Thats not entirely true, if you deploy them properly they can reach 150-200k ehp, thats with mindlinks and slaves. Not all of them ofc, widow obviously haz a serious issue. Probably the only blops that needs a change of bonuses, inherit them from Scorpion Navy Issue, not Scorpion.