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CCP further plans for new awesome camera

Author
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#1 - 2016-07-10 13:30:45 UTC
Hello my dear EVE developers, especially Team Psycho Sisters members!
Please, share your plans for the new camera.
After you add Dynamic camera movement toggle again we were left in complete vacuum.
This is not exactly what we asked for.
I'm tired of asking the same question about a new camera. But with your silence you leave me no choice.
And now I have to start from dynamic camera options.

  • Are you planning to split dynamic camera movement options?
  • Explain where the logic to combine different features like Dynamic Center Offset, Dynamic FOV with docking animation into one toggle. Separate at least DCO and DFOV from animation.
  • Custom tracking position
  • Why is it so hard to make this feature for a new camera?
    We hoped that the new super-duper camera code helps to reproduce all feature from old camera but instead it is suitable only for adding useless docking animation. Five months have passed since you introduced a new camera but still not returned functionality of the OLD camera.
  • The next thing that infuriates me is unnecessary intermediate camera centering before starting rotation. But since you combined Dynamic Center Offset with Docking Animation i will not see this disaster until you separate options.
  • Are you planning to fix camera work with Dynamic Offset?
  • There are many problems with it. No limits for ship deviations and the ship can hide behind HUD or windows or simply escape from screen. It also unresponsive zoom and different sensitivity for x, y camera axes.

CCP, please tell us on which camera improvements you spend our money.

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Moriar theChosen
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#2 - 2016-07-10 18:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Moriar theChosen
There are many people asking for this in many places!

Quote:

Are you planning to split dynamic camera movement options?

Custom tracking position
Why is it so hard to make this feature for a new camera?


The camera is one of the most important pieces of the game and while I love the new tactical overlay, camera ideas, etc. It is frustrating to constantly be surprised and confused by the cameras behavior and limitations.
W33b3l
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-07-10 19:06:53 UTC
Ive adapted somewhat but for the love of god please make it so when i go to manually move the camera angle after its been locked on to something, the camera wont fight me at first. Its always wants to default back to another point before i can move it. It also makes getting out of the undock camera a pain in the ass. Its one of the most important parts of the game and its always fighting me. Not fluid at all anymore.

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#4 - 2016-07-11 02:54:33 UTC
Shocked

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

TackyTachy1
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-07-11 03:37:15 UTC
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Shocked


What does that mean? The emoji, in case my quote failed to catch it.

Forum Rep for a bunch of characters, couple corps and one seriously Lost In Space multiboxer.

Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#6 - 2016-07-12 20:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergey Hawk
As I thought our developers are silent.
But do not relax. I have another question.
Since I do not like dynamic center offset combined with docking animation, and since i do not like to look at my tracking objects through my ship I had to turn off autotracking.
And now the question.
Team Psycho Sisters members, have you ever tried to undock from the station and fly in space without autotracking?
The main difficulty that we can easily find the captured target with targeting crosshair but it is very difficult to determine the position of the object which just selected and not locked.
Why not connect ship with a selected object in space via barely visible line?
This line would help with determining the direction for camera rotation to quickly find selected object in space.
The same line is used for strip miners and asteroids.

http://i.imgur.com/cED5zCo.png
look at orange line

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#7 - 2016-07-13 08:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
Welcome to yet another camera rant. Eye-candy lovers fresh from Dora The Explorer.
TackyTachy1 wrote:
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Shocked
What does that mean? The emoji, in case my quote failed to catch it.
Oh. The eyes bulging. This usually means "I can't believe I'm seeing this." In this particular case, it means:
"I can't believe I'm seeing this."

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#8 - 2016-07-13 09:21:11 UTC
Please do not write meaningless messages.
Write specific questions about the camera work or suggestions how to improve its work.
And perhaps the developers will share their vision for camera future.
For comfortable playing I need only Custom Tracking Position and if autotrackining is turned off i need line or arrow that would show me the direction to selected object in space.
Maybe you have some other interesting ideas.

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
#9 - 2016-07-13 14:04:40 UTC
It's summer. I suspect there will be not much development until the devs come back to work.
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#10 - 2016-07-13 15:03:40 UTC
New camera was introduced on February 9, now July 13.
5 months camera team is silent and nothing really fixed or improved.
A "very short" summer in Iceland......

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#11 - 2016-08-05 15:37:34 UTC
After reading patch note for YC118.7 release I only have one question.
CCP, When you start to fix and improve your new "f.cking awesome" camera?

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#12 - 2016-08-05 15:41:33 UTC
The solution to the new camera is remove it and put the old one back in.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#13 - 2016-08-05 16:52:16 UTC
CCP too stubborn like donkeys, and too drowned in bureaucracy to bring OLD camera back.

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Runaway WarpDrive
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-08-28 14:50:58 UTC
Dear ccp.
I am an relative new player in eve, my first character came to life at 2013 and i was a dedicated apostille of the magic that eve online is, for quite some time after.
But.
As i was warping my avatar deeper and deeper in to the eve universe, i discovered a few flaws, that slowly creeped their way in to me, affecting what I think of the game.
Undocking out of a busy station, like jita trading hub, i would run it to ships murging together, while my ship was flying through other ships, warping out to an asteroid field, back when i was trying to earn my isk by mining, target an asterois, that happened to be behind an other object, usually, an other asteroid, hitting f1 to start mining, and see the mining beam, impailing the other asteroid, and hitting the targeted asteroid, like the other one was not there, same goes to live ammo, no matter what the target is hiding behind, projectiles,missles, e.t.c. fly through anything, and hit the target, then i would get bored of mining, and i warp to a station, unless i was close to an asteroid, or any other large object, in which case, the mining barge would wabble like it was hitting something, even if there was nothing there, and the closest object, was left behind, untill, the ship would gain some distance, or i double klick away, admittably, with out ever getting totaly stuck, so eventually, i warp to the station, klicking "dock, and watch the screen faiding to black, and then showing my ship in the station, or hang out the station, to gaze at other., well designed ships, disappearing to dock. and i am glad to see some work has been done, to adress that issue, all though my opinion is, the whole docking and undocking system, sould change radically, ideally, floating city like stations, could, and may sould be replaced with a structure, composed of three main components, and multypull docking bays, the first and most importent part of them being a tower like structure, with something like mechanical arms, or, flexible tenticals, a big habitation module connected to it, and a force field generator, with the arms, or, tenticals picking ships, one by one, and placing them to size adjustable docking bays, leaving the player the view of every other ship, docked to those stations, or floating city like stations, like the ones we have now, with gates, dedicated to entrance, and some sort of solid devise, like tow boats, attouching to the docking ship, maybe with tractor beams, and guiding it to the entrance, but, tractor beams coming directly from the stations, will do just the same i guess, looking forwards, to see that happening to all stations, any way, then i would dock, pick up a more fight worthy ship, and go out to do some ratting, warp to the location, and launch the drones... Where do those things come from? Some ships have something like drone gateways on them, like the ammarian destroyer class drone boat, but drones seem to want nothing to do with that, they just appear out of nowhere, do their thing, and disappear, back to nothingness, when i retrieve them, not to mention, watching them flying through all cind of stuff, as they approach, or, while attacking the target, and most, if not all of those drones, have wings... and they behave like little airplanes, and any ammo they use, is ejected out of stationary, umoveable turrets. why not, more solid designs for the drones? something more space-drone like, something with fixed turrets, that behaves like the drone we know and love, but, faces the target when ingaging, that don't fly through solid objects, and manuvers around stuff? Starting with the drones, would be a major improovement, but it would also increase the game's minimum requirements, and cut a lot of people out, just like all the other stuff i mentioned, i think.
And the game play is good, the skill system is fantastic, even if it takes a lot of time, the comunity is great, the whole look of the game is stylish, and getting better, and unlike some other games i tryed, camera was not an issue.
Untill reasently.
I came back to eve, using a second character i had build, to try and start over, about a couple of weeks ago, or, it was last week, i don't remember, all of the stuff that cept me away from the game, were still there, with a few improovements, i think, with collition control, of the ships, but, didn't mind that much, eve is still the type of game, i like the most, i even bought a joystick, and tryed out elite dangerous, beautyfull game that is, but doesn't appeals to me, the way eve does, with it's own shair of technical issues.
Which reminds me.
Why oh, why the ****, first person camera?
But, i will get to that later.

So, when the capital controls came to Greece, and i could no longer buy monthly subscibsion, using paysafe cards, i stpped playing eve, and didn't miss it all that much, honestly, but.. Well... Eve online is the only mmorpg of iit's cind, it's game play is unique, and after finding a new job, and getting a debt card, i decided to give it an other try, only to find the camera controls that i was used to, replaced with a new fancy system, and i tried it, after i finish ths thing i am writting, i plan to go back to the game, and submitt a bug report, discribing all of the new fancy, not practicall, camera downgrade.
My main problem is, the lack of option to adjust trcking camera position, with dynamic camera off, and the lack of option to set fading away camera off... If fading camera is what u call it, the thing that makes the camera, when looking at a moving object, to stay stationary, because if fading camera is how u call it, it makes no god damn sense, the ******* thing, just stays there, i ask it to show me an other ship, it shows me the ship, the ship flyes off to the distance and the god damn camera, stays still, shwing me the target's bracket, on the distance. What the ****?
Runaway WarpDrive
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2016-08-28 15:35:49 UTC
But those two issues are not the inly ones i have had the missfortune to discover.
The first person camera, being one of them.
all of it, doesn't matter, if, u can't make the camera, to show u anything, those gyroscopic lines, rolling up and down, left and right, serve no purpose at all, if u dock, with first person camera on, when u undock, it gives u a rear view, instead of a dront first person view, like it was supposed to.
Add more options to the first person camera, make it so, it can turn on tracking camera, show u an object u select, and return to first person view, if that object is no longer there, fix the undocking thing.
And still it is useless, some people may like it, leave it there, for them, regardless, it offers nothing to game play.
Tactical view, is good, it gives u an alternative to custom tracking position, by placing my ship, on the side of my point of view, but, has the same issues with tracking camera, when i choise to look at a moving object, and honestly, if that would be fixed, i wouldn't mind much, for loosing the costum tracking position option.
Custom tracking position is still an option, on settings menu, under short cuts, in navigation submenu.
I find that offensive.
The god damn piece of ****, does nothing... Is there a way to set a custom tracking position, i haven't found yet? If so, my bad, sorry for taking ur time.
If, not, i think leaving those options there, and there are more than one, is the dev's way of trolling us.
Maybe, this is an expirement, maybe they want to see, how bad can they downgrade gameplay, with out loosing customers.
If not.
they left behind, all of the collision control isseus, all the stuff, disappearing to thin air, or, thin vaceum of space, in our case, and reappearing some place else, and i think the citadel station's tractor beam, is a baby step to the right direction, but, took something that was functioning efficiently, something, that never came up as an isseu, for as long, as i can remember my self in eve, stripped it of few of it's most important attritudes, and replaced it with something fancier, and far less efficient.
And there are more things i would love to see changing in eve, turret size, being one of them, the way ships behave, rolling to their sides to turn, wabbling up and down things, like they float on stormy seas, alternative, i would prefer ships, with bigger turrets, fixed, with a targetting cone, using thrusters to position them selves in position to strike a target, or, do other stuff, and with smaller turrets, more versitile, dedicated to shooting smaller targets, in shorter proximity to the ship, with drone bays, actively opening and closing, to let drones in, or, out, and drones, with thrusters, orbitting the target, facing it with their fixed turrets, while shooting at it, more sferical, or, cubic looking, and no wings, but that would be a diff3erabt game intierly, and since i have not the money, to make it real, eve on line is the best next thing, if the devs stop downgrading it, by removing options, i guess, i must deal, with the new challenges, and my feel is, those challenges, handycap the game, correct me if, i am wrong.
Serene Repose
#16 - 2016-08-28 15:39:17 UTC
Sergey Hawk wrote:
Please do not write meaningless messages.
Write specific questions about the camera work or suggestions how to improve its work.
And perhaps the developers will share their vision for camera future.
For comfortable playing I need only Custom Tracking Position and if autotrackining is turned off i need line or arrow that would show me the direction to selected object in space.
Maybe you have some other interesting ideas.
What I find interesting is, you yourself say you never expected management to respond to your post, so your entire "Dear Developers..." angle was a put up job. THEN you tell people how they should respond to what you yourself have admitted is a bogus OP. SO....my helpful response....

I think the beginning of this thread was contrived, and I'd be willing to wager the first set of responses were planned beforehand to give the impression of a flood of interest in what has to be one of the most mundane "oh please gimme gimme gimme" threads I've seen thus far.

I implore, rather, management throw this diatribe of useless verbiage begging for highly-enhanced camera activity onto the ash heap of "that's what some people get for thinking" where all such threads as these belong.

Shocked <------ I can't believe I'm still seeing this.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Runaway WarpDrive
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-08-28 15:55:58 UTC
Accually, i forgot an other thing, haven't looked deep in to it, yet, but with the new option, of locking multypull targets, by pressing cntrl, and dragging, then u target, everything in that area, including all the stuff, u don't want to, like wreck, and ****, pressing a key and dragging with mouse to lock multypull targets, is a good idea, if I could decide what type of objects i want to target, then it would be a practicall one as well, if there is a way to do that, please let me know, if not, the idea is good, the given product, is incomplete.
Cade Windstalker
#18 - 2016-08-28 16:23:44 UTC
Sergey Hawk wrote:

Explain where the logic to combine different features like Dynamic Center Offset, Dynamic FOV with docking animation into one toggle. Separate at least DCO and DFOV from animation.


They already did answer this, like six times. They're trying to reduce the number of toggles in the menu not increase them.

There are a bunch of reasons for this just from a generic UI design perspective:


  • Too many toggles makes it hard to find what you're looking for and easy to miss that an option exists.
  • Too many menu options confuses new players and reinforces the idea that the game is overwhelming, hard to play, complicated in ways that it isn't.
  • At a certain point too many things in the menu will distort its layout, requiring work on the menu itself in order for it to function correctly and display on all settings and resolutions.
  • Programming each new UI option does, in fact, take some time.


While I would personally like to see more separation in this area I can also understand where CCP is coming from. It took me an hour of looking around, googling, and finally asking someone to figure out how to adjust my damage notification settings and I'm not exactly a new player.
Runaway WarpDrive
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-08-28 17:27:26 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Sergey Hawk wrote:
Please do not write meaningless messages.
Write specific questions about the camera work or suggestions how to improve its work.
And perhaps the developers will share their vision for camera future.
For comfortable playing I need only Custom Tracking Position and if autotrackining is turned off i need line or arrow that would show me the direction to selected object in space.
Maybe you have some other interesting ideas.
What I find interesting is, you yourself say you never expected management to respond to your post, so your entire "Dear Developers..." angle was a put up job. THEN you tell people how they should respond to what you yourself have admitted is a bogus OP. SO....my helpful response....

I think the beginning of this thread was contrived, and I'd be willing to wager the first set of responses were planned beforehand to give the impression of a flood of interest in what has to be one of the most mundane "oh please gimme gimme gimme" threads I've seen thus far.

I implore, rather, management throw this diatribe of useless verbiage begging for highly-enhanced camera activity onto the ash heap of "that's what some people get for thinking" where all such threads as these belong.

Shocked <------ I can't believe I'm still seeing this.


Don't tell me what to do, i was working up all of the stuff i wrote, for a very long time, if u would take the time to read everything i wrote, u will find, that the new camera, is yet an other breaker of immersion to this game, but along with it there r a few things that bug me, and as i mentioned, all those things cept me from the game, collition control, lack of station entrences, stuff disappearing from one placen and uninspectably reappearing somewhere else, **** that was always there, and still r, and now the lack of features of the old camera, on the new. All of them.
Including the ones, i didn't get to include to my game play, is nerfing the whole game, the ghost options in the settings menu, why leave them there? why add to my furstration? i couldn't find a way to play the game, the way i was used to, to begin with, those added features, that made no sense, to me, and after an hour or so, floating aimlessly in space, trying to figuere out how to interact, to the same inviroment, using diffearant methods to contaplate the miising options, of the old camera, only to inspect the settings menu, for a third, or, fourth time, to find the custom tracking position option, assign a short cut to it, just to find out it does jack ****, things that used to b there, they were usefull, and now they r gone, and just as i thought to my self, i found a way home, the options do nothing, i can not begin to discribe how that pissed me off, and u come and tell me i was put up to making those comments? My dear, if u think there is some sort of conspiracy behind me writting down all of the stuff, that **** me off with eve, u sould have that checked out, it is called paranoia, and can really get in ur way, if u let it gets out of control.
But I do admitt a lot of the stuff i wrote down, make no sense, if u try to confie them, to the eve universe, that part, was mere wishfull thinking, i tried to find a game like eve but better, i even spented money, trying to replace eve with elite dangerous, the dust on the joystick, says i failed, and those features i discribed belong to my idea of a dream space sim mmorpg, something that i wish eve would be. what part of all that do u think is contrived? When did i express any sort of desire for feedback from ccp? I want them to read this, and do that simple thing so much ppl is asking for, a freaking custom tracking camera position, but, u think they don't know that? I want more, Yes, a lot of what i wrote is gimme gimme gimme, hell, i even want to see, wrecks, breaking to pieces, if a ship hits them, also, i strongly believe there is a lot of patencial on improoving explotions, and i am glad to see there has been some improovement on that field, why the hell not? I don't spent time posting **** on forums, much, this is the first time i am doing this, and the bottom line is: Eve on line has plently of fields, demanding the dev team's attention, the old camera, was never one of them.
Runaway WarpDrive
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2016-08-28 17:56:25 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Sergey Hawk wrote:

Explain where the logic to combine different features like Dynamic Center Offset, Dynamic FOV with docking animation into one toggle. Separate at least DCO and DFOV from animation.


They already did answer this, like six times. They're trying to reduce the number of toggles in the menu not increase them.

There are a bunch of reasons for this just from a generic UI design perspective:


  • Too many toggles makes it hard to find what you're looking for and easy to miss that an option exists.
  • Too many menu options confuses new players and reinforces the idea that the game is overwhelming, hard to play, complicated in ways that it isn't.
  • At a certain point too many things in the menu will distort its layout, requiring work on the menu itself in order for it to function correctly and display on all settings and resolutions.
  • Programming each new UI option does, in fact, take some time.


While I would personally like to see more separation in this area I can also understand where CCP is coming from. It took me an hour of looking around, googling, and finally asking someone to figure out how to adjust my damage notification settings and I'm not exactly a new player.

Of all the stuff i feel are missing of eve, the forgotten settings menu options, are the least important, but after trying to adjust the new settings to my game play, and failing, when i found them, i thought i had it. Discovering they don't work, added to my furstration, and managed to get in to my nerves the most
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