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Tiptoe-ing into level 2 security missions - in over my head?

Author
Elsia Hitami
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-07-12 04:23:34 UTC
Hey all,
I currently have an amarr character with a Coercer - I have just done a few level 2 security missions and while the last one was a bit tricky, I took on a 2 cruisers and 7 frigates, the one I am currently attempting has a bunch of sentry missile platforms and I'm just getting absolutely roasted.

It seems, from my noob perspective, that I'm due to move up to a Cruiser/Omen - but if I stick to 'Don't buy what you can't afford to replace' then I'm quite a ways away from this.

So a couple of questions:
1) Should I upgrade to continue level 2 missions?
2) If I do, am I stuck grinding tiny level 1 missions to earn the cash? This seems a little brutal.

Thanks for your time!
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#2 - 2016-07-12 06:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Rule 1 still applies. But yea, destroyers, especially at low skill, are mainly for clearing level 1s quickly, not so good for level 2s.

You don't need to save a whole lot for a cruiser really. You can increase your income by salvaging and looting the missions. In a destroyer, you can salvage, loot, and kill, all at the same time for level 1s.

be sure to take your loot to amarr or jita to sell though. Don't fall into the newbie trap of selling your loot at the nearest station. You'll get crap and the loot prices are already pretty low.
Still salvaging should increase your income substantially enough to get that cruiser anyway.

I wanted to check out the new player experience anyway, time to make a trial.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#3 - 2016-07-12 07:00:32 UTC
In general terms, especially for newer players who don't have strong skills yet, Destroyer for L1 missions, Cruiser for L2, Battlecruiser for L3, Battleship for L4.

You're looking at about 10 - 11 million isk just to buy a basic T1 cruiser, plus the modules to fit it on top of that.

Grinding cash. All four of the main races/factions (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar) have three starter/rookie systems, for a total of 12 rookie systems. There is nothing stopping you from travelling to any of the other rookie systems and running the career agent mission arcs in those systems. You'll earn cash as well as faction standings, plus you'll be given some free ships you can keep or sell for more cash. Since these career mission arcs are for brand new players, they're very easy.

There is also the "Sisters of Eve - Blood Stained Stars" mission arc which can be completed by players with limited skills. The arc has approx 50 missions. A couple of the missions near the end of the arc are tougher than average but you should be able to earn enough cash from the arc to buy and fit a cruiser before you get to those final missions, or make some friends in-game and ask them to help you with them. You can repeat this mission arc once every three months.

To start this mission arc, speak to the NPC "Sister Alitura" in the Arnon system. You might already have info about her in your "People and Places", search type Agent, partial term search - "Sister".

You can read up on the details of the different security missions here: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage to find out what you'll be facing, plus recommendations on what type of damage to do and what types of damage to resist.

The details of the Blood Stained Stars missions are also available on that site under the "Epic Arcs" link.
Tzuke
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-07-12 08:52:48 UTC
There are a few hard level 2 missions I've come across...Recon and Blockade spring to mind so ditch them if they pop up. The same missions will pop up time and time again...so you will learn with time which are cake runs and which are risky. The sisters of Eve epic arc is a great way of making money...but you will still need decent skills etc to make it easier for yourself. If you try sisters of eve arc direct your in game browser to eve uni and search for the "blood stained stars" another name for the SOE arc. You will be able to see what you will be upgainst.

Don't feel so bad if your still doing level 1 missions. I'm still doing 2's while I have unlocked 4's heh. Sometimes you have to wait for skills isk etc to catch up with what you want to try next. I'd rather take a cautious approach than lose a ship it took me weeks to grind the isk for. I'd rather do lower level missions with relative ease than take out my shiny new ship only to find my energy runs out quickly due to poor skills.

I also took the approach to buy a plex (16 quid) and sold it on the market for 850 mill isk to take the pressure off grinding isk. If you take this approach and buy a plex make sure you claim the plex in the station your selling it...don't undock with it in your hold.

Playing Eve is a marathon and not a sprint. There are a myriad of skills to learn and just as you think your on the road to unlocking a new ship you'll find more pre req skills are needed first

Just take your time..I just read help chat, eve uni chat while running missions gaining tips and asking for ship builds which you can save so you know what skills etc you need to complete it for yourself
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#5 - 2016-07-12 12:02:23 UTC
The original rule #1 - which I think you might have better luck with, is: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose

Although I realize this is very similar to "Don't fly what you can't afford to replace" - it is not the same thing.

You can buy/fit/fly a cruiser for your level 2 missions, or any other use you want to put it to - just be aware that you could lose it for one reason or another any time you undock it. As such - don't go selling your destroyer to get the money or anything - you need a backup ship you can hop into if it blows up. But you don't actually have to wait until you can buy/fit *2* cruisers just to buy/fit the first one - you'll earn the money faster if you start using it ASAP.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-07-12 12:09:50 UTC
missiles take a sharp drop in damage when you're moving faster, does your coercer have an afterburner?
Memphis Baas
#7 - 2016-07-12 13:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
FYI, destroyers have the armor and shields of a frigate, but larger size. And actually their size (signature radius) is so balanced that they tend to take full damage from heavy (cruiser sized) missiles, whereas a frigate gets built-in damage reduction simply due to its small size. This is the concept of a "speed tank" - it's not just speed, it's also signature radius (vs. the signature resolution of the weapon aimed at you); keep this in mind, it applies a lot to frigates and destroyers.

Also keep in mind that Target Painter modules, although not as glamorous as the complete stun that ECM jamming accomplishes, can completely ruin an enemy's sig. radius and make them much more vulnerable to your big missiles (which have a tendency to one-shot small targets). So target painting is a possible counter to a speed / signature tank.

For level 2 missions, if you're switching to a cruiser, you're also switching basic tactics: frigates are all about speed and being mobile, cruisers are about actual tank, and the ability to sit there and take the punishment. So, shield or armor repairer, 2 resistance modules to match the weapons that the NPC's will shoot you with (you can read this before each mission if you use a spoiler website such as eve-survival.org), and utility modules such as target painters, webifiers, etc., because you won't have the speed to chase frigates around the space.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8 - 2016-07-12 14:34:55 UTC
instead of upgrading from a destroyer, I'd recommend training into a confessor. T3 destroyers are extremely versatile, and you will use a confessor for a lot more than simply missions.

A confessor can run level 3's, is very useful in combat exploration as well as PvP, so it's far from a waste to train it.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#9 - 2016-07-12 14:37:50 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
instead of upgrading from a destroyer, I'd recommend training into a confessor. T3 destroyers are extremely versatile, and you will use a confessor for a lot more than simply missions.

A confessor can run level 3's, is very useful in combat exploration as well as PvP, so it's far from a waste to train it.

This is actually an excellent suggestion - though I'm guessing the OP already has the skills for the cruiser and will take a week or so to train into a confessor - still worth doing it, it'll be much more useful in the long run.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#10 - 2016-07-12 14:54:25 UTC
Many here may not know what a new character starts out with now. You actually start out with much higher core skills than many vets ever did. Essentially you get about 2-3 weeks of free training in core skills before you even kill your first ship. This makes it quite easy to get a character into cruiser and you should be able to easily get into a cruiser within a week of training time.

The rule of " you shouldnt fly what you cant afford to lose" always applies.

Some tips:
1) Use a fitting program such as eft or pyfa( which can be found in the ships and modules sub forum) can really help you. They are basically requirements for this game.
2) Make sure you are doing rat spec resist. Resist is everything on tanking ability.
3) Use a site such as eve survival to get mission "reports" That tell you what you will be facing per mission, what to shoot and what to resist( for amarr missions this should pretty much always be em/therm for both).
4) if you want to make decent money fast, buy a cheap scan frig, the magnate for amarr. grab you a core probe launcher and 8 core probes a data analyzer and a relic analyzer( make sure you can use these, should be able too) and scan down some data and relic sites. Usually you will make at least 500k in loot off one site and sometimes as much as a few million. You should be able to scan and run 3-4 sites an hour. Just stay out of busy areas and ignore combat, wormhole, and gas site sigs if they come up.

Elsia Hitami
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2016-07-12 15:29:53 UTC
Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I snagged pyfa because fitting juggling was becoming a nightmare and I threw up my character sheet so if you can have a peek at my skills and queue, maybe offer some help there:

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Elsia_Hitami

I will def look into the spec resistances!

I'll check into the confessor thing, sounds fun.

I actually have a magnate and probes|analyzer so when I get tired of fighting I will get into scanning.

Again huge thank you!
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#12 - 2016-07-12 15:41:57 UTC
Elsia Hitami wrote:
Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I snagged pyfa because fitting juggling was becoming a nightmare and I threw up my character sheet so if you can have a peek at my skills and queue, maybe offer some help there:

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Elsia_Hitami

I will def look into the spec resistances!

I'll check into the confessor thing, sounds fun.

I actually have a magnate and probes|analyzer so when I get tired of fighting I will get into scanning.

Again huge thank you!


As much as it isn't fun (ie, you don't get to sit in new ships), train your core skills up. That means, armor (since you are amarr), engineering and navigation skills. One reason you will have tough times on missions is low core skills. Get hull upgrades to level 5 so that you can fit T2 armor, I'd get armor layering to level 4, EM/thermal/explosive/kinetic armor compensation to level 3, mechanics to level 4.

Get pretty much all engineering and navigation skills to level 3/4 (excluding capital specific and jump drive oriented skills), then get gunnery skills up so that you can use T2 guns.

It sounds strange compared to other games to ignore moving to bigger and better ships, but you will be much happier and it will be a lot easier to play this game if you spend some time focusing on those base skills. They apply to every ship you will fly for the rest of the game.

When I get home and can log into the game, I'll send you a few items that will help. Particularly learning implants, which will make training new skills go faster.
Mindrago Aldent
Spacetramp Industries
#13 - 2016-07-12 15:55:58 UTC
Sent you a gift, have fun.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#14 - 2016-07-12 16:05:28 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Elsia Hitami wrote:
Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I snagged pyfa because fitting juggling was becoming a nightmare and I threw up my character sheet so if you can have a peek at my skills and queue, maybe offer some help there:

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Elsia_Hitami

I will def look into the spec resistances!

I'll check into the confessor thing, sounds fun.

I actually have a magnate and probes|analyzer so when I get tired of fighting I will get into scanning.

Again huge thank you!


As much as it isn't fun (ie, you don't get to sit in new ships), train your core skills up. That means, armor (since you are amarr), engineering and navigation skills. One reason you will have tough times on missions is low core skills. Get hull upgrades to level 5 so that you can fit T2 armor, I'd get armor layering to level 4, EM/thermal/explosive/kinetic armor compensation to level 3, mechanics to level 4.

Get pretty much all engineering and navigation skills to level 3/4 (excluding capital specific and jump drive oriented skills), then get gunnery skills up so that you can use T2 guns.

It sounds strange compared to other games to ignore moving to bigger and better ships, but you will be much happier and it will be a lot easier to play this game if you spend some time focusing on those base skills. They apply to every ship you will fly for the rest of the game.

When I get home and can log into the game, I'll send you a few items that will help. Particularly learning implants, which will make training new skills go faster.



I use EFT instead of pyfa so results may vary but what i normally do:

1) The next ship i want to fly, i fit in EFT with an all level 5 character and all t2 mods until i am happy with the fit.
2) I switch to the character i want to fly the ship.
3) I train the skills EFT says i need to use that ship and all items i have fitted.
4) I modify my fit to my liking once im happy with my training for that fit. The way i usually modify a fit is i replace some t2 with faction and deadspace mods. depending on the fit and what im using the ship for depends on what i replace.

Fitting all t2 on many ships can be difficult even on an all level 5 character. Sometimes you have to sacrifice less important things and down grade them down to a t1 version to make everything fit. The other option is to use mods/rigs to increase PG/CPU. However, you can skirt many of these issues by using faction and deadspace modules. Getting better performance with less PG/CPU requirements than t2. The tradeoff is the cost. So you pick and choose your trade offs.

I found this method works quite well. When im not training for a new ship/fit i will train random useful skills, Working getting a skill i only need to 3 up to 4 or 4 to 5. Working on other random skills for side professions, etc.
Elsia Hitami
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-07-12 16:12:53 UTC
Mindrago Aldent wrote:
Sent you a gift, have fun.

Whoa, very kind - thank you!
Elsia Hitami
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-07-12 16:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsia Hitami
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Elsia Hitami wrote:
Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I snagged pyfa because fitting juggling was becoming a nightmare and I threw up my character sheet so if you can have a peek at my skills and queue, maybe offer some help there:

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Elsia_Hitami

I will def look into the spec resistances!

I'll check into the confessor thing, sounds fun.

I actually have a magnate and probes|analyzer so when I get tired of fighting I will get into scanning.

Again huge thank you!


As much as it isn't fun (ie, you don't get to sit in new ships), train your core skills up. That means, armor (since you are amarr), engineering and navigation skills. One reason you will have tough times on missions is low core skills. Get hull upgrades to level 5 so that you can fit T2 armor, I'd get armor layering to level 4, EM/thermal/explosive/kinetic armor compensation to level 3, mechanics to level 4.

Get pretty much all engineering and navigation skills to level 3/4 (excluding capital specific and jump drive oriented skills), then get gunnery skills up so that you can use T2 guns.

It sounds strange compared to other games to ignore moving to bigger and better ships, but you will be much happier and it will be a lot easier to play this game if you spend some time focusing on those base skills. They apply to every ship you will fly for the rest of the game.

When I get home and can log into the game, I'll send you a few items that will help. Particularly learning implants, which will make training new skills go faster.


Thanks for the insights, the bigger is better thing is a hard trend to buck ;) Your generosity isn't required but always appreciated!
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#17 - 2016-07-12 18:36:08 UTC
I agree with sonya, i actually use a confessor for blitzing low level agents to get standings.
Fantastic ship, realy strong in pvp too.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2016-07-12 19:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
There is one level 2 mission you should NEVER try to do in a tech 1 destroyer:

Mission Of Mercy

You have to deal with 6 cruisers and 6 frigates at the same time.

It is by far the most difficult level 2 mission. I recommend completing it in a cruiser fitted with long range SMALLcruiser-sized weapons [i.e. rapid light launchers, rapid firing multi-barrel beam / rail / artillery turrets for 50m signatures].

EDIT: FYI, I've done it in an artillery Thrasher (t1 minmatar destroyer). It wasn't easy, and I'm not sane. I had to warp-out a lot, and overheat everything. I lost an autocannon Rupture (t1 minmatar cruiser) in this mission, but fit the next one with artillery (long range) and it was a piece of cake; still have that arty Rupture.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#19 - 2016-07-12 20:25:41 UTC
You've been given some great advice, however, one thing to add on is that you shouldn't be afraid of a cruiser either. They do take some skill on your part to outfit correctly but they can be outfitted fairly cheap just by ratting some of the lower HiSec systems (0.5 to 0.7). Taking on Refuge sites with a T1 destroyer is more than possible. Refuge sites when salavaged can drop some decent systems that are useful to a T1 Cruiser, costing you nothing but time and getting useful experience at the same time.

Advice for T1 Cruisers, armor or shield them for the foes you are taking on. Do not try to do any of the multi-adjustable defense systems. First, they are very expensive to purchase and operate (capacitor wise), and Second, if your target isn't doing that damage type, it's wasted points. Adjustables are more for PvP (when you have no idea what you'll be facing) and for T2 cruisers that can handle the greater power requirements.

Also, use a fitting system (I use O.smium.org) to help you outfit your ship. There are a bunch of versions of ships others have done and you might find one suited for mission running. Be careful of the very expensive looking ships, they also tend to require higher skills on your behalf to use fully.

I've found the cruisers are the most versatile ships I've yet flown. They can take on small targets like Frigates, and even larger targets like BattleCruisers (if you are fit correctly and know what you are doing). You can then run away from the big stuff like Battleships and larger.

I enjoy all the smaller ships, Cruisers and lower, but find that Cruisers can tackle almost any target in HiSec space.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2016-07-12 23:50:36 UTC
All good info.

Just wanted to add don't be in a rush to jump into a larger ship class. There's no shame in staying in a Frigate / Destroyer and continue doing level 1 missions while you train up Core Fitting Skills.

Add in basic low level Exploration sites - Cosmic Anomalies (Hideaway and Burrows) - Cosmic Signatures (Hideout, Lookout, DED 1/10 and DED 2/10) as well as the Level 1 Sisters Of Eve Epic Arc (Repeatable every 90 days) and you can have a lot of fun, collect some good loot and make ISK while training up those skills.

I stayed in a Tech 1 Frigate for my first 9 months playing this game and max trained every skill that pertained to it before I jumped into a larger hull class. That actually made it easy to skip a couple of hull classes and I went straight into Battlecruiser.

Course while training up skills I also upgraded my Frigate ship fit from basic Tech 1 modules to Tech 2 and then eventually into Faction / Deadspace modules. After each ship fit upgrade I was also able to easily complete the next level of missions. By the end of the 9 months I was completing Level 3 Security missions in a Tech 1 Frigate within the bonus time.

I'm sure it can be done in less time now since CCP has removed and or condensed a lot of skills / game content since then. Point is just take your time and enjoy the game. Getting in a rush usually leads to mistakes that could be costly.


DMC
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