EVE General Discussion

I probably haven't made it clear.


But Mercenaries really don't want the watchlist back. We understand why the change was made. Generally we just don't like having to either camp a hub. Or randomly look into the backwater of highsec to try and find a group we paid to shoot at.

If locator agents would only run on online characters that would fix it for me. And highsec wouldn't've changed.

I would also like to stress that not ALL Highsec wardecers want to just shoot the missioning battleship (Although loot piñata's are wonderful) Or the idiot industrial.

I don't, I prefer a fight. I don't like the way Highsec has become, a year ago, I was getting into huge (By highsec standards) fleet fights, 7 spider-tanked Domi's verse 20 drakes, and living, or the the domi fleet bashing a pos down after coming out unscathed from a 9 V 20.

A year ago, RvB took on the whole Mercenary Community. The mercs were fighting eachother. Small groups like mine where popping up everywere. The 'Carebears' would actually fight back. I've seen Ravens poor out of the Amarr undock like it was a faucet. People would actually fight.

Now, Highsec has stagnated into a mess. It's hollow.

Eve is a video game and one centered on space ship combat. We are suppose to shoot each other and build stuff to shoot each other. It is nothing like real life where peace is almost always better for everyone and thus war is not entered into lightly.

So much of Eve PvP is random and without reason. People roam around looking for fights, any fights, to stave of boredom. Even in the parts of Eve that have been contrived to engineer reasons to fight, like faction warfare, progress in the imaginary 'war' is almost always secondary to the random fights they produce on complexes and gates as people move around.

Highsec isn't any different. There are precious few, perhaps even zero reasons, to fight each other over some greater strategic goal. Resources are in far excess, and for every systems where that might not be true there, there are a 100 other systems in highsec that are near empty. Now that moons aren't valuable, the only thing that people might want to fight over are market hubs and so far that doesn't seem to be happening. The only reason to attack another player is out of boredom or a desire for the fight itself, just like almost everywhere else in Eve.

That is not bullying, lazy or poor. That is Eve. Players need to take the initiative to attack other players or nothing will happen. CCP has done a great job at providing a pretty universe and interesting mechanics to allow us to build and fight our spaceships. They have been much less successful at providing conflict drivers to get us to want to, or have to fight. Hopefully these new structures will change that, but so far, they are far too safe, and provide no unique or desirable bonuses or resources, to make anyone want to attack them. So people just keep building and wondering why they are getting bored of Eve since nothing interesting seems to happen. And then they quit.

Wardeccers who enjoy the fight itself and take the time and effort to create content are one of the few sources of interesting things happening in highsec. The watchlist nerf was a big one, and highsec is much less interesting because of it. The hunters can't find the prey, so they turn to just lying in wait to get any content at all.

So while I disagree with you that something is wrong because not every war has some greater meaning, I do agree with you that CCP really needs to focus on giving us reasons to fight not just in highsec, but everywhere. They can take a hands-off approach and say it is up to the players to generate the content in the sandbox, but if resources come so easily that everyone has everything they want, there is no reason to fight each other. The fights that do happen have no meaning, and no real consequence. Building forever at no real risk to the other players does not an interesting PvP game make, and Eve has been suffering under this give-players-whatever-they-want-to-not-ruin-anyone's-fun for too long and the game is stagnating.

I hope these new structures when fully implemented will provide some of those reasons and pull us out of the tailspin of inertia and stagnation that is taking hold, but on my pessimistic days I fear it is too late and the safety that is smothering New Eden has too strong a grip. CCP needs to shake something up, and soonish to get players to start risking things again and competing with each other and maybe a wardec revamp, complete with desirable objectives in highsec to fight over, could be part of that.

90% of wardeccers/gankers will never leave HS. On another account? Maybe, but definitely not with their wardec character

100% of Titan pilots will never roam solo in FW plexes. On another account? Maybe, but definitely not with their Titan character



And your point is....what exactly???

What is interesting is that both sides see the issue here even if they call each other names, well the HTFU players do most of the name calling. We can sit around doing a circle jerk and try to allocate blame and that would be a waste of time, for you its because we want safety, for us its because you want easy targets. Done dusted finished.

So what can CCP and us the players do, well a bit of honesty would be a good start, hmmmmm, ok that is not going to happen either...

We agree that there has to be somethng of value to fight for, but that is only part of the equation, just making that something of value be on the hisec indy corp is not going to fly is it.

As you know I have suggested that we need an OS that gives watchlist functionality in a constellation which will give something that a lowly hisec indy corp can interdict in return, while the new indy structures should have better yield for those that cannot be pulled down within 24 hours.

It is often not the direct major changes that create changes, but something that has a ripple affect and it will not happen overnight. The most important thing to note is that hisec has been over fished and coming back from its current state will be hard. CCP treats hisec like the red haired step child of Eve and it shows...

I disagree: The Wardeccers DON'T want a good fight. The OP named some deccing corps. When they want a good fight why not decc each other? If you want a good soccer match you invite a nearby soccer team. If you want to slaughter someone for the laughts you choose the chess club. That's exactly what happening in EVE with wardeccs.

Your playing style fits deccs, which is okay. Mission running and mining even more doesn't. You can't put a ship for hours stationary in space if you are decced but this is more or less exactly the definition of mining. So you are forcing your playstyle on someone else. Does he has the same ability to force mining on you? No. So this is one sided.
Second: Why should you fight when the oods are bad? Even if the other corps comes to fight you will dock up if they have the upper hand and the decc goes on. So this is one sided too.
There is no real solution for decced mining corps then either to pay or to disband. They can't fight back even if they try because the Deccers use the HS mechanics of docking up.

Deccs are used to rob and blackmail other other corps without get hits in the sec status. There is no reason to keep non consensual Wardeccs ingame. All the robbing and blackmailing can be done without a decc but you take hits to your secutity level.
If wardeccs should stay there must be some structure that the decced corp can destroy to stop the decc for something like 6 weeks. This way the deccing corp has to come out and fight or watch their deccs going down for a long time.

What is left in hisec, all the fresh young faces have decamped to Pandemic Horde or other similar entities bypassing hisec completely, so all you have left are the indy and logistic toons of 0.0 players and people who just cannot be bothered to fight because there is no point. Its those people who have been over fished and many left the game, CCP Fozzie talked about the noticeable loss of players from hisec.

I see quite a lot of suspect baiting going on, I also see kill rights used the same way, I never liked can flipping and the gotcha it provided on easy to kill ships. Though I did not drop can mine, it was stupid to do that in hisec imo. In all its fine, I cannot see CCP changing this.

Ganking is fine, the balance of mining ships is about right in terms of tanks and yields, plenty of people fit for yield and use less tanky ships and get blown up. The bumping stupidity looks like it will have a much needed mechanic change against what is awful gameplay. Before freighters ran around relatively safely and the game did not collapse, personally I find the freighter ganking fun to oppose, but I realised that as a ship class it was just not suitable for a player like me who likes to be hard to kill to use one, so I no longer use them. Looking at it once the bumping is sorted, it will be at a good level. Don't forget that those people moving Fortizers need to defend them, leaving them in a freighter with no escort to deal with the very professional gankers is madness. Ganking is getting close to what I think is a good balance and CCP will not remove ganking..

However one player made an important point, some player slike him and me have decided taht freighters are just not usable in hisec as the risk is too great and we have stopped using them, that attitude will deprive gankers of content, will you blame the game mechanics or over fishing. It would be a bit wrong to blame CCP and the mechanics for that.

The safety changes was much needed, many players had no faith in the mechanics having gone suspect at times for no discernible reasons, now I can compete in repping a freighter and I have no fears about being caught out by a gotcha, this has made people more willing to try things in hisec.

War decs, this needs a change, first of all due to the lack of prey almost all the mercs were doing blanket war decs and hunting the pipes and hubs. The removal of watch list in effect changes very little, it just removed the few that were still hunting and killing, and in affect they can still do it, it just takes more effort and more focus and perhaps more pay for their work.

Generating conflict if one sided does nothing, if all you do is force miners to fight a battle or war they will never win, they won't bother and if you make it so they have no choice they will leave the game.

My objective is to use the watch list removal to crate a conflict driver that merc entities will have to use and which can be attacked by the people they war decc'ed, so for example if they war dec me, they will find that two or three of their OS's will be toast, that gives people some way to fight back, having a chance of a victory as against no chance at all will change things, at least I hope so... The watch list needed to go, it was free intel at its worst, with an OS it will not be free. I have noticed taht there is more use of caps since the watch list went which is a very good thing...

I don't know where you get this idea that a large amount of people think that they are safe AFK'ing in hisec, that was never my attitude since I started playing and no one I talk to in AG thinks that way either, we come across the odd person oblivious to the risk blindy AFK'ing and once we saved a DST and repped him up and escorted him on his autopiloting way to Amarr from Jita, it was me who did the final escort to Amarr and repped up his structure. We found it a huge laugh... Do you honestly think we want to lose such fun.

Constant whine threads provide anecdotal evidence, and as someone who both mines and hauls I see an awful lot of people doing it while afk; dropping out of warp at 15km is a giveaway, as is the miner in the belt who hasn't touched a roid in 40 minutes; hell people afk mine and haul while under a wardec, because hisec is "safe".

I never suggested it was, I may not like the stance that you and AG take on many things but I do give you some credit.

The people that you do save don't give enough of a shite to even make an attempt to save themselves, why bother? All you're doing is delaying an explosion and possible rage quit thread.

Although if you find it fun, keep at it, fun is after all the primary purpose of entertainment.

This thread is about wardecs, not super pilots. Stay on topic. My point is you can avoid wardecs by PvE-ing in LS/null/WHs, I've done it for years. HS wardeccers will almost never follow.

That's not a dig against them, they have no interest in anything but HS. Avoid their playstyle and you an avoid the wardec.

focused wardecs were gutted for mewling super pilots, that is the topic.