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Suggestion for combatting market & spam bots
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#1 - 2016-07-02 23:23:32 UTC
Both market bots and spam bots can often be detected by the frequency with which they either update market orders or post messages in local, respectively.

Therefore, it should be possible to simply count how many updates/post are being made, within a certain period of time. If the frequency exceeds a certain number (for example, 10 market updates to the same item within an hour or 30 identical posts to local within 30 minutes, then one or more events could be triggered to occur:

1) an additional confirmation pop-up, saying something like "this is the Nth time you've done this in the past X minutes, please confirm that you want to do it again";

2) a service charge, which increases with each triggered event within another time window (so, the first time, you get billed 1M ISK, the second time is 2M ISK, then 4M ISK, and so on - thias should drive most bots into negative ISK wallets quickly);

3) a "I'm not a robot" app

Since most bots operate permanently from a NPC station, another option would be to:

4) eject the toon from the NPC station, with a Suspect flag

This won't affect most human players, but will make it more difficult for bots to operate.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-07-02 23:24:12 UTC
Roll
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#3 - 2016-07-03 00:54:34 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Roll


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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2016-07-03 07:04:28 UTC
Am I a bot if I update my 100 orders 12 times per hour (the maximum possible number), or in other words if I update each of my orders every permissible 5 minutes?

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Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2016-07-03 07:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Am I a bot if I update my 100 orders 12 times per hour (the maximum possible number), or in other words if I update each of my orders every permissible 5 minutes?

According to OP, you're a bot if you update your orders 10 times an hour, so yes.

Apparently OP thinks that people who actually pay attention to their market orders are all bots, and wants to punish them for actually playing the game.

Sizeof Void wrote:
This won't affect most human players, but will make it more difficult for bots to operate.

This is incorrect. Your ideas will not impact bots in any meaningful way. They already have randomization routines built into them to prevent detection by pattern recognition algorithms, and most bots are better at "I'm not a robot" scripts than humans are. It's the human players that will suffer from false reports of the pattern recognition and the wasted time of dealing with the scripts.
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Hookers N' Blow
#6 - 2016-07-04 15:22:38 UTC
There needs to be some other relatively minor changes to markets which will have larger impacts.

Like minimum Tick size... If something is 1,000,000,000 having a tick increment of 0.01 isk is pretty brutal. Would help with the bots a bit as well.

Other change would be "min qty" changes. Again small change which helps avoid some of the marketing scams and general irritation.
Iain Cariaba
#7 - 2016-07-04 17:03:20 UTC
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:
There needs to be some other relatively minor changes to markets which will have larger impacts.

Like minimum Tick size... If something is 1,000,000,000 having a tick increment of 0.01 isk is pretty brutal. Would help with the bots a bit as well.

Other change would be "min qty" changes. Again small change which helps avoid some of the marketing scams and general irritation.



In a competitive market system like Jita, I have never made a price change more than 0.01 is off the best. I see no need to cut my own profits any more than absolutely necessary. I have pulled market order down because the going price was unacceptable to my profit margin. Does that make me greedy? Well, if it does, I'm perfectly okay with that. Business is business. There are many, many others just like me in EvE. Just because you don't play the markets that way doesn't make it a bad thing.

Changing minimum quantity would have no impact on bots either. Bots don't create the buy orders that are used for the market scam. Removing minimum quantity isn't necessarily a bad thing, but using bots as justification to remove the ability to run that scam is disingenuous.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-07-05 13:15:40 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:
There needs to be some other relatively minor changes to markets which will have larger impacts.

Like minimum Tick size... If something is 1,000,000,000 having a tick increment of 0.01 isk is pretty brutal. Would help with the bots a bit as well.

Other change would be "min qty" changes. Again small change which helps avoid some of the marketing scams and general irritation.



In a competitive market system like Jita, I have never made a price change more than 0.01 is off the best. I see no need to cut my own profits any more than absolutely necessary. I have pulled market order down because the going price was unacceptable to my profit margin. Does that make me greedy? Well, if it does, I'm perfectly okay with that. Business is business. There are many, many others just like me in EvE. Just because you don't play the markets that way doesn't make it a bad thing.

Changing minimum quantity would have no impact on bots either. Bots don't create the buy orders that are used for the market scam. Removing minimum quantity isn't necessarily a bad thing, but using bots as justification to remove the ability to run that scam is disingenuous.


Only thing I dislike about people like you who babysit their order is when some of them think it's necessary to send me EVE-mails about how much I am playing the game wrong by deep undercutting when I just want my stuff to sell without having to do the whole order babysitting thing.
Ben Ishikela
#9 - 2016-07-05 22:40:37 UTC
CCPlease, just implement Market AoE already.

In short (i found this idea on reddit):
if buying from sell order, picks all sellorders in 1%range, every item is a ticket for the lottery about which order gets the handshake.
EZ.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.