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Capital Hull Energizer + Weapon use
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
#1 - 2016-07-01 13:07:44 UTC
The capital hull energizer is pretty damn good and adds some interesting gameplay.

However i'd say it's perhaps a tiny bit too good;

I think the use of weapons should be disallowed while its active.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-07-01 13:41:33 UTC
All eighteen seconds? Any particular reason for this or do you just like to reload while someone's DDng you?
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#3 - 2016-07-01 13:43:47 UTC
Being invulnerable while still being able to apply damage feels like bad design to me. Can't think of another instance in eve where this is the case....could be wrong.
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#4 - 2016-07-01 13:48:18 UTC
yeah the time it adds is way to short, the whole point is so you have a bit more time to go out with a few bangs. more for doomsday protection then anything and not every day combat i would think.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-07-01 13:48:54 UTC
...for eighteen seconds. Once.

~180k damage, assuming a max skilled, t2 fit dread.

That's kind of nothing in a cap fight.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#6 - 2016-07-01 14:11:54 UTC
Dat one doomsday that got through, Danika.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#7 - 2016-07-01 14:44:07 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
...for eighteen seconds. Once.

~180k damage, assuming a max skilled, t2 fit dread.

That's kind of nothing in a cap fight.


That's really not nothing, especially when you multiply that by the size of the dread fleet and then consider that all that dmg is done in god-mode and would not otherwise have been applied.

I'm not saying you're completely wrong though as I do get where you're coming from; something just feels a little off for me, trying to put a finger on it and I think it's probably the overall concept of having an invulnerability timer and being able to continue to act offensively in general.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2016-07-01 14:46:32 UTC
The Economist wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
...for eighteen seconds. Once.

~180k damage, assuming a max skilled, t2 fit dread.

That's kind of nothing in a cap fight.


That's really not nothing, especially when you multiply that by the size of the dread fleet and then consider that all that dmg is done in god-mode and would not otherwise have been applied.

I'm not saying you're completely wrong though as I do get where you're coming from; something just feels a little off for me, trying to put a finger on it and I think it's probably the overall concept of having an invulnerability timer and being able to continue to act offensively in general.



But if you have an entire dread fleet use their one shot only anti-doomsday module at once, what do you think is going to happen once the eighteen seconds are up?
Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2016-07-01 15:04:21 UTC
The Economist wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
...for eighteen seconds. Once.

~180k damage, assuming a max skilled, t2 fit dread.

That's kind of nothing in a cap fight.


That's really not nothing, especially when you multiply that by the size of the dread fleet and then consider that all that dmg is done in god-mode and would not otherwise have been applied.

I'm not saying you're completely wrong though as I do get where you're coming from; something just feels a little off for me, trying to put a finger on it and I think it's probably the overall concept of having an invulnerability timer and being able to continue to act offensively in general.


It feels like you just feel this is unfair without being able to find a use-case where it actually is unfair, let alone a case where it's actually breaking anything.

Plus if you use it while you still have Armor or Shields remaining it does effectively nothing.

I'm just not seeing the case for this being super OP. In a fight between sub-caps and a few capitals that the enemy can shoot during that timer, if you've already got them down to hull, is going to be pretty insignificant and it won't let them rep any better so they'll still be at hull when it ends, and in a cap fight it's basically just good for tanking one DD if you're lucky and nothing else.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#10 - 2016-07-01 15:46:22 UTC
The Economist wrote:
Being invulnerable while still being able to apply damage feels like bad design to me. Can't think of another instance in eve where this is the case....could be wrong.




Off grid boosting comes to mind.
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#11 - 2016-07-01 16:21:54 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The Economist wrote:
Being invulnerable while still being able to apply damage feels like bad design to me. Can't think of another instance in eve where this is the case....could be wrong.




Off grid boosting comes to mind.



off grid boosting adds very little when it comes to large fights since both sides do it, not to mention that is going away.
but having 18 seconds of extra time is not going to do much harm.
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#12 - 2016-07-01 16:31:31 UTC
Somebody is upset about losing their titans.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#13 - 2016-07-01 18:12:06 UTC
The only situations in which this module are really useful are the following:

1. Surviving a single Doomsday. This will usually be something that occurs only in Titan gank situations. As a Titan pilot, I am generally already screwed if I have Dreadnoughts on me and no friends on hand. If he wants to fit in a way that denies me a final grunge DD, good for him. The thing is rather hard to fit.
2. Surviving the last few seconds of a siege/triage timer. In which case I won't be doing much DPS or remote repairing once I am out of that mode, so doing damage for the last 18-20 seconds seems kind of moot.
3. Surviving the last few seconds of an aggro timer on a gate or station. In which case I have already deaggressed and I am not doing damage anyway.

Which is all to say I think the current situation is fine.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#14 - 2016-07-01 23:20:29 UTC
Goons are against anything that doesnt let them dreadbomb(read blob) their way back into null.

I dont think it should give "invulnerability" on principle. Once you start stuff like this it opens the door for more of the same type of trash play. If you can shoot stuff and damage it, stuff should be able to shoot you and damage you. That underlying principle should never change, i dont care how hard it is to fit or how short of a duration it is.
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#15 - 2016-07-02 17:18:18 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
If you can shoot stuff and damage it, stuff should be able to shoot you and damage you. That underlying principle should never change, i dont care how hard it is to fit or how short of a duration it is.



That's kind of my point. I have no problem with the temp invulnerability. The mod burns out, ok. Forces hostile to switch targets, cool. Potentially gives time for reps to be focused on you and might get you forgotten as a target long enough to get to 100%, cool. Can add interesting depth of gameplay and I kind of like it.

Being able to continue fragging while in god-mod however doesn't seem to tally with anything else in eve and sounds more like a console cheat code than anything else.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2016-07-02 17:47:20 UTC
The Economist wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
If you can shoot stuff and damage it, stuff should be able to shoot you and damage you. That underlying principle should never change, i dont care how hard it is to fit or how short of a duration it is.



That's kind of my point. I have no problem with the temp invulnerability. The mod burns out, ok. Forces hostile to switch targets, cool. Potentially gives time for reps to be focused on you and might get you forgotten as a target long enough to get to 100%, cool. Can add interesting depth of gameplay and I kind of like it.

Being able to continue fragging while in god-mod however doesn't seem to tally with anything else in eve and sounds more like a console cheat code than anything else.



Good thing you can't be repped in siege then, isn't it. I suppose you can use it with a carrier, but then you'll just die eighteen seconds after you turn it on, to guns instead of a DD. (and frankly, if the titans are DDing carriers, the fights mostly done anyway)

What are you going to kill in EIGHTEEN SECONDS in a cap brawl anyway? Nothing in a capital fight has less than the 180k damage you can do in that situation, assuming perfect hits and 0 resistances.

Is a dread in hull really that hard to kill once the eighteen seconds have passed and you can happily unload into it's zero resistance structure hp? It'll take less than that eighteen seconds for one to die to another dread anyway. A titan will kill you even faster, with just it's guns.

It's not god mode, it's a last ditch, single use anti doomsday module. That's it. It does nothing to your armour of shield HP, so if you're taking any other kind of fire you're not going to be repping yourself up in your eighteen second window. If you're in siege or triage, RR doesn't work on you, so that's not going to save you either.

I honestly don't see what the problem is with the thing. Hell, with MY NAGLFAR it's four cycles of it's guns. Not even worth changing targets for.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2016-07-08 12:10:16 UTC
.... no change needed they are good for all of one DD

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-07-08 13:13:34 UTC
The Economist wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
...for eighteen seconds. Once.

~180k damage, assuming a max skilled, t2 fit dread.

That's kind of nothing in a cap fight.


That's really not nothing, especially when you multiply that by the size of the dread fleet and then consider that all that dmg is done in god-mode and would not otherwise have been applied.

I'm not saying you're completely wrong though as I do get where you're coming from; something just feels a little off for me, trying to put a finger on it and I think it's probably the overall concept of having an invulnerability timer and being able to continue to act offensively in general.


Change target once it get used and by the time your second target use it, cycle back to some guy who already burned it to clear him off the field without shooting into a damage black hole.

What would be the point of the module if it only put you in stasis unable to do anything? What's the point of lasting 18 more seconds on grid if you can't use those 18 seconds?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-07-08 13:15:36 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


What are you going to kill in EIGHTEEN SECONDS in a cap brawl anyway? Nothing in a capital fight has less than the 180k damage you can do in that situation, assuming perfect hits and 0 resistances.



Pretty sure every ship has 33% resist across the board in hull by now.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-07-08 13:22:07 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:


What are you going to kill in EIGHTEEN SECONDS in a cap brawl anyway? Nothing in a capital fight has less than the 180k damage you can do in that situation, assuming perfect hits and 0 resistances.



Pretty sure every ship has 33% resist across the board in hull by now.



I know, I just couldn't be bothered to do the maths. 180k raw damage is going to do **** all in a cap fight anyway, regardless of hull resists