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Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

First post First post First post
Author
Jessika Lee
Perkone
Caldari State
#321 - 2016-06-27 13:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessika Lee
It's clear that maintain the browser up to date for the game developer - a waste of time, but may there is no need to update it?

Just freeze it in the current state of development and let the developers of thematic web-resources keep in mind this aspect - I don't think it will stop them.

P.S. Using third party software like Overwolf is a bad idea - it will not replace IGB functionality, the main task of such tools - provide though any possibility of use external program services where it is not provided at all

P.P.S. to separate in-game designed and full-featured web-pages just add extra parsing to the in-game chat for internet address line:
http://... or https://... - launch external browser
htip://... or htips://... - open with in-game browser
and provide to store it in bookmarks with same prefixes
Darkblad
#322 - 2016-06-27 13:54:56 UTC
How to kill the IGB

Open that in-game. The "current" (ha!) state just deserves to get removed.
Jessika Lee
Perkone
Caldari State
#323 - 2016-06-27 14:02:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessika Lee
Darkblad wrote:
How to kill the IGB

Open that in-game. The "current" (ha!) state just deserves to get removed.


- Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
- Don't do that.

P.S. I'm absolutely sure about you can find such pages for any existing browser - let's delete all of it.
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#324 - 2016-06-27 18:39:08 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
How to kill the IGB
Open that in-game. The "current" (ha!) state just deserves to get improved.


Fixed that for you.
Do you know how many people used your website with the ingame browser? What are you doing now to ensure the same functionality with your website ingame through overlays (or better solutions) or will you just ignore that and let people go the forced inconvenience route from third party programs to clumsily access Crest?
bucegi
Firman AB
#325 - 2016-06-28 18:52:33 UTC
I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going..............................
Speared
Let's annoy'em
#326 - 2016-06-28 20:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Speared
So I'm wasting my Hours for PLEX on this as my subscriptions are cancelled.

The point of this post isn't too keep the IGB at all costs though, but to keep the important functionality it offers NRDS pilots from within the game.

Being an NRDS solo pvp whiner I jump into a 0.0 system full of neuts. In order to check for hostiles without the In-Game Browser functionality I would have to:
- Copy local to clipboard
- Alt+Tab to the external browser
- Paste the results into KOS checker
- Find out that only one of the characters was checked
- Alt+Tab back to game
- Copy one name
- Alt+Tab back to the browser
- Type/Paste the name
- Check which entity is KOS (character, corp, or alliance)
- Copy the name of the entity
- Alt+Tab back to game
- Paste the entity name in some input field
- Link the entity so I can set standings
- Click on the created link in order to set the standing
- Copy another neut's name into clipboard
- Alt+Tab back to the KOS checker
- Paste the pilot name into the KOS checker
- Check if the pilot is KOS and which entity exactly
- and so it goes for each neutral character in the system...
- ...

The current IGB offers the following:
- Copy local
- Paste into KOS checker without having to Alt+Tab
- Click on each red entity to call the show info window
- Set standings on the fly
- Hunt them down

So to sum it up:
In-Game Browser functionality in game = NRDS PVP FUN.
versus
No In-Game Broswer functionality in game = lots of Alt+Tabbing in order to identify who the enemy is and their numbers. Should there be no enemies the whole thing would have to be repeated for every system you jump into meaning lots of administrative Alt+Tab BULL in NRDS while being Safed-up or Ship Spinning in station instead of the pvp.
NO THANK YOU CCP. SUBSCRIPTIONS CANCELLED.
Agent Khanid
Cohortes Vigilum
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#327 - 2016-06-28 21:29:09 UTC
please we need igb
Twisted
Jessika Lee
Perkone
Caldari State
#328 - 2016-06-28 23:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessika Lee
bucegi wrote:
I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going..............................

You are mistaken, believing that scripted manipulation of virtual camera using already existing game engine can match the complexity with the development of actual web browser that supports dozens of different technologies, developing independently

We need to decide what it is we want from the built-in browser:

firstly, we need to display simple hypertext documents with images and basic interface support;

secondly - a means of interaction with external services processing API requests;

third - data transfer from external services through a browser into the game (feats, interface settings, standings, etc);

fourth - in the future we would like to see in-game option (via context menu) to export data into the currently active IGB window through a standardized set of variables (character / star system name, fully qualified (region-constellation-system-orbit-satellite) object coordinates, etc);

fifth - the specification of IGB supported standards and features.

All the other bells and whistles can be safely removed - IGB is an expansion tool for data storage / processing, not a full-featured browser.
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#329 - 2016-06-28 23:31:34 UTC
Jessika Lee wrote:
bucegi wrote:
I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going..............................

You are mistaken, believing that scripted manipulation of virtual camera using already existing game engine can match the complexity with the development of actual web browser that supports dozens of different technologies, developing independently

We need to decide what it is we want from the built-in browser:

firstly, we need to display simple hypertext documents with images and basic interface support;

secondly - a means of interaction with external services, processing API requests;

third - data transfer from external services through a browser game (feats, interface settings, standings, etc);

fourth - in the future we would like to see in-game option (via context menu) to export data into the currently active IGB window through a standardized set of variables (character / star system name, fully qualified (region-constellation-system-orbit-satellite) object coordinates, etc);

fifth - the specification of IGB supported standards and features.

All the other bells and whistles can be safely removed - IGB is an expansion tool for data storage / processing, not a full-featured browser.


You're mistaken if you think that CCP ever actually developed the browser. It's a variant on Chromium, the development comes in wrapping it into Eve, they didn't develop the browser. If they had actually developed it from scratch then it's removal would be even more baffling due to the time they'd have thrown into doing so.

What they really need is some work on making it much easier to apply any security patches/updates to flash or shockwave/silverlight or whatever else is required. If you think for a moment that CCP developed that browser from scratch and the attendant technologies that went with then, you are sadly mistaken. That's what's so disappointing about this decision.
Jessika Lee
Perkone
Caldari State
#330 - 2016-06-28 23:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessika Lee
Cismet wrote:
You're mistaken if you think that CCP ever actually developed the browser. It's a variant on Chromium, the development comes in wrapping it into Eve, they didn't develop the browser. If they had actually developed it from scratch then it's removal would be even more baffling due to the time they'd have thrown into doing so.

What they really need is some work on making it much easier to apply any security patches/updates to flash or shockwave/silverlight or whatever else is required. If you think for a moment that CCP developed that browser from scratch and the attendant technologies that went with then, you are sadly mistaken. That's what's so disappointing about this decision.

In this case it is enough to change the browser Chromium at something is simpler, development of that stopped 5 years ago or so it.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#331 - 2016-06-29 05:48:32 UTC
Jessika Lee wrote:
[quote=bucegi]
third - data transfer from external services through a browser into the game (feats, interface settings, standings, etc);

fourth - in the future we would like to see in-game option (via context menu) to export data into the currently active IGB window through a standardized set of variables (character / star system name, fully qualified (region-constellation-system-orbit-satellite) object coordinates, etc);

fifth - the specification of IGB supported standards and features.

All the other bells and whistles can be safely removed - IGB is an expansion tool for data storage / processing, not a full-featured browser.

Third will be, IMHO, covered by Crest. Fourth would be nice to have but IMHO overkill because the side can get these infos through CREST when it has the name.
The irony is, that CCP implemented a tool that allows thrid party tools easy access to EVE's datas but removes the option to see it ingame. It's like changing the gearbox for higher performance but removing the gear lever at the same time. Whats the use of a shiny CREST if you can't access the sides using it?
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#332 - 2016-06-29 17:20:51 UTC
Removal of the IGB will probably lead to the same consequence as the Removal of the < 24 skill training que Roll

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#333 - 2016-06-29 17:31:55 UTC
bucegi wrote:
I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going..............................


You have to ask the CEO that imho, ultimately CCP Hellmar is responsible for gaining or losing Customers Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#334 - 2016-06-29 18:27:36 UTC
Would it be possible to have the Necom button launch the system default browser the way links will from now on?

Maybe even as a shell process inside the client so we don't have to deal with Alt+Tab BS on single monitor setups?
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#335 - 2016-06-29 18:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
Speared wrote:
So I'm wasting my Hours for PLEX on this as my subscriptions are cancelled.

The point of this post isn't too keep the IGB at all costs though, but to keep the important functionality it offers NRDS pilots from within the game.

Being an NRDS solo pvp whiner I jump into a 0.0 system full of neuts. In order to check for hostiles without the In-Game Browser functionality I would have to:
- Copy local to clipboard
- Alt+Tab to the external browser
- Paste the results into KOS checker
- Find out that only one of the characters was checked
- Alt+Tab back to game
- Copy one name
- Alt+Tab back to the browser
- Type/Paste the name
- Check which entity is KOS (character, corp, or alliance)
- Copy the name of the entity
- Alt+Tab back to game
- Paste the entity name in some input field
- Link the entity so I can set standings
- Click on the created link in order to set the standing
- Copy another neut's name into clipboard
- Alt+Tab back to the KOS checker
- Paste the pilot name into the KOS checker
- Check if the pilot is KOS and which entity exactly
- and so it goes for each neutral character in the system...
- ...

The current IGB offers the following:
- Copy local
- Paste into KOS checker without having to Alt+Tab
- Click on each red entity to call the show info window
- Set standings on the fly
- Hunt them down

So to sum it up:
In-Game Browser functionality in game = NRDS PVP FUN.
versus
No In-Game Broswer functionality in game = lots of Alt+Tabbing in order to identify who the enemy is and their numbers. Should there be no enemies the whole thing would have to be repeated for every system you jump into meaning lots of administrative Alt+Tab BULL in NRDS while being Safed-up or Ship Spinning in station instead of the pvp.
NO THANK YOU CCP. SUBSCRIPTIONS CANCELLED.


If you have a clipboard monitor that is loading stuff in an app that is connected with crest this is still doable;

- Misclicks; just recopy all, monitor update (see pirate little helper)
- Crest sets standings (see dev blogs), so, when you copy something, set standing on the fly in app, commit and its in your eve standings too.
- KOS listings can be distributed in the APP, just like on the website.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Daniel Neyiami
Let's annoy'em
#336 - 2016-06-29 22:52:56 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:


If you have a clipboard monitor that is loading stuff in an app that is connected with crest this is still doable;

- Misclicks; just recopy all, monitor update (see pirate little helper)
- Crest sets standings (see dev blogs), so, when you copy something, set standing on the fly in app, commit and its in your eve standings too.
- KOS listings can be distributed in the APP, just like on the website.


So I'm wasting another of my accounts Hours for PLEX.

CCP decided to remove the In-Game Browser for security reasons.

Are those monitors you mentioned free of security risks or would I have to write my own monitor to be somewhat sure of its safety?
If you see my point, why would CCP as a gaming company even require their players to use non-supported 3rd party apps in order to make the most of their game?

You wrote that KOS listings can be distributed. "Can" as there is a possibilty of it but it's not included at this very moment, correct?

But let's say I was going to use a few accounts simultaneously. Would I have to change the used API key in the monitor each time I was using a different account to set my standings? Thus far I did not have to mess with my API key to set my standings for each individual account, as the In-Game Browser was an inherent part of every client...

Also, could you please list those dev blogs that concern setting standings? Perhaps, just perhaps, I'll look into it and write my own monitor in order to be able to play what used to be my favorite game for almost 9 years...
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#337 - 2016-06-30 00:05:15 UTC
Projecting as a reasonable customer now;
I understand why you removed the ingame browser, albeit it leaves me flabberghasted how you failed to implement something that has been long sought after, and long demanded to balance it;

I don't care for an ingame-browser, if I can get a CREST-interface.
I want the inhouse, ingame tool that access the inhouse, ingame database.
For that, I would completely be fine with no web-application going from inside of eve to the outside. I would even sacrifice the aforementioned image-viewer webshell.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#338 - 2016-06-30 03:38:20 UTC
Daniel Neyiami wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:


If you have a clipboard monitor that is loading stuff in an app that is connected with crest this is still doable;

- Misclicks; just recopy all, monitor update (see pirate little helper)
- Crest sets standings (see dev blogs), so, when you copy something, set standing on the fly in app, commit and its in your eve standings too.
- KOS listings can be distributed in the APP, just like on the website.


So I'm wasting another of my accounts Hours for PLEX.

CCP decided to remove the In-Game Browser for security reasons.

Are those monitors you mentioned free of security risks or would I have to write my own monitor to be somewhat sure of its safety?
If you see my point, why would CCP as a gaming company even require their players to use non-supported 3rd party apps in order to make the most of their game?

You wrote that KOS listings can be distributed. "Can" as there is a possibilty of it but it's not included at this very moment, correct?

But let's say I was going to use a few accounts simultaneously. Would I have to change the used API key in the monitor each time I was using a different account to set my standings? Thus far I did not have to mess with my API key to set my standings for each individual account, as the In-Game Browser was an inherent part of every client...

Also, could you please list those dev blogs that concern setting standings? Perhaps, just perhaps, I'll look into it and write my own monitor in order to be able to play what used to be my favorite game for almost 9 years...


* DEV BLOG > https://developers.eveonline.com/blog/article/crest-updates-for-january-2016

* the multiple api thing is something that is a problem, I did not consider unmerged clients. I would prefer to work with the same contacts over all loaded api chars. Seems the most easy is some kind of filter in the clipboard monitoring based on your char in the list you copy or something. But still, I dont think its around.

* (KOS) I was not assuming they were not, I was just pointing out you can switch platform on them.

* I dont get your point about hours for plex.




"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#339 - 2016-06-30 04:59:22 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
* I dont get your point about hours for plex.

Probably mentioning it to say "my account is unsubscribed and I use hours for plex to reactivate only to write on the forum" since it's prohibited to use any eve services, including the forum, without an active subscription.
Incidentally I find it a bit too "convenient for the narrative" for his accounts to be expired around patchday.
Likewise my opinion of being unable to write on the forum with an inactive account is not a good idea either. There should at least be a grace period.
Cismet
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#340 - 2016-07-01 20:03:12 UTC
Drazz Caylen wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
* I dont get your point about hours for plex.

Probably mentioning it to say "my account is unsubscribed and I use hours for plex to reactivate only to write on the forum" since it's prohibited to use any eve services, including the forum, without an active subscription.
Incidentally I find it a bit too "convenient for the narrative" for his accounts to be expired around patchday.
Likewise my opinion of being unable to write on the forum with an inactive account is not a good idea either. There should at least be a grace period.


Not the best way to engage and try and keep your customers really is it. Surely you want them to be discussing the game to entice them back?

Still, I'm disappointed that there has been no further input from developers since FoxFour's departure, the points raised in this thread have been largely ignored and/or passively aggressively attacked by developers, which is sad to see. The reasons for the removal still don't really add up and this hasn't been addressed either.