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Inner Circle, Raish cast suspicion upon Upwell's Serpentis raids

Author
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1 - 2016-06-22 02:12:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Neph
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/upwell-criticized-by-inner-circle-after-serpentis-raids/

I don't know if Upwell was going for subtle, but apparently DED will have nothing of it, or at least, they want the spoils. This is an interesting first move by Raish-jaijii as the Jove representative of Inner Circle. It seems the SOCT will operate much more actively with the events of the cluster than the Jove have in the past.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2016-06-22 05:04:38 UTC
Neph wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/upwell-criticized-by-inner-circle-after-serpentis-raids/

I don't know if Upwell was going for subtle, but this is an interesting first move by Raish-jaijii as the Jove representative of Inner Circle.

Yep right now it seems that CONCORD uses their nearly absolute power to get everything they want
chaosjj
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-06-22 07:55:34 UTC
CONCORD, the small greedy child that throws a tandrum when it does not get what it wants...
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-06-22 11:04:09 UTC
I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect...

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2016-06-22 13:44:31 UTC
I think CONCORD is just jealous that capsuleers are doing their job better than them.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2016-06-22 15:48:30 UTC
Hm.

With all due respect to CONCORD and Mr. Raish, the Upwell Consortium is in no way beholden to surrender materials without compensation to the DED, and its major components are based outside of secure space. Admittedly, many Upwell members are indeed scattered among the empires, but the core leadership is likely inaccessible.

I would advise Mr. Raish to consider the carrot instead of the stick, and attempt a more conciliatory approach.

After all, if engaged properly, Upwell has already done CONCORD's work. Angrily denouncing them for having done this work and demanding the spoils is not a constructive approach to this situation.

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Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2016-06-22 16:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinjin Mokk
Diana Kim wrote:
I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect...



I think I'm quite ***king past the point of subtle disrespect with people like Raish.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#8 - 2016-06-23 01:33:55 UTC
As a supporter of the Society and one who has been acting as a retailer for Astrahus' created by Upwell; I find this announcement unsettling. I wonder if the corruption of CONCORD has rubbed off on Matshi Raish or if I should invest my funds elsewhere.

Hmmm... which is the larger threat?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-06-23 01:58:06 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect...



I think I'm quite ***king past the point of subtle disrespect with people like Raish.

Suitable, not subtle, Mr. Mokk.
She called him 'foreigner', it sort of made me smile awkwardly. It would suit way better gallentean occupants in Black Rise or on Caldari Prime, when we yell at them "Jaijii go home!"

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#10 - 2016-06-23 05:19:07 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect...



I think I'm quite ***king past the point of subtle disrespect with people like Raish.

Suitable, not subtle, Mr. Mokk.
She called him 'foreigner', it sort of made me smile awkwardly. It would suit way better gallentean occupants in Black Rise or on Caldari Prime, when we yell at them "Jaijii go home!"


Hmm, that's interesting. Regional differences, perhaps--where I grew up, Jaijii meant an honorable or well-respected foreigner. Here I was thinking I was giving Raish-jaijii his due respect. Gallentean occupants who deserved the slur we called tyuui.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-06-23 08:02:00 UTC
'Tyuui' more suits pirates and traitors from my point of view.
When I was in the academy we used slur 'kakku' for gallenteans. Though there wasn't a war yet.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#12 - 2016-06-23 19:27:20 UTC
Meteoric rise to power. Economic dominance in a fast growing field. Deployment of military assets against potential non-combatants. Surreptitious seizure of blueprints and construction materials pertaining to superweapons.

I don't see why the DED would have any interest in this matter. Not at all.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2016-06-24 03:21:03 UTC
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
Meteoric rise to power. Economic dominance in a fast growing field. Deployment of military assets against potential non-combatants. Surreptitious seizure of blueprints and construction materials pertaining to superweapons.

I don't see why the DED would have any interest in this matter. Not at all.


On the other hand it could be as simple as pure unadulturated greed.

I mean lets face facts
whose the biggest market bar none for military technology and yes, superweapons - Us
whose got more money and more willingness to spend it than anyone else in the cluster - Us
whose just come off the back of the biggest war in recent history and is in a perfect place to want upgraded military assets - Us.

I cannot blame Upwell for securing assets to break into the biggest most profitable market in the whole of New Eden when its staring them right in the damn face, they'd be fools not to try.

As a Caldari I know this better than anyone, when it comes to Corporations making money is the only important thing and I see no reason why Upwell would be any different.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#14 - 2016-06-24 03:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Neph
Darek Castigatus wrote:
when it comes to Corporations making money is the only important thing


No it isn't.

Competition is the only important thing. Sontoso. War. The angry clash between steel and steel to sharpen them both. They fight, but they respect each other. They spar, but they are brother.

Money is a result of winning the competition. By making money the aim and not the reward, you rob yourself of your profit--not of currency, but of spirit. This is corruption: Upwell seems intent to sell its soul to us, for what? Money alone?

It's not that Upwell isn't "playing by the rules", it's that they seem to want to crush all competition. Of course CONCORD isn't maintaining the balance out of some selfless motivation for Upwell's own good--no, they're looking out for themselves. Can't let anybody get too powerful or the game breaks and they can't play any more. So what? That's the way it should be. Everybody looks out for themselves, yet recognizes when compromises must be made for everybody's benefit. In the long term, everybody wins, money is made, and we all become better.

Upwell should submit, the materials should be distributed among the empires fairly, as DED is supposed to, and if they are as strong a corporation as they seem to be, they will find another product or line of research and succeed there, all the stronger for it. Get-rich-quick-and-eke-out-the-competition schemes don't build strength and resilience.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#15 - 2016-06-24 03:49:22 UTC
That said, it would be fair to give Upwell the go-ahead to bring their products and research to market first, since they had the initiative to obtain it. A slap on the wrist for their dubious methods, of course, but the past is the past.

Eventually, the empires will catch up, but Upwell will get initial market share and a jump on development. Everything will balance itself out from there and competition will make sure it does not grow stagnant.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2016-06-24 03:56:08 UTC
Neph wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:
when it comes to Corporations making money is the only important thing


No it isn't.

Competition is the only important thing. Sontoso. War. The angry clash between steel and steel to sharpen them both. They fight, but they respect each other. They spar, but they are brother.

Money is a result of winning the competition. By making money the aim and not the reward, you rob yourself of your profit--not of currency, but of spirit. This is corruption: Upwell seems intent to sell its soul to us, for what? Money alone?

It's not that Upwell isn't "playing by the rules", it's that they seem to want to crush all competition. Of course CONCORD isn't maintaining the balance out of some selfless motivation for Upwell's own good--no, they're looking out for themselves. Can't let anybody get too powerful or the game breaks and they can't play any more. So what? That's the way it should be. Everybody looks out for themselves, yet recognizes when compromises must be made for everybody's benefit. In the long term, everybody wins, money is made, and we all become better.

Upwell should submit, the materials should be distributed among the empires fairly, as DED is supposed to, and if they are as strong a corporation as they seem to be, they will find another product or line of research and succeed there, all the stronger for it. Get-rich-quick-and-eke-out-the-competition schemes don't build strength and resilience.


Dont be daft, why should Upwell kneecap themselves just to satisfy some nebulous principle? If the others want the tech that badly then work out a licensing agreement for it and you know, offer what they think its going to be worth to them. Upwell made the effort and took the risks so they should get to have the rewards and if other people want a piece of the pie when they did nothing to earn it then they can pay for a seat at the table.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#17 - 2016-06-24 04:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Neph
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Dont be daft, why should Upwell kneecap themselves just to satisfy some nebulous principle? If the others want the tech that badly then work out a licensing agreement for it and you know, offer what they think its going to be worth to them. Upwell made the effort and took the risks so they should get to have the rewards and if other people want a piece of the pie when they did nothing to earn it then they can pay for a seat at the table.


Please don't misunderstand me. Upwell won't kneecap themselves. The tech is almost certainly destabilizing. It's in the empires and CONCORD's best interest to level the playing field as much as possible. We all know Upwell has no need whatsoever to license their stolen IP; they are more than fully capable of exploiting it and bringing it to market alone. Monopolies are no good for anybody, not even the monopoly.

Of course, it's not like Upwell's supposed to realize this and be all "Our bad, here's this free stuff". CONCORD was unilaterally created to take care of these situations, and they leverage their considerable power well here. If Upwell isn't controlled, even if they have some amazing guiding principle to keep them from doing so, will doubtlessly be capable of building an extremely high-tech supercapital/citadel force able to challenge the Big Four, and probably with hordes of loyal capsuleers at their backs. CONCORD knows this. The empires know this. If Upwell doesn't comply, this will inevitably be nipped in the bud with the light of four different races of doomsdays. It's in their best interest to play along here, and I'm sure they know it. Don't be fooled! This is self-interest and "unfairness" on everybody's part, but it's for the good of the whole.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2016-06-26 05:48:46 UTC
And yet its not for the good of the whole is it, its the empires wanting to retain an advantage over everyone else and CONCORD is nothing more than their puppet. How many billions of people on thousands of planets throughout the cluster live their entire lives never seeing any of the safety the empires claim to provide yet constantly being squeezed by them for everything they can produce. They expect us to fight the Sansha incursions, us to fight drifters, us to fight in their stupid little proxy war and they never do anything to deserve that kind of service from us.

They certainly don't deserve it from Upwell either.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-06-26 07:36:52 UTC
I am surprised to see so many supporting a private corporate conglomerate withholding technology stolen from pirates against the people who protect the core of new eden from threat.

The devastation following the Revenants Sansha deployed should be warning enough what may happen when the nation's of high sec lose the arms race. I have seen the Vendetta in trials myself; CONCORD, or perhaps just Matshi, are wise to move to combat it and what it represents. UC of course, cares more about profit than the security of new eden. The profit in selling their version of security.

I expect little more than a token gesture from them. And from CONCORD, even less.
The inner circle is weak.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2016-06-26 07:43:14 UTC
Quote:
“When we reveal these designs to the cluster it will force them to listen. They’ll have no choice. It’s only then that the Federation will realize that their overconfidence and carelessness with the Molyneux was the catalyst that created the monster they now have to face.

As for Arteu, rejoining the fray was the biggest mistake of his life, and I’ll be sure the old fraud knows it by the time I’m done with him and his new friends.”

Salvador Sarpati – Low Orbit Capital Shipyard, Serpentis Prime – 118/06/01

Upwell are doing what is best for everyone by withholding what they have found I am sure. You are all right in thinking it is simple greed that motivates CONCORD.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

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