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[118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal

First post First post First post
Author
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#81 - 2016-06-23 17:21:52 UTC
Blitz Hacker wrote:
I think it's semi tragic it's being removed tbh. Where as 10k skill points is 5 hours train time give or take, with a day 1 newbro pilot 5 hours is an assload of sp for them.. specifically to get them to train those support skills no newbro wants to grind out to atleast level 3 before flying around.

*shrug*

More pissed about the IGB going, or atleast not some ability to add another browser in its place, so much functionality is gone with no IGB.. Dotlan and/or Tripwire becomes a minor nightmare, and being solo monitor swapping out in hostile space is a big deal.

I won't cry over the 10k skill points but if you guys are looking for some metric to change you might wanna mention it. Otherwise it's a small bonus that was great to knock some time off some of the more lengthy skills later in game (jdc 5)




For new players its probably more around 6-8 hours (so a HUGE boost). Those that burn their remaps straight away and plan directly for those remaps might only save 4-5 hours.. But the biggest joy this would have had for "new" players is that if they save it up then they can "train" for the skills that they are mapped too, and then use these free ones on the skills that they are not mapped too. Early days you need to remap a lot so I would say the first two months or so players would benefit from this the most.

Perhaps "training" agents should give out sp/reward missions per day for new players.. Perhaps it could go down based on the days played.. 25k on day 1, 15k on day 30, 5k on day 60, nothing on day 90..

Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2016-06-23 17:24:26 UTC
Planet Busta wrote:
Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Active phase of Goon War is over, "content" conflicts are not that exciting. Citadel land rush is falling off too. And it's summer - time to see some sun.
The Farf
Check Your Caldari Privilege
#83 - 2016-06-23 17:24:40 UTC
I don't know if you guys just didn't notice or what, but they fully intend on keeping this mechanic around. The second post from rise in this thread ends with
Quote:
we will certainly have similar features coming, we just want them to be more integrated with with the rest of our work and be a little more robust overall.

So again, it's coming back, just in a different way. All the people hooting and hollering about "being right that it wouldn't do anything" aren't exactly on the debate-winning side of the fence.

My guess is that they will make you work a little harder, and then maybe up the SP reward in correlation.
Maybe something like, your first mission of the day from one of the main factions will give you the SP. At first this seems just as dull and meaningless, but maybe it will be just enough motivation to fit up a ship for missions. I mean, sometimes I'm just too lazy to even look up a fit online, let alone gather the modules. But now there's an SP reward behind that first mission. I've completed it, but now I also have a ship completely ready to do this type and level of mission, the one I chose to do in the first place... maybe a few more wouldn't hurt for some extra money?

And with this method, you could even take it a step further, to varying degrees of player-base reaction, of course (I know I'll get hated on for even mentioning this, but I should remind you before you continue reading that skill injectors haven't gone anywhere, and already complete this goal in another way, so it's not like what I'm about to suggest is a new concept, just implemented in a different way). But, here we go: You could also make it so that only mission givers in hisec actually reward the boost. This does several things to the game, obviously, which I'll highlight the ones that come to mind easily next.

First is that this gives noobs (yet another) 1-up against vets. As most vets probably live in null, with a lot not having the security to come back to hisec, let alone the standing with agents to get missions, they're out of luck without a grind first. This sounds kind of terrible at first, but CCP already obviously likes this mechanic because as I said before, it is implemented even more helplessly via skill injectors. At least with this idea, they can choose to grind to come back and get their SP if they so desire. But I don't see that happening. Instead, noobs that don't know any better will feel like maybe they do have a chance to "catch up" to the veterans around the game, since even today one of the most prevalent questions from noobs is still "is it too late to play EVE"? Of course we know the answer is no, and we SAY no to them, but our answers fall on deaf ears. Obviously, an in game mechanic like I just outlined - that works in their favor is not just a word, it is a proof. They might finally get that feeling they have a chance, and maybe this is what they need. The feeling that they have something... anything... as a leg up. Something they can actually work towards, which even gets them to fit a ship and do a mission.

And this is a great opportunity to squash a certain other crowd of people that I know will reply with such: "Well, maybe now that we have skill injectors, we don't need yet another mechanic that helps noobs?" Well firstly and arguably, this daily was already doing exactly that since 10,000sp matters proportionally more when you have less sp to start with. But it does not end there. I personally think that skill injectors are the failure here, not the daily. With their massive cost, skill injectors are a fine wine that 90% of noobs, if not more, will never taste. And it's ironically hilarious, when you consider how they work for people with differing amounts of sp. But let's continue...

Second is that for people that don't have friends yet, it keeps them engaged with doing at least something in the game, that's more than killing a rat. It might poke their mind with intrigue at just the right amount to get the gears really spinning. It may give them them both the motivation and feeling that they can do this, and they might choose a career and start planning how they would do it. Figure out how much time they need, money, and feel like they actually have a chance. But, one more thing I can see people saying at this point, is that it might lock them in to highsec. Maybe they will feel like leaving that bonus behind just isn't worth it. I can't say I disagree, but I also can't agree.

First of all, if the daily is working (this time) and people actually play a bit more, they will have more time to meet someone they think they can trust. I can't remember how I met the first person I thought I could trust in EVE back in 2008, and that would be nice right now, oh well. But even if you're only new-ish, I'd still have to argue in favor of the daily. A lot of the people that know a bit more about the game, but still pretty new, might feel that skill points are the true limiter of what you can do (and they're right). This would help get them out hisec actually, not keep them in it. And what I think the best part is, is that this doesnt at all affect the time-proven advice to give any noob that isn't sure what they should do in game: join a corp! Take your newfound SP and do something for a corp, probably in low or null, and stop waiting for content to come to you. Because they even have a ship already fitted from missions, they can now get right to business learning about how much they hate fleet doctrines.

In conclusion, I think that on the surface this seems like just another gimmic that we would see from any other game. But when you think about it and dig deeper, because of EVE's nature, there are a ton of implications for when, where, and how you implement something. But this should not be new news, and that is exactly why I am confused about your decision making, CCP.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#84 - 2016-06-23 17:28:20 UTC
Planet Busta wrote:
Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D



They already are, and newbean signups have been starting to taper-off as well.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Bear Templar
Union Provisional Succession Enforcement Tactical
Imperial Corporate Union
#85 - 2016-06-23 17:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bear Templar
Minty Aroma wrote:
Doh, recently remapped a character thinking I could get the off remap stuff with the SP from the daily. Guess not now.

I guess the total number of logons was higher but the concurrent people online wasn't, probably due to people logging in an alt then off again. Another thing to consider is that Warhammer Total War was released on the same day, therefore you'll have lost 90% of Test!



This and Overwatch!

For me, I was logging in more - but once the rats were killed and nothing was actually going on in-game i just logged off. Whilst i did enjoy getting 10k free SP per day, i think the actual issue for me not staying logged in was content.

I'm the more industrial type of player, with an interest in WH's and exploration too (yes, i've dabbled in pvp, FW and incursions) but for me, the areas i get most of my interest out of are just....*shrugs*... they're not keeping me logged in like they used to.

If a fish weighs 1 Kilogram plus half its own weight, how much does it weigh? (It's not 1.5kg btw)

IcedGuardian
Nova Marines.
#86 - 2016-06-23 17:30:55 UTC
Its like giving a fat kid a cake, and then taking it away soon after the first bite
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#87 - 2016-06-23 17:34:31 UTC
IcedGuardian wrote:
Its like giving a fat kid a cake, and then taking it away soon after the first bite



The first taste is always free...



There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers
Initiative Mercenaries
#88 - 2016-06-23 17:48:20 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Good day!

I'm here to let you know that on Tuesday, in the 118.6 release, we are planning to remove the recurring opportunity "Thrill of the Hunt".

Our hope in releasing this feature was to gain insight on how direct, daily rewards might effect and improve engagement in EVE. I can't go into too much detail about results but I thought you guys might like to know a bit about what did happen after it launched. The biggest conclusions we can draw so far (though we are still gathering and analyzing data) are that recurring opportunities did have a significant effect on player activity in game. We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind. This is really important for us and by collecting solid data with a fast and simple feature like recurring opportunities we will be able to make better decisions as we work on larger things in the future, such as the Shadow of the Serpent event, which begins on Tuesday in the 118.6 release.

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to talk with us about the feature, both online and in person at Fanfest. While there were certainly concerns from you guys, the conversation stayed mature and productive which is fantastic for us and we really appreciate it.

Until next time,
Fly safe,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters


Perhaps you could reinstate Recurring Opportunities in the future, only make the conditions necessary to gain the rewards more difficult and change up what kind of rewards you get depending on the individual opportunity.

For example, you might increase the number of SP you gain from the previous opportunity, while at the same time increasing the number of NPC pirates you need to kill or the conditions for gaining those SP - i.e. tiered number of skillpoints gained depending on the level of anomaly a player completes (10,000 SP for Level 1 anomalies - 25,000 to 50,000 for Havens and Sanctum-level anomalies per week.) That way, you could still maintain the same level of SP gain from the original plan, but with bigger initial pay-out.

You could be rewarded with a certain amount of ore at your home station from ORE for mining a set amount of asteroids, ice or gas sites per day or week, and you could even gain Loyalty Points for completing Data and Relic Sites from CONCORD for services rendered in hacking pirate sites.

For bigger opportunities, make them timed, like you do with the Epic Arcs, or even tie them in with the Epic Arcs. You could even introduce opportunity rewards for PvP combat in the form of skillpoints to encourage PVP content.

Those are my suggestions at the moment.


Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#89 - 2016-06-23 17:49:43 UTC
I like the removal! To me it was an attempt to attract players by giving away cheap cookies which doesn't belong into EVE at all. Improving and creating exciting game content is the way to go to make players login and I hope all future efforts will focus only on that.

I also doubt that this was a real achievement: "We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day..." That bump above the average level of players who are "killing something" each day anyway doing PVE or PVP were likely the ones who were just flying quickly to a belt to get their daily cookie. Of course, everyone enjoyed the cookie but I doubt they enjoyed the way to get it.

And why should everyone be driven into the habit of "killing something"? There are a lot of players who like traveling, exploring around, mining, manufacturing, research, invention, trading, logistics, etc. - and if not always than at least in longer phases. Yes, the game is actually that good to found and enjoy a whole long-term career on not killing something. Don't touch that!
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#90 - 2016-06-23 17:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
So, the plan of "make a daily SP system to entice players to play the game, then drive Extractor sales." kinda backfired when people didn't really care...

...

Xolve
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2016-06-23 17:54:43 UTC
Kolmogorow wrote:
I like the removal! To me it was an attempt to attract players by giving away cheap cookies which doesn't belong into EVE at all. Improving and creating exciting game content is the way to go to make players login and I hope all future efforts will focus only on that.

I also doubt that this was a real achievement: "We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day..." That bump above the average level of players who are "killing something" each day anyway doing PVE or PVP were likely the ones who were just flying quickly to a belt to get their daily cookie. Of course, everyone enjoyed the cookie but I doubt they enjoyed the way to get it.

And why should everyone be driven into the habit of "killing something"? There are a lot of players who like traveling, exploring around, mining, manufacturing, research, invention, trading, logistics, etc. - and if not always than at least in longer phases. Yes, the game is actually that good to found and enjoy a whole long-term career on not killing something. Don't touch that!




TFW highsec guy in a tax evasion corp talks about 'free cookies' being a bad thing.
Dest Steel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2016-06-23 18:14:30 UTC
****,
good things will be removed.
Not good!
I will miss it!
Fly safe
Dest Steel
Jevatoxa
Amandla Legion
Electus Matari
#93 - 2016-06-23 18:15:53 UTC
Manic Velocity wrote:


The data clearly shows that the SP reward should be bumped to 50,000.


QFT Twisted
Jevatoxa
Amandla Legion
Electus Matari
#94 - 2016-06-23 18:17:20 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Post hoc ergo propter hoc..


+1 awarded due to proper use of Latin
Polly Fera
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2016-06-23 18:20:40 UTC
No!
Thrill of the Hunt - Very Good
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#96 - 2016-06-23 18:22:27 UTC
I'm over here unsure if I should be smug because it didn't work or eating my hat because it's being removed for not working

Grighory Kotovski wrote:
Personally I kind of thought this Daily Objective thing was mostly geared to benefit NEW BROS.

nope
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2016-06-23 18:24:32 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Our hope in releasing this feature was to gain insight on how direct, daily rewards might effect and improve engagement in EVE


Really?

Cause when you announced it, you didn't say that.

CCP Rise wrote:
As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2016-06-23 18:24:49 UTC
Hopefully the replacement for this feature comes quickly. For a new player or a returning player, any help with skill points is always helpful.

Zelot Blueice
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2016-06-23 18:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zelot Blueice
"CCP: This was a bad Idea, lets spin this so it looks like an experiment"

"Every sensical veteran player: OH NO **** THIS WAS A STUPID IDEA!"


CCPlease sotp trying to be spaceWoW
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#100 - 2016-06-23 18:30:38 UTC
Sykes Makar wrote:
They should've expanded on that and turned it into some sort of 'weekly opportunities', where you need to finish a certain amount of tasks until you get 'cashed out'.
Lorewise, it could be funded by Concord/Empire Factions/Dubious Contacts to keep the order/mayhem in the system going.

That could be partly based on the security level of the system, with 0.5 to 1.0 is mostly ratting, -0.1 to -1.0 is more PvP focused while 0.4 to 0.0 is a mix of both, along with Faction Warfare squeezed inbetween. Commerce and Industry tasks should be available regardless of security level.


Maybe the upcoming Serpentis event is a test for this type of incentive. /shrug

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."