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Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

First post First post First post
Author
SilentG
Game of Drones
The Initiative.
#161 - 2016-06-20 23:02:22 UTC
hmmmm

ok im one of the vets in this game, and i have been plaing since 2004.

The IGB is one of the things that have been helping me since my start, and i really feel sorry for its burial.

Im playing multiple tons on a laptop, ithout a boot, and this game is starting to bug me off.

Whenever you change the luncher we need to add all our overwiev and stuff once more, you never seem to take care of your old players that hve used 10 years or more on getting a decent setu.


IGB: why remove it?

Seems to me that EVE is going the way that all MMO are going. You need a serious setup to do play the game, probably a nice i7 core with 2 screens or more.

I have multiple chars from 2004, and have been doing great on a laptop, woth i3 and 4gb of normal shared ram, and i guess that have been the base of this game for 12 years. No million setup computers, and you coudnt buy your way to rich and famous.

We got skillinjectors, did we complain? yes some

We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also...

Reach out to Google, opera, microsoft or any other, and let them do the IGB, you can maybe get payed for it as well insted of let the specs to play go skyhigh..

BAH
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#162 - 2016-06-20 23:05:50 UTC
Made NChina wrote:
Useless work because of an useless change..... That is what third party dev are thinking....
three months to do the work ... Three Months for remaking what is already working at the moment !!

Enablers are the people who make the logistics for these large-scale things actually work. They are people who run mad spreadsheets to organize production lines for war efforts, they are people who manage roles and membership of big corporations and alliances, they build tools to do different tasks. And we kind of have a history of treating these people likeā€¦****. We put these people through a lot of painful, unnecessary work. (c) CCP Seagull

But please, dont come down too hard on SoxFour, he's a good one.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#163 - 2016-06-20 23:12:02 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Not quite sure what all the outrage is about.


People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?


fixed it for you: People who should have stopped using the IGB years ago, upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#164 - 2016-06-20 23:14:56 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:

2nd monitor ;)

Sure. You buying me one and a larger space for my setup so I can place one? It's funny how cold and cavalier some people can be about the situation of others.

But you keep right on cheering for another removal of in-game functionality and replacement with a half-assed hack.
Turtle Udan
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#165 - 2016-06-20 23:15:46 UTC
SilentG wrote:
hmmmm

We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also...

Reach out to Google, opera, microsoft or any other, and let them do the IGB, you can maybe get payed for it as well insted of let the specs to play go skyhigh..



1) CREST allows you to access your tools from ANOTHER device, you don't have to use your laptop for 5 toons and a browser, you can use the browser on any other device.

2) This is not how this works. Microsoft, Google, and Opera don't care about the IGB, and they CERTAINLY won't pay CCP for the massive effort required to integrate their browsers into the game.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#166 - 2016-06-20 23:16:07 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:
Lt Shard wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Not quite sure what all the outrage is about.


People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?


fixed it for you: People who should have stopped using the IGB years ago, upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?


Just because you don't use doesn't mean others don't.
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#167 - 2016-06-20 23:16:27 UTC
what was that middle part?
Marsha Mallow
#168 - 2016-06-20 23:22:14 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Not quite sure what all the outrage is about.


People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?

Don't rely on tools attached to a feature slated for removal? You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware this was on the cards. Sometimes I wonder how many Eve players legit do live under rocks. Arguments for and against have already been made. Explanations have been provided as to why continued support isn't feasible. You carrying on isn't going to change it, and frankly the bawwing is pathetic.

The IGB didn't even exist when I started. Luckily I have a brain larger than a pea so I can probably figure out how to play without it. You're clearly screwed and should probably hand over the stuff now and flounce off and take that self-righteous indignation with you.

ps. You're not good at this game Straight

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#169 - 2016-06-20 23:31:50 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Lt Shard wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Not quite sure what all the outrage is about.


People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?

Don't rely on tools attached to a feature slated for removal? You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware this was on the cards. Sometimes I wonder how many Eve players legit do live under rocks. Arguments for and against have already been made. Explanations have been provided as to why continued support isn't feasible. You carrying on isn't going to change it, and frankly the bawwing is pathetic.

The IGB didn't even exist when I started. Luckily I have a brain larger than a pea so I can probably figure out how to play without it. You're clearly screwed and should probably hand over the stuff now and flounce off and take that self-righteous indignation with you.

ps. You're not good at this game Straight



You're an idiot and a ccp shill. I am advocating for quality of life for my corp mates and the rest of w-space. You keep using "slated for removal". Lots of things had been on the chopping block and pushback from players have stopped them, take the bookmark warping for example.

Simply put, MY PEOPLE use it, and dont want to see it go. Its not a ******* crime to want a feature kept instead one after the other being shaved off like the camera or how much ccp is pushing the godawful new probing system. I care about this game because I ******* LOVE it. But when I see **** getting removed like this I die a bit on the inside. Because of this I am so passionate about voicing my opinion on it. CCP have been making the wrong moves in the last few months and its tiring.

ps gag is ironic and post with your main
Lucy Andedare
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#170 - 2016-06-20 23:35:06 UTC
This is actually very upsetting. I use the IGB constantly. Hopefully this doesn't ruin the experience of EVE for me.
Bawb Zennshinagas
Zennshinagas LLC.
#171 - 2016-06-20 23:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bawb Zennshinagas
RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently.

I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder.

CCP FoxFour wrote:

Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?



Because There aren't any for Mac users?
Marsha Mallow
#172 - 2016-06-20 23:48:58 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
You're an idiot and a ccp shill. I am advocating for quality of life for my corp mates and the rest of w-space. You keep using "slated for removal". Lots of things had been on the chopping block and pushback from players have stopped them, take the bookmark warping for example.

Simply put, MY PEOPLE use it, and dont want to see it go. Its not a ******* crime to want a feature kept instead one after the other being shaved off like the camera or how much ccp is pushing the godawful new probing system. I care about this game because I ******* LOVE it. But when I see **** getting removed like this I die a bit on the inside. Because of this I am so passionate about voicing my opinion on it. CCP have been making the wrong moves in the last few months and its tiring.

ps gag is ironic and post with your main

The last WH mapper tool I used was already in re-development via CREST a year ago due to the slated ingame browser removal. I'm not unaware of your complaint, or how reliant some players are on niche tools. That said, there are increasing numbers of CREST based tools. This isn't feedback btw, or remotely constructive. If they leave a broken IGB in place to appease people with bespoke tools it puts all potential users at risk. It's possible that a compromise could be reached, or certain functionality could be integrated into the client. But whipping out the 'CCP doesn't love us, the sky is falling, we're doomed' line of argument demolishes any credibility here, so try again.

This is my main btw. If I am a CCP shill, they better start paying me. But tbh, if I have an issue with a change I don't hesitate to report it, just don't see any point gibbering like a 5 year old. You carry on though, whatever works for you.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#173 - 2016-06-20 23:51:05 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
. But whipping out the 'CCP doesn't love us, the sky is falling, we're doomed' line of argument demolishes any credibility here, so try again.


i love strawmanning!
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
#174 - 2016-06-20 23:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldranna
Turtle Udan wrote:
SilentG wrote:
hmmmm

We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also...



1) CREST allows you to access your tools from ANOTHER device, you don't have to use your laptop for 5 toons and a browser, you can use the browser on any other device.



Let me give you all an example when the In-Game Browser has a great impact on EVE. If you fly under NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) rule and a SPECTRE fleet comes in you want to be able to identify the red pilots as quickly as possible to avoid shooting those who are not known as hostile. Currenty the IGB allows setting standings quickly by clicking on a name of the hostile party which opens an in-game window from which the standing can be set quickly. I do not see how it could be done from another device; not to mention that this functionality does not work with the Out Of Game Browser.
Unfortunately for NRDS it is just another example of user generated content which as far as I can tell is not part of in-game mechanics. The in-game mechanics does not really support NRDS in itself, so removal of IGB and the extended functionality it provides might have a negative impact on this play style. I really hope at this point that you are not going to draw parallels that NRDS is a "substantial margin" of EVE as most of it is NBSI (Not Blue Shoot It) anyway, just as it was said in the DEV blog that most players do not use the IGB.

I also cannot understand, why do you even expect the player to buy another device of any sort to play the game?
The game gives you the most entertaining experience when it has all the features included in it. Many functions that the IGB has to offer are unfortunately not included in the game itself. However, the IGB allows the player to reach outside sources which does not force them to minimize the game and as such makes it a great UI extension.
Jiradus Tazinas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2016-06-20 23:57:00 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?


Because they're not supported on the Mac.

"Use a Steam Product that puts up an overlay over the Windows Browser, using DirectX 11"

If you're going to cut the cord, then you need to have solid support for users who are not 'Windows Centric'


  • WINE doesn't function well in a windowed mode, and the framerate performance starts to crawl and cause all sorts of twitchy issues.

  • I have yet to get anything to function from an Overlay perspective in Wine.

  • Needing to bounce in and out of Eve to look stuff up makes for a poor user experience. (Especially on the Mac, using the full-screen WINE client.)

  • Mac Support - Browser centric models don't discriminate against users of alternate operating systems.

  • Checking information regarding missions/reference material while keeping focus on the game is a crucial part of the In Game Experience.

  • Forcing people to run either in a Windowed Mode or have multiple monitors is not player friendly

  • Loosing the IGB is CERTAINLY not new-user friendly. (What are your IGB stats for new user accounts and trial accounts that aren't associated with either the same credit card, or email address?) The lack of information about the game available IN GAME is painful from a learning perspective. The New User Experience is painful at best, and being able to pull up references that allowed me to find my own answers was great. While staying in game.

  • Poor user experience may not kill it for everyone, but poor New User Experience and a lack of proper in-game resources will kill it for lots of folks. (Especially for those who don't run windows.)

Nicholas Vierra
Halasenzar Corporation
United Federation of Conifers
#176 - 2016-06-20 23:57:57 UTC
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:
RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently.

I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder.

CCP FoxFour wrote:

Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?



Because There aren't any for Mac users?



The Ingame browser will still be around until october, Links just wont default to it. By the time October rolls around, You will probably already be using your iOS / Android device as your browser / EVE Multitool for ingame and out of game stuff, or of course you will also be able to use Safari, FireFox, Edge or Chrome to access the same tools, along with your legacy tools.

To me Crest looks to be capable of delivering a lot, loosing the ingame browser is going to be an adjustment, but its for the best. Let it go, and hell, while you are at it #LetLetitGoGo!

Come and join us in Deninard!

Bawb Zennshinagas
Zennshinagas LLC.
#177 - 2016-06-21 00:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bawb Zennshinagas
Nicholas Vierra wrote:
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:
RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently.

I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder.

CCP FoxFour wrote:

Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?



Because There aren't any for Mac users?



The Ingame browser will still be around until october, Links just wont default to it. By the time October rolls around, You will probably already be using your iOS / Android device as your browser / EVE Multitool for ingame and out of game stuff, or of course you will also be able to use Safari, FireFox, Edge or Chrome to access the same tools, along with your legacy tools.
!


I don't have an iPad and no way in hell I'm relying on my iPhone for regular information for Eve. I don't see how the october time frame has any relevance to the fact that there is absolutely no overlay options for Mac users, are you just arguing we must be at a disadvantage compared to windows players? The IGB/Overlay aspect is hugely valuable, and honestly pretty critical to a lot of activity in the game.

CCP regularly just neglects the fact that Mac players exist, and it shows. if we don't raise a stink about being ignored, we WILL be ignored.

What are you proposing I do about the windowed/fullscreen performance and bugs? Because there's nothing I like more than toggling between fullscreen and windowed mode every time I need to swap out to a browser for basic game information.
Nicholas Vierra
Halasenzar Corporation
United Federation of Conifers
#178 - 2016-06-21 00:04:52 UTC
Jiradus Tazinas wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?


Because they're not supported on the Mac.

"Use a Steam Product that puts up an overlay over the Windows Browser, using DirectX 11"

If you're going to cut the cord, then you need to have solid support for users who are not 'Windows Centric'


  • WINE doesn't function well in a windowed mode, and the framerate performance starts to crawl and cause all sorts of twitchy issues.

  • I have yet to get anything to function from an Overlay perspective in Wine.

  • Needing to bounce in and out of Eve to look stuff up makes for a poor user experience. (Especially on the Mac, using the full-screen WINE client.)

  • Mac Support - Browser centric models don't discriminate against users of alternate operating systems.

  • Checking information regarding missions/reference material while keeping focus on the game is a crucial part of the In Game Experience.

  • Forcing people to run either in a Windowed Mode or have multiple monitors is not player friendly

  • Loosing the IGB is CERTAINLY not new-user friendly. (What are your IGB stats for new user accounts and trial accounts that aren't associated with either the same credit card, or email address?) The lack of information about the game available IN GAME is painful from a learning perspective. The New User Experience is painful at best, and being able to pull up references that allowed me to find my own answers was great. While staying in game.

  • Poor user experience may not kill it for everyone, but poor New User Experience and a lack of proper in-game resources will kill it for lots of folks. (Especially for those who don't run windows.)



As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change.

Come and join us in Deninard!

Bawb Zennshinagas
Zennshinagas LLC.
#179 - 2016-06-21 00:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Bawb Zennshinagas
Nicholas Vierra wrote:

As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change.


Some of us use it quite exhaustively, because we have to.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#180 - 2016-06-21 00:09:14 UTC
Nicholas Vierra wrote:


As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change.

Just because you dont use it daily doesn't mean others dont