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[Focus Group] Contracts in Citadels

First post First post
CCP Fozzie
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-06-20 15:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey folks.
We're looking to form a very small and very quick focus group concerning contract mechanics and citadels.
Main topics of discussion will be design options surrounding some open questions with contracts in citadels (for instance, how we can best handle situations where the citadel explodes or changes access while a courier contract is in progress).

We'd be looking for a group of ~6-7 players who are willing to start discussions this week and we'd expect this focus group to last a month at most. Ideally we'd like to have a few representatives of major courier contract services, and some people heavily involved in contract-related logistics for their organizations.

We've poked the CSM for their help in finding people for the focus group, and I'd also like to open this thread up to anyone who thinks they would make a strong contribution. We're looking for people who can demonstrate a strong history of calm and constructive discussion of EVE features, and who have something valuable to contribute to the discussion.

So if you think you would make a good addition to this focus group go ahead and post in this thread with your explanation of your background and why we should pick you. If you think you represent experience in a specific niche make sure to say so. We'll be consulting with the CSM for their advice in helping narrow the group down.

And to address the inevitable angry posts that will appear below: yes we are planning on restarting the Tactical Destroyer focus group in the future, but not until we have proper time in our schedule to make the necessary changes. I'm also frustrated by how long we've had to delay T3D changes, but such is the unfortunate reality of game development.


Ok we'll start with the following folks:

Kenneth Feld
Alyla By
Cassie Helio
Dune Barphsaq
Lyn Fel
Elizabeth Norn
Cpt Patrick Archer

If the people above can send eve-mails to me and let me know what email address you'd like me to use for the slack invites I'll start pulling you in.

Everyone can observe all the discussion logs at

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

The Collective
Brothers of Tangra
#2 - 2016-06-20 15:43:48 UTC


Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2016-06-20 15:45:19 UTC
Logistics director for PL

Followed Citadels from the start in Slack

Proven to get on sisi and test and provide valuable feedback and bug testing
Alyla By
#4 - 2016-06-20 16:00:54 UTC
I'm interested to join this focus group. I am the logistic director of a WH corporation living in a C4 and handle the whole chain, from hauling to asset trading and distribution. WE have our own Fortizar citadel

This would be my first focus group, however I consider myself available enough to discuss, give ideas, think out of the box and test new things. I also have a cool head :)
Cassie Helio
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
#5 - 2016-06-20 16:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassie Helio
I am the CEO of Push Industries [PushX], long established hauling corp, having hauled over 100k contracts for New Eden.

Contracts in citadels are something we are very interested in and have already been discussing how we can integrate the new mechanics into our services.

I have not posted on the forums a lot but when I do I always stay focused and never troll or flame.

I would like to be considered for the focus group as my corp and I work with courier contracts everyday delivering to all different kinds of space. Citadels add a new complexity to that and will directly impact my corporations activities on a daily basis.

Thank you
MrWalter White
Breaking Bad Corp
#6 - 2016-06-20 16:13:09 UTC
Quick question - since keepstar allow for dockable supercapitals will contract be able to handle supers sales or you guys giving that area for 3rd party escrow exchange ?

Alexander McKeon
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-06-20 16:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander McKeon
Hello, I'd like to get in on the show as well; I serve as the frequent logistics pilot for my alliance, and have a particularly keen interest in how precisely courier contracts to and from citadels will affect that ability to serve player-owned sov installations. Of especial concern are docking rights and how that will interact with the tendency of most freight companies and large nullsec groups to use neutral JF alts in order to avoid wardecs.

I've got a few other ideas relating to the movement of capitals that I'd like to contribute, particularly how it's not currently possible to hire out the movement of capital ships as you can with freighter-sized loads. I've got a history of carefully considered analytical posts on these forums and feel that I can contribute usefully to the discussions, hopefully I'll have the chance to do so.
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2016-06-20 16:57:32 UTC
I'd like to apply. I'm a director in Goonswarm Federation, as part of the finance team, responsible for (among other things) moving war materiel to and from places. I'm also one of the most knowledgeable people in my alliance where citadels are concerned (probably second only to xttz.)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-06-20 17:11:28 UTC
Not really a citadel user, so I won't be any help, but can you please give us info about how you plan on implementing taxes and fees for contracts in stations/outposts? Especially concerned about: private, corp, public and time variables?
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Order of Allied Knights
#10 - 2016-06-20 17:33:27 UTC
Just an idea - don't wanna be part of the group. But make it so couriers don't need to dock to deliver. Just be tethered. Would just be like in real life when a ship comes to a location with no dock. They can still deliver goods via smaller ships from the locals.

Lore wise, this theather transfer would just be the NPC work crews moving the goods.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2016-06-20 17:38:08 UTC
You need to contact the folks in Black/Blue/Red Frog. I think they are one of the most knowledgable groups in regards to courier contracts.

Dune Barphsaq
EVE University
Ivy League
#12 - 2016-06-20 18:26:58 UTC
I'd like to throw my hat in to the ring as well, I am the personnel manager for E-uni, and have been managing one of E-Uni's jump freighter programs for nearly a year, I have also been a JF pilot for Black Frog Logistics for more than a year. I have completed more than 250 courier contracts for BFL, and way more for Red Frog before that.

I have spent quite a bit of time on sisi playing with citadels, but haven't had much experience with them since they actually went live on TQ. I am very excited to see contracts make it to citadels, contracting is one of the best features in the game. (Of course I would think that, my lively-hood depends on them)

Assistant Personnel Manager | Eve University

EVE University
Ivy League
#13 - 2016-06-20 18:42:09 UTC
Tossing my name in the pool as well.

I've been doing logistics for multiple campuses of EVE University for several years. I handle high sec to high sec, as well as to/from low sec and null sec. I've done both direct contract and re-contracting to alts for hauling. I've dealt with thousands of courier contracts personally.

Although some of our members use the paid services, our free courier contract services are still used on a daily basis. As Citadels are expanded, their combination is inevitable.

I believe I would be a good candidate for this focus group due to my long time experience with courier contracts and our corporations unique place in EVE. I've done testing in SiSi on other topics and will be able to as well for this if needed.

Director of Special Projects HSC | LSC | CCI | Incursions

Pyramid Celestial
#14 - 2016-06-20 20:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: metalravenous
I would also like to get in on this. I have lots of in-game contract/logistics experience. Thanks.
Lyn Fel
Black Frog Logistics
#15 - 2016-06-20 21:17:20 UTC
I am the current CEO of Black Frog Logistics, a Director in Red Frog Freight and Former CEO Blue Frog Freight. Obviously the mechanics of Citadel courier contracting is something we are very concerned about. I would be happy to be part of any discussions involving them.
Which Frog
Red Frog Freight
#16 - 2016-06-20 21:22:19 UTC
While, as director of Red Frog Freight, I might make a good addition myself, maybe you want to limit participation to one member per alliance. In that case, I support the application of Lyn Fel, who is as knowledgeable at current contract mechanics and their pitfalls as any other member of Red-Frog.
Red Frog Freight
#17 - 2016-06-20 21:43:16 UTC
I am up for representing the smaller side of hauling corps within New Eden on this topic. I am the current CEO of New Evolution Express and Ex CEO of PushX. I was also at the roundtable for contracts at EVE Fanfest this year which did bring up some things which may well be beneficial to citadel contracting as well.
Red Frog Freight
#18 - 2016-06-20 22:25:07 UTC
Director for New Evolution Express - Reporting in.
Been doing all sorts of hauling jobs for a long while. (Including nulsec/thera and WH deliveries)

I agree with Which Frog though, in which perhaps only one person from each group should be picked. If this is the case, I'll be supporting Nasantha to be included due to the stupid amount of great things he's done for Push while we were there, and now New Evolution Express.
Annette Nolen
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-06-20 23:29:00 UTC
I'm a high-sec freighter pilot who has also done a lot of high-sec mfg and API/CREST tool development. If my viewpoint can help, I'm happy to offer it to this group. I'm equally happy to see any one of the above courier pilots that have already posted cover these niches instead.

That said, one viewpoint I also hope to see in the group is the time-honored tradition of contract scamming. I don't want citadel contract mechanics to be so airtight that there is NO opportunity to scam careless and inattentive pilots. For purely selfish reasons, though... contract risk is what gives careful and attentive courier groups like mine a competitive advantage.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#20 - 2016-06-21 00:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
And Now for Something Completely Different (I had to, I'm sorry).

I would probably be more suited for a general contract [replacement ;)] focus group, but I'm going to be the odd one out and post because I don't deal a whole lot with logistics/couriers. If this is solely about courier contracts and logistics then I won't be too useful, but if you need someone with general experience in using contracts, its quirks, problems, and potential areas for improvement, then I might be able to help!

I'm a station trader that does most of my business through contracts, the majority of items I trade being researched blueprints, but I have excessive experience using the contracts interface in general. I've personally accepted and created over 15k of the lovely things between 2013 and 2015.

I help 'run' an in-game chat channel called scc-lounge (also on Tweetfleet Slack) where lots of traders and industrialists hang out, this means I regularly chat with other players that use courier contracts, to and from all kinds of areas of space, in their day to day spacebusiness. I think most of us are more interested in the future structures rather than citadels and I know I'm very interested in how courier contracts will interact with the future industry structures. Some of those interests would apply to citadels too, such as whether I can have a courier deliver fuel directly to my structure's fuel bay, more options for delivery recipients/locations in general, and knowing I won't come home one day to a note left in my CQ from a courier telling me that since I wasn't was home and didn't leave the door open they've left my package in the trash, or worse, with a neighbour.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
(for instance, how we can best handle situations where the citadel explodes or changes access while a courier contract is in progress).

For exploding I think a 'return to sender' 'or nearest NPC station' mechanic would be the most appropriate, but then you have to decide on how the payment is handled. For access changes, this could be solved with a limited duration docking pass for the contractor, just watch out for those courier contracts with 365 days to complete; however, this would annoy the professional freight corps who rely on accepting contracts with alts, "Key to the Citadel - don't lose this"? Hmm, there's a lot to think about Big smile.
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