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Are Hurricanes pointless?
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Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2012-01-15 01:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Name Family Name
Liang Nuren wrote:
I find it funny that the Brick Squad guy is arguing about a small gang environment while the Amarr FW guy is arguing about massive fleet battles with supercaps and triage carriers.

-Liang



In case you're refering to me with 'the Amarr FW guy': out of 7 years playing this game with up to 5 accounts, I had one character on one of these accounts in Amarr FW for two years which ended about 2 years ago...
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-01-15 02:05:46 UTC
im noticing that lately fleet comps have a little more variation. significant number of Tier 3's running about. still no Gallente ships, other than the Talos.

as an aside, i will fly an armour Deimos over a Cane in an armour gang any day. DPS is about the same, slightly worse projection, but the Deimos is much easier to rep, it's faster and can sig tank like a champ.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-01-15 03:23:38 UTC
Havent read thread. By title, assume it is a troll. By page length, assume it is success.

10/10.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Robertson Nolen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-01-15 05:16:57 UTC
I like to fly pieces of paper, so i fly tornados. Never in my life would I want a cane with a decent amount of ehp
Cyzlaki
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2012-01-15 07:49:23 UTC
HAC's are useless now too. As the new BC's are better in every way while being cheaper
Kn1v3s 999
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-01-15 08:05:12 UTC
so Tier3 are better then Tier2 like Tier2 were and are better then Tier1 BC.

Discovering what? just don't fly it and you re fine.
Groperson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-01-15 14:15:13 UTC
Ahahaha brick squad are mentally deficient
Antodias
Ship spinners inc
#88 - 2012-01-15 19:40:21 UTC
EHP doesn't matter? Tracking doesn't matter?

God I've been playing EVE wrong for years
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#89 - 2012-01-15 20:50:17 UTC
@Title: Only if they don't fit a Warp Disruptor or Scrambler.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
DaRiKavus
Mosh Pit
THE BESTICLES
#90 - 2012-01-15 21:18:25 UTC
Greetings all,

Seems I am a little late to the party so I will say my piece and be off.

As a huge fan of the Cane I have a few points to make (some made previously and possibly better as well) All my comments come from small gang experience so please bear this in mind when reading futher.

In the past the Cane has proven to be a very versatile ship for me to fly. Nano fitted with dual neuts and a flight of light drones, it was possible to dictate range whilst dealing a relatively decent ammount of DPS (all be it right on the edge of falloff), mantain the GTFO factor as well as take some punishment before Logi could get some reps on you (if needed)
Armour fitted it is possible to fit dual webs and scram, web scram and TP, Web scram and ECCM etc etc. Bolt on a fair chunk of armor (65k EHP isnt so bad) and still reach 1400 m/s. Deal some nice DPS and take on a variety of targets solo or in a gang, under gate fire if needed. Same detail with lights or if your feeling particulary offensive some ECM drones can be thrown out for local tears.

Now we have the Tornado to play with. Now working with Nano fits I can get superior speed and range dictation, having an effective falloff from 33Kms out to 50 Kms plus (fit dependant ofc). Deal more DPS (on paper) but with half the tracking of med turrets a little more skill is required to fully apply damage to a target. I can not fight under gate guns either.

In short the Tornado, in perfect circumstances is better than a cane. However, IMHO, I now have less targets to engage (I dont mean solo). Couple of curse pilots fully loaded with Med Neuts/TD and a few Keres is going to ruin my day. Ofc that has always been the case with any ship type in Eve and there is a counter to every fleet comp.
I guess my point would be this.

Yes the Tornado is a powerful ship, no argument from me there. What I disagree with is the OP statement/question that the Cane is now useless. It still has its place in space and I will happily continue to fly it, amongst other "useless" ships that have been written off in the past.

Well I shall leave it there and wait for someone with more knowledge and experience rip my argument out from under me........still going to fly a cane though :)

Darik 07
Ilvari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2012-01-15 21:27:05 UTC
Ask occupational hazard how their sniper gangs work against an opponent that uses probes
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-01-15 23:29:02 UTC
A 1600mm Cane w/ HAMs can get 27% less dps and 56% better ehp than a Talos, as well as having better tracking and selectable damage types.

There's still a place for the Cane.
Cyzlaki
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#93 - 2012-01-16 00:53:03 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
A 1600mm Cane w/ HAMs can get 27% less dps and 56% better ehp than a Talos, as well as having better tracking and selectable damage types.

There's still a place for the Cane.

Deimos does everything better than an armor cane
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#94 - 2012-01-16 00:54:57 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
A 1600mm Cane w/ HAMs can get 27% less dps and 56% better ehp than a Talos, as well as having better tracking and selectable damage types.

There's still a place for the Cane.

Deimos does everything better than an armor cane



A HAC doing something better than a BC?

*gasp* - the imbalance!
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Aisha's Vengence
#95 - 2012-01-16 00:55:41 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
A 1600mm Cane w/ HAMs can get 27% less dps and 56% better ehp than a Talos, as well as having better tracking and selectable damage types.

There's still a place for the Cane.

Deimos does everything better than an armor cane


My Talos.
Cyzlaki
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2012-01-16 01:10:21 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Cyzlaki wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
A 1600mm Cane w/ HAMs can get 27% less dps and 56% better ehp than a Talos, as well as having better tracking and selectable damage types.

There's still a place for the Cane.

Deimos does everything better than an armor cane



A HAC doing something better than a BC?

*gasp* - the imbalance!

Yep. The point is, when going to fit a cane, there is always a superior alternative to it. And it's horrible in logi fleets anyway
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#97 - 2012-01-16 01:29:58 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:

Yep. The point is, when going to fit a cane, there is always a superior alternative to it. And it's horrible in logi fleets anyway



Ok - I'm in troll feeding mood...

And your problem with that is?

You claim a curse is better at neuting than a cane - true - you claim is a deimos can keep up with a cane - probably true.

Probably that's because a ship that's basically free to lose and can be flown by any 1-month old is supposed to be worse than more skill- and cost intensive specialized ships in their specialized roles.

Sheesh - what's next?

"Reapers are pointless because I can't solo an Erebus with it"?
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-01-16 01:38:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Cyzlaki wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
A 1600mm Cane w/ HAMs can get 27% less dps and 56% better ehp than a Talos, as well as having better tracking and selectable damage types.

There's still a place for the Cane.

Deimos does everything better than an armor cane


They have similar DPS, the 'Cane is slightly slower but has more range and selectable damage types, the Hurricane has 10k more EHP, the Hurricane has a second web, the Hurricane has a second neut.

Nope, sorry, try again.
Cyzlaki
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2012-01-16 01:41:05 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Cyzlaki wrote:

Yep. The point is, when going to fit a cane, there is always a superior alternative to it. And it's horrible in logi fleets anyway



Ok - I'm in troll feeding mood...

And your problem with that is?

You claim a curse is better at neuting than a cane - true - you claim is a deimos can keep up with a cane - probably true.

Probably that's because a ship that's basically free to lose and can be flown by any 1-month old is supposed to be worse than more skill- and cost intensive specialized ships in their specialized roles.

Sheesh - what's next?

"Reapers are pointless because I can't solo an Erebus with it"?

I don't have a problem with it and I'm not trolling. I don't know why you all get so defensive. What I'm saying is is, we're not 1 month old characters anymore, and yet people are still flying canes in horrible fleet compositions instead of the superior alternatives. I am asking why, when it is pointless to do so. Or maybe there has been something I've overlooked. If this thread is any indication, people fly acane over other ships because of it's tank, which I find rather amusing as it has quite a poor tank for a BC
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#100 - 2012-01-16 02:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Cyzlaki wrote:

I don't have a problem with it and I'm not trolling. I don't know why you all get so defensive. What I'm saying is is, we're not 1 month old characters anymore, and yet people are still flying canes in horrible fleet compositions instead of the superior alternatives. I am asking why, when it is pointless to do so. Or maybe there has been something I've overlooked. If this thread is any indication, people fly acane over other ships because of it's tank, which I find rather amusing as it has quite a poor tank for a BC



Because it is not pointless - a uniform cane-gang is easy to form, mobile and versatile, because everyone can fly a cane - this game has been cane/drake/dramiel-online for the last three years.

FC a gang for a low SP corp and ask for ships - everyone can fly a cane and is willing to bring it thanks to low cost - ask for a specific hac/recon/logi combo and you're lost because of people who think the can fly the ship because of all V skills but can't fly it at all or people who say they can fly it because they can sit in it.

All in all it boils down to the problem of T1 insurance - flying a cane is no risk at all whereas the loss of 5 HACs/Recons costs more than a carrier being popped.

Of course that's not because of things being expensive (thanks to incursions, everyone's a billionaire), but because of K/D faggottery.

To sum this drunken rant up:
- If you think you'd do better in a well-composed HAC/Recon gang, do it if you can.
- If you think you fly with a blob of 3 month old casuals who think they own, field canes.
- If you think you're flying with total imbeciles that are outsmarted by a keyboard macro, fly drakes.

We'll see where the Talos settles in, but OP? no - not at all - maybe slightly favourable under some circumstances after the null buff...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)