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When MINING was FUN and Team-spirited
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Shanti Shanti
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-06-06 15:29:29 UTC
The story goes something like this...

They awarded points for being 'Asteroid Responsible' to miners who managed to clean belts fully before DT. And when there was enough miners in the system to clean most of the belts before DT, the total volume of ore in the system began to increase. At first slowly, but the longer they kept at it the more rapidly it grew.

Nobody knows if it's true, but the legend says that a group of mad miners once kept cleaning a system for 20 days straight without a moment of sleep. On the 21st day, right after DT, there were no belts spawned in the system, instead a glorious anomaly opened. They flew in and found a field of roids so vast and rich, of all ore types imaginable, hundreds of thousands of miners would not have cleaned it for years! Nobody knows what happened to those miners, when DT came the anomaly disappeared and they with it. After DT, the system was the same as it used to be,.. and yet, never quite the same again.

Suddenly, miners all over Eveverse had so many more reasons to co-operate with each other. Organized ops started happening naturally all over the place and people threw away the apathy and began to strive for new friendships and towards greater goals. They were part of something bigger now, the whole much greater than its own individual parts. Mining thrived and the fun of it with it.

That is the story of 'When MINING was FUN and Team-spirited' and it happened not so long ago in my imagination. And I was just wondering how it would fare in our world.

What'cha thinking?

Blessings,
Shanti
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2016-06-06 15:33:00 UTC
And then the mineral market crashed and all the miners were sad. The end.

PS - miners already cooperate and have fun together in 0.0.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#3 - 2016-06-06 17:00:22 UTC
Because of the way the economy in eve is designed, increasing the yield of miners does nothing. If you produce more ore then the value of the ore drops and you have to mine more ore to make the same amount thus cancelling out the yield gains.


The only way to increase profits for mining is for more people to lose more ships. The more stuff that gets destroyed the more minerals required to build new stuff, the more ore is worth.


So if you want to increase the profits of miners, start a major war where trillions of isk worth of ships are lost. Do that about once every 4-6 weeks and you will see the value of minerals start to climb.
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#4 - 2016-06-07 04:43:20 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Because of the way the economy in eve is designed, increasing the yield of miners does nothing. If you produce more ore then the value of the ore drops and you have to mine more ore to make the same amount thus cancelling out the yield gains.


The only way to increase profits for mining is for more people to lose more ships. The more stuff that gets destroyed the more minerals required to build new stuff, the more ore is worth.


So if you want to increase the profits of miners, start a major war where trillions of isk worth of ships are lost. Do that about once every 4-6 weeks and you will see the value of minerals start to climb.


This is only part of the story though...
If you make minerals cheeper you can build more ships then ship prices drop and you can buy more/bigger ones that won't hurt as much to lose and so you can pvp more often. Then miners stop mining and pvp more often and prices go back up.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#5 - 2016-06-07 05:33:11 UTC
darkneko wrote:
Then miners stop mining and pvp more often...


This part made me laugh...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#6 - 2016-06-07 05:37:58 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
darkneko wrote:
Then miners stop mining and pvp more often...


This part made me laugh...


Yeah it was ment to lol, I forgot the "Lol"
Wimzy Chent-Shi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-06-07 09:00:25 UTC
Why mine vast riches if I disappear afterwards?

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#8 - 2016-06-07 09:08:56 UTC
You mean like every single system in Null, look up how the industrial index works and how mining anomalies improve, then realise that the null lobby got given handouts by CCP that mean they can ignore the belts and mine just the anomalies. (Note, I'm not against null mining being valuable, I am against them being able to utterly ignore the belts)

I.E. Your system already exists, and mining anomalies null style should be spread across EVE and the static belts should be removed. Make them Grav clusters rather than 'Asteroid belts' and things make more science sense, and it removes Downtime from the equation of cherry picking also.
Shanti Shanti
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-06-07 19:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shanti Shanti
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
You mean like every single system in Null, look up how the industrial index works and how mining anomalies improve, then realise that the null lobby got given handouts by CCP that mean they can ignore the belts and mine just the anomalies. (Note, I'm not against null mining being valuable, I am against them being able to utterly ignore the belts)

I.E. Your system already exists, and mining anomalies null style should be spread across EVE and the static belts should be removed. Make them Grav clusters rather than 'Asteroid belts' and things make more science sense, and it removes Downtime from the equation of cherry picking also.


Thanks for this valuable wall of informational text!

Bless you.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2016-06-07 19:32:37 UTC
I@no way that this would be farmed and exploited...

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Vailen Sere
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2016-06-07 20:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vailen Sere
darkneko wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
darkneko wrote:
Then miners stop mining and pvp more often...


This part made me laugh...


Yeah it was ment to lol, I forgot the "Lol"


I mine and pvp.

By mining, I am simply waiting for someone to come to me to pew as opposed to flying everywhere looking for them.
Dantelion Shinoni
Empirical Inventions
#12 - 2016-06-08 15:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dantelion Shinoni
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

So if you want to increase the profits of miners, start a major war where trillions of isk worth of ships are lost. Do that about once every 4-6 weeks and you will see the value of minerals start to climb.


I don't think what she was talking about was increasing the profits of miners, but of making the activity more valued and more meaningful.

I actually like the concept behind her idea, miners are herbivores, and as such one way to make their gameplay more interesting is by valuing the herd/horde aspect of them.
A reward for groups of miners for making bigger and bigger fleets with bigger and bigger mining power would make for meaningful gameplay and a way to make the activity more sociable (or with even more bots/alts), it would give them an area of mastery, with the best miners achieving the greatest mining power.


Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

I.E. Your system already exists, and mining anomalies null style should be spread across EVE and the static belts should be removed. Make them Grav clusters rather than 'Asteroid belts' and things make more science sense, and it removes Downtime from the equation of cherry picking also.


Wholeheartedly agree!

It's weird that the Empires haven't yet figured a way to just automate the farming of those giants asteroid belts when they can rip holes through reality itself.
Minerals should be absolutely rare type of formations that can only happen in specific gravitational conditions, said gravitational conditions are fickle and thus ask for searching and a lot of mining power to make use of the thing before it disappears.


This coupled with the OP idea would in a way create "Time Trials". You have X minutes to mine as much from that thing as you can. Reach a certain threshold and the anomaly gives out a reward before disappearing. Bring your friends, bring your alts, and fleets and drill the **** out of that anom!
Shanti Shanti
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-06-10 10:29:17 UTC
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

So if you want to increase the profits of miners, start a major war where trillions of isk worth of ships are lost. Do that about once every 4-6 weeks and you will see the value of minerals start to climb.


I don't think what she was talking about was increasing the profits of miners, but of making the activity more valued and more meaningful.

I actually like the concept behind her idea, miners are herbivores, and as such one way to make their gameplay more interesting is by valuing the herd/horde aspect of them.
A reward for groups of miners for making bigger and bigger fleets with bigger and bigger mining power would make for meaningful gameplay and a way to make the activity more sociable (or with even more bots/alts), it would give them an area of mastery, with the best miners achieving the greatest mining power.


Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

I.E. Your system already exists, and mining anomalies null style should be spread across EVE and the static belts should be removed. Make them Grav clusters rather than 'Asteroid belts' and things make more science sense, and it removes Downtime from the equation of cherry picking also.


Wholeheartedly agree!

It's weird that the Empires haven't yet figured a way to just automate the farming of those giants asteroid belts when they can rip holes through reality itself.
Minerals should be absolutely rare type of formations that can only happen in specific gravitational conditions, said gravitational conditions are fickle and thus ask for searching and a lot of mining power to make use of the thing before it disappears.


This coupled with the OP idea would in a way create "Time Trials". You have X minutes to mine as much from that thing as you can. Reach a certain threshold and the anomaly gives out a reward before disappearing. Bring your friends, bring your alts, and fleets and drill the **** out of that anom!


Thank you for this well written perspective.

And yes, my idea is to introduce more of teamspirit to mining activity, like that there are shorter and perhaps more engaging goals to pursuit while going after those long-term ones we've dreamed up in our minds.
Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2016-06-10 12:02:31 UTC
Shanti Shanti wrote:
And yes, my idea is to introduce more of teamspirit to mining activity, like that there are shorter and perhaps more engaging goals to pursuit while going after those long-term ones we've dreamed up in our minds.

If you lack team spirit to your mining, you should probably join a corp with more team spirit about mining.
If you lack engaging goals to pursue while mining, perhaps you should join a corp with more goals than "dur, we sell pretty rocks for isk."

Mining is already team oriented, if you have the right goals. Do the math on how long it'd take a solo miner to mine a single cruiser's worth of minerals, then multiply that by a few hundred to meet the needs of an alliance doctrine.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#15 - 2016-06-10 12:45:49 UTC
When- and wherever I mine, I ask people in local for Orca links and talk to them - preposterous I know but the second they see my Procurer undock I get an invite and can mine with links and even talk to new folks.

They remember you, you remember them and years later they let you out of a gate-bubble camp because they recognize you from way back when and tell their buddies about you.

You just made a meaningful connection to someone with a leap of faith.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever