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DirectX 11 and Wine
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Christian Richter
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-02-26 20:33:13 UTC
What happens if CPP discontinues DX9 support? I don't know if wine runs with DX11. Will DX9 still be available until wine supports DX11?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/changes-to-os-minimum-requirements/
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#2 - 2016-02-27 06:48:30 UTC
Christian Richter wrote:
What happens if CPP discontinues DX9 support?

They'll have to discontinue mac suppot then.
Christian Richter
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-02-27 19:43:14 UTC
Tan'Natok
Storm Chasers.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2016-03-02 11:03:08 UTC
Not exactly a glowing review of the status of dx11.

:)

Long way to go yet.
Sir Francis Bacon
Weary Travelers
#5 - 2016-03-19 14:28:56 UTC
I don't think that they would discontinue dx9 support anytime soon, I imagine a large portion of the player base are still using dx9 even on windows machines. Old hardware and what not.
Syrix Death
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-06-03 13:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrix Death
Sir Francis Bacon wrote:
I don't think that they would discontinue dx9 support anytime soon, I imagine a large portion of the player base are still using dx9 even on windows machines. Old hardware and what not.


https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/directx-9-phase-out/
Ravow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2016-06-03 15:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravow
They will put features DX11 exclusive, stuff that you can't do on DX9 and stuff that will take too much time to port. They will not kill the DX9 client until MAC (and so Linux) get a DX11 support. What we might get i what we got I don't remember how much time ago, a "classic" and a "premium" client where the only difference is the graphics quality.
Syrix Death
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2016-06-03 17:18:40 UTC
Ravow wrote:
They will put features DX11 exclusive, stuff that you can't do on DX9 and stuff that will take too much time to port. They will not kill the DX9 client until MAC (and so Linux) get a DX11 support. What we might get i what we got I don't remember how much time ago, a "classic" and a "premium" client where the only difference is the graphics quality.


Quote:
Although we have no immediate plans to completely remove DirectX 9 support, it is an inevitable conclusion.


There wont be DX11 support for wine. At least not soon (this or next year). They will try to make a *.dmg-binary MAC client with its own launcher, but this doesnt help linux users. This MAC binary doesnt run on linux. I dont think linux users can keep on playing eve online once dx9 is suspended.

We will see ... But mybe i'm wrong as the mac client got wine under its hood too. As i said, we will see
Ravow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-06-04 03:04:17 UTC
Syrix Death wrote:
Ravow wrote:
They will put features DX11 exclusive, stuff that you can't do on DX9 and stuff that will take too much time to port. They will not kill the DX9 client until MAC (and so Linux) get a DX11 support. What we might get i what we got I don't remember how much time ago, a "classic" and a "premium" client where the only difference is the graphics quality.


Quote:
Although we have no immediate plans to completely remove DirectX 9 support, it is an inevitable conclusion.


There wont be DX11 support for wine. At least not soon (this or next year). They will try to make a *.dmg-binary MAC client with its own launcher, but this doesnt help linux users. This MAC binary doesnt run on linux. I dont think linux users can keep on playing eve online once dx9 is suspended.

We will see ... But mybe i'm wrong as the mac client got wine under its hood too. As i said, we will see


Well, the EVE client use DX9 and DX11. The mac client is the Windows client with Wine (it use to be cider(inferior, old MIT Wine with D3D improvement) but they are moving to use Wine). Even if they make a binary whatever dmg, it still will be the Windows client, I don't think they will port EVE to OpenGL to make a real MAC client.

And the launcher they use is the same one as the one they released on Linux (pretty sure it's the same code plus some ifdef for Linux and MAC specifics like path and maybe one or two others things).

And for your information, *.dmg are for OSX what *.tar.* is for Linux.
Woo Mi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-06-04 08:32:19 UTC
Sigh. I hope the sky doesn't come crashing down then.
I had some hopes that with the uptake of steam this would accelerate the development of directx11/12 for wine, but it seems developers targeting steam are making their games using opengl. Ah wellSad
Ravow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-06-04 16:38:54 UTC
If only people did actually maintain the gift mesa got in 2010.. A dx10&11 state tracker that could run dx11 stuff back in 2011 (unlile wine that took until 2016...). Thet state tracker got nuked out of mesa in 2013 because of bit rotting, if people have maintened it and improved it, EVE would run in Linux the way it run with the nine state tracker and would be working fine by two year ago.
Cagot
Zendian Solutions
#12 - 2016-06-04 21:23:11 UTC
Stupid question time. What's better about DirectX 11? Is it really worth CCP's time to move toward it?

I'm not a pro (either in video or EVE), but between runs of the real stuff I do on Linux I booted Win10 from the other partition and tried EVE with both DirectX 9 and -11 to try it out. It worked fine on my hardware. I didn't see anything particularly different... is the effect particularly subtle?

Is it wonderfully efficient, or does it give sexier skin tones for some coming CQ update, or is it easier to program, or just what?
Ravow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2016-06-04 22:28:50 UTC
Cagot wrote:
Stupid question time. What's better about DirectX 11? Is it really worth CCP's time to move toward it?

I'm not a pro (either in video or EVE), but between runs of the real stuff I do on Linux I booted Win10 from the other partition and tried EVE with both DirectX 9 and -11 to try it out. It worked fine on my hardware. I didn't see anything particularly different... is the effect particularly subtle?

Is it wonderfully efficient, or does it give sexier skin tones for some coming CQ update, or is it easier to program, or just what?


It allow you to do more fancy stuff. You can do the same than dx9 plus fancy stuff like for exemple, tesselation. Tesselation will allow you to make thing more pretier by adding more polygon to the mesh without designing them. Stuff are getting really more beautiful but its in exchanges you get a huge performance dip. From what I understant, lot of the new feature taxe the performance, tesselation is one of the worst. And its the reason that some game support both API and lot of people will use dx9 becose its often faster.
Glengrant
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-06-14 10:00:19 UTC
Syrix Death wrote:
Ravow wrote:
They will put features DX11 exclusive, stuff that you can't do on DX9 and stuff that will take too much time to port. They will not kill the DX9 client until MAC (and so Linux) get a DX11 support. What we might get i what we got I don't remember how much time ago, a "classic" and a "premium" client where the only difference is the graphics quality.


Quote:
Although we have no immediate plans to completely remove DirectX 9 support, it is an inevitable conclusion.


There wont be DX11 support for wine. At least not soon (this or next year). They will try to make a *.dmg-binary MAC client with its own launcher, but this doesnt help linux users. This MAC binary doesnt run on linux. I dont think linux users can keep on playing eve online once dx9 is suspended.

We will see ... But mybe i'm wrong as the mac client got wine under its hood too. As i said, we will see


The old official Mac client - AFAIK and IIRC - is wrapped in an old wine fork by Cedega.
And as that old Cedega wrapper is bit rotting while the mainline wine has moved on - a lot - CCP seems to be in the process of moving the mac client to run on modern wine. If you look at the osx threads where people have tried out the mac version of the new launcher - you'll find out that Mac users are very happy with the improvements.

The unofficial/unsupported evelauncher for linux mainly exists because it is not that different from the mac version.

You are correct - the mac binary doesn't run on linux - but it does run through wine - just like eve on linux.
And mac osx - like - Linux - is a unix-like OS. Open a terminal on a mac and any unixy user will feel (almost) at home.
OSX is based on a forked BSD (open source derivate of the original Unix) married to the Mach Kernel (which in turn was inherited from Next). And just like Linux - OSX doesn't have directx.
Tek Tonich
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-06-14 11:14:51 UTC
Syrix Death wrote:
Ravow wrote:
They will put features DX11 exclusive, stuff that you can't do on DX9 and stuff that will take too much time to port. They will not kill the DX9 client until MAC (and so Linux) get a DX11 support. What we might get i what we got I don't remember how much time ago, a "classic" and a "premium" client where the only difference is the graphics quality.


Quote:
Although we have no immediate plans to completely remove DirectX 9 support, it is an inevitable conclusion.


There wont be DX11 support for wine. At least not soon (this or next year). They will try to make a *.dmg-binary MAC client with its own launcher, but this doesnt help linux users. This MAC binary doesnt run on linux. I dont think linux users can keep on playing eve online once dx9 is suspended.

We will see ... But mybe i'm wrong as the mac client got wine under its hood too. As i said, we will see


DX11 support is already there and working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3IMHBTjQM
It seems to me we are getting pretty close :)
Terrifiedkiller
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2016-07-08 02:57:17 UTC
Christian Richter wrote:
What happens if CPP discontinues DX9 support? I don't know if wine runs with DX11. Will DX9 still be available until wine supports DX11?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/changes-to-os-minimum-requirements/


dx11 has been working for me no problem even the shield effects are working now. If your using Ubuntu or a varient might wana try to ensure your using wine's official repository (im a fedora user myself and recall the versions of wine ubuntu's default repositoryes are a bit on the outdated side) that and d3dx11_43 and d3dx11_43 installed via winetricks + d3d11 set to native (as opposed to disabled) and you should have a working dx11 client dispite the fps tool thats in eve reporting otherwise

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25823&iTestingId=92426 for more info
Ravow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-07-10 06:23:58 UTC
Terrifiedkiller wrote:
Christian Richter wrote:
What happens if CPP discontinues DX9 support? I don't know if wine runs with DX11. Will DX9 still be available until wine supports DX11?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/changes-to-os-minimum-requirements/


dx11 has been working for me no problem even the shield effects are working now. If your using Ubuntu or a varient might wana try to ensure your using wine's official repository (im a fedora user myself and recall the versions of wine ubuntu's default repositoryes are a bit on the outdated side) that and d3dx11_43 and d3dx11_43 installed via winetricks + d3d11 set to native (as opposed to disabled) and you should have a working dx11 client dispite the fps tool thats in eve reporting otherwise

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25823&iTestingId=92426 for more info


Are you sure your actually using DX9? Like you said, it still show dx9 in the client and I have all the shield/armors effect, using Native DX9 (nine) so these effect are not actually dx11 effect.. They might be or not be supported properly depending of the display drivers your using but they are definitively dx9 (Volume textures are just messy on OpenGL).
eug3nio Anninen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-07-19 12:11:54 UTC
Terrifiedkiller wrote:
Christian Richter wrote:
What happens if CPP discontinues DX9 support? I don't know if wine runs with DX11. Will DX9 still be available until wine supports DX11?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/changes-to-os-minimum-requirements/


dx11 has been working for me no problem even the shield effects are working now. If your using Ubuntu or a varient might wana try to ensure your using wine's official repository (im a fedora user myself and recall the versions of wine ubuntu's default repositoryes are a bit on the outdated side) that and d3dx11_43 and d3dx11_43 installed via winetricks + d3d11 set to native (as opposed to disabled) and you should have a working dx11 client dispite the fps tool thats in eve reporting otherwise

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25823&iTestingId=92426 for more info


i'm actually playing with ubuntu 16.04 and dx9 checked in the luncher
if i try to use eve with DX11 the game won't start even if i got DX11 installed and d3dx11_43 set as native.....

any suggestion or further thing to do in order to got it working??

e**ug3n[u]i**o[/u]
madam hash
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-09-05 11:25:56 UTC
They could just go vulkan and give everyone a native build
Merende Macaco
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2016-09-07 19:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Merende Macaco
Actually its getting real close. I just launched with my client in DX11 mode with 1.9.18 wine staging. Lots of flickering and other artifacts, but it no longer just crashes before launch. I am just too pressed for time to play with it at the moment, but it looks like it will be playable soon (tm).
Addedum, can undock warp and dock, but rendering is iffy.
I should add, my wineprefix uses no overrides - no winetricks.
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