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NO DROP FOR GANKERS?????

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2016-06-02 11:22:19 UTC
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?

When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg.

When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.

I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be.

From my anecdotal evidences:
Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules.

Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2016-06-02 13:43:31 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?

When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg.

When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.



The game does not care if the player think in ISK instead of in items. The code run in item stacks so the value can vary by a lot depending on the value of each unique stack but that's no fault of the game.
ornella Tivianne
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2016-06-02 14:16:38 UTC
ganking is paying far too much anyway. should be barely profitable.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2016-06-02 14:42:59 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.

Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."

Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!"

tHIS IS 100% TRUE except FOR THE PART WHERE YOU SAY IF SOME OTHER SCRUB STARTED A PROOFLESS TINFOIL WHINY THREAD ON AN ALT YOU THINK WE WOULD ALSO NOT TROLL THEM.

God highsec players, weather merc, ganker, or bear are the worst.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2016-06-02 14:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
I just look at 4 of the top 5 kills in Niarja. (Timestamps:
2016-05-31 21:45
2016-05-29 14:46
2016-05-30 13:38
2016-05-29 10:17)

They dropped a total of 33 out of an even 70 items. This is a 47% drop rate. I know it's only 4 samples but it's 4 more than anyone saying otherwise has provided. Numbers or GTFO.

EDIT: Actually it's 70 samples as each drop is calculated individually. Plz quit whining now?
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#66 - 2016-06-02 15:04:43 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
God highsec players, weather merc, ganker, or bear are the worst.


OH, now you've done it...

In truth, where you live doesn't seem to effect the whine level. I've watched LoSecc'ers come and cry here, NullSecc'ers go bonkers. It's the human beast that doesn't like change but actually creates change all the time. We're kind of weird that way.

Everyone gripes about what is irking them at that particular moment. Some folks turn it into an art form.

Just pat them on the back, give them a hug and move on.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#67 - 2016-06-02 16:16:50 UTC
This is a thread about droppings!
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#68 - 2016-06-02 17:02:18 UTC
It'd be pretty lazy programming and risky to rely purely on an RNG, as they are never really R.

As stated on the first page, it's more likely that it's a programmed algorithm that is fine-tuned to give the appearance of randomosity (tm).

I guess it a compliment to the programmers that so many folks believe it to be random.

What's the saying? "The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist."

Dum Spiro Spero
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#69 - 2016-06-02 17:33:05 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?

When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg.

When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.

I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be.

From my anecdotal evidences:
Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules.

Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.




I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability.

For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp.

You roll the car.

Which item in the trunk survives intact?

I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kipp Braddock
Doomheim
#70 - 2016-06-02 18:35:33 UTC
No drop for gankers.


I'll shed (a) tear for you.

Curious - since this is a RNG game, wouldn't be cool if your ganks in rookie and frigate ships reflected equally for both sides?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2016-06-02 19:17:44 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?

When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg.

When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.

I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be.

From my anecdotal evidences:
Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules.

Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.




I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability.

For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp.

You roll the car.

Which item in the trunk survives intact?

I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores.




So armor plates and hull mods survive since they are solid structure and the rest always shatter because electronics don't fare well during explosions?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#72 - 2016-06-02 19:48:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?

When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg.

When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.

I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be.

From my anecdotal evidences:
Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules.

Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.




I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability.

For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp.

You roll the car.

Which item in the trunk survives intact?

I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores.




So armor plates and hull mods survive since they are solid structure and the rest always shatter because electronics don't fare well during explosions?



Maybe. I would imagine though that electronics would further suffer if the damage type used to down the vessel was EM. But there is no known effect of damage type and drops.

(I'm having Tie Fighter flashbacks taking out B-wings using strictly ion cannons to disable them)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2016-06-02 20:05:30 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
You really haven't said what you mean by the drop is less, but I take you mean the value of things dropping?

When you look at the zkillboard for kills made by catalysts not many have 50% drop if you look at the value of the kill mail. But if you look at the number of things/mods and stacks in cargo that can drop the numbers look closer to 50% on avg.

When people talk about profitability of ganking they don't talk about number of dropped items. They talk about ISK value in wreck against ISK needed to blow the target. And they usually use '50%'.

I guess it's deeper than simple number of items. Or it should be.

From my anecdotal evidences:
Let's say Heron with 3 cargohold expanders hauling 1000 datacores in one pack. In such cases i almost never see datacores dropped. It's almost always T1/T2 modules.

Or when some ship had faction/T2/T1 combination of modules. In my cases it's almost 100% that no faction modules will drop.




I wonder if it's ever possible to attribute some items to variable survivability.

For example, suppose you have a car and in the trunk of the car you have a steel toolbox and a fancy fru fru tiffany lamp.

You roll the car.

Which item in the trunk survives intact?

I would imagine a cargo hold of turrets to survive better than a bunch of fragile data cores.




So armor plates and hull mods survive since they are solid structure and the rest always shatter because electronics don't fare well during explosions?



Maybe. I would imagine though that electronics would further suffer if the damage type used to down the vessel was EM. But there is no known effect of damage type and drops.

(I'm having Tie Fighter flashbacks taking out B-wings using strictly ion cannons to disable them)



Electronics react badly to everything. Heat mess it up so thermal is good to damage it, it react badly to explosions (what doesn't anyway?), it react badly to EM shockwave and I'm pretty sure kinetic impact are bad for it too...
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#74 - 2016-06-02 22:17:39 UTC
I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0

Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do.

Dum Spiro Spero
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#75 - 2016-06-02 22:47:58 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.

Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."

Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!"

tHIS IS 100% TRUE except FOR THE PART WHERE YOU SAY IF SOME OTHER SCRUB STARTED A PROOFLESS TINFOIL WHINY THREAD ON AN ALT YOU THINK WE WOULD ALSO NOT TROLL THEM.

God highsec players, weather merc, ganker, or bear are the worst.


I just don't think people would be so "Well if it was, then good!" about it.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2016-06-03 07:43:28 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Though this seems like a product of gambling psychology, this thread does reveal how willing people are to accept obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics -just so long as it only affects those mean ol' gankers.

Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."

Ganker starts this thread: "Good! You're a bad person and don't deserve anything. I hope your children never learn to read!"


Your premise is wrong. What people are saying is that there no "obviously skewed/unfair drop mechanics". And if there is, prove it. But OP or anyone else has not been able to do this. That you guys cannot understand that 50% of the stacks drop, but that the stacks does not have the same value, is not our problem and it is not unfair.

Another fault in your reasoning is that you think this only applies to gankers. This applies to every PVP'er, but every PVP'er is not whining..... only you and OP....

The third wrong statement you make "Anyone else starts a thread like this: "Hmm, that's interesting, we should look into this."". Literally go to GD and look at every whinebear thread and see how they are trolled to oblivion.

So the reason you guys get heat, is because your arguments are bad not because you are suicide gankers. Many of us are also gankers in one form or another (Bloppers and gatecampers). And any day of the week I would point out bad arguments, where I see them regardless of what you do in EVE. So you are not getting special treatment, you just think you are.


"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#77 - 2016-06-03 08:23:05 UTC
PayMyIskNOW wrote:
... ratting or
PI as you probably do.
Pathetic!



I, personaly, find pathetic to shoot defenseless ships, unless they are war targets. True heroes fight for their race, soverenity, some place they call "home", IMHO. But I understand, that for many 1337 pvpiers ganking can be the way to fix their selfesteem... For me Eve is beautiful because it has lore, it is more then simple "counter-strike in space".

Ganking as source of ISK seems to me weird, so I would welcome if criminal act will not result in droping some lootable wrecks at all. Or since after citadels we already have "assets safety", why not implement same for freighters, that were killed in high sec without being war target. On the other hand simple no loot wreck for anything, that was ganked, would be even better for eve economy. More ISK sinks we have - the better.

I know very well, CCP does not see it that way and it is their game. So we can see the single item from cargo hold droped as loot, just like that. With such examples in mind, I would say, that OP is not correct - loot still drops as before. Here it seems, that ISK value of droped items is very low comparing to total kill worth, but it is just because 6000 pieces of Nanite Repair Paste is one item of loot, just as1 Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I. Number of destroyed and salvaged items is exactly 50/50, though ISK value is incomparable.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#78 - 2016-06-03 08:28:56 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0

Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do.



I wrecked an HDD the same way.

The MacBook Pro surrounded it survived thankfully (Boss's laptop Shocked )

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-06-03 08:30:38 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0

Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do.

Exploding pixels don't actually get damaged, they just change RGB values.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#80 - 2016-06-03 08:37:46 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
KaarBaak wrote:
I dropped a brand new 3TB HDD two feet onto concrete and it's toast. ISK value = 0

Can't imagine what being inside an exploding spaceship would do.

Exploding pixels don't actually get damaged, they just change RGB values.

Actually for capsuleer i think its like a hit in back of the head, they become uncoscious and last thing they can see by split of a second with implants and the rest of functioning equipment still attached from capsule to their body is when camera drone zooms onto their naked and bruised body in space.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

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