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Noctis Balance Pass
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2016-05-25 00:00:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
With the upcoming changes to the Rorqual and visual graphics update to the ORE ships, it would be nice to see a minor balance pass to the Noctis to make it more useful. Specifically:

• A 25-50% increase in base cargo capacity
• Allowing it to use a Medium Micro Jump Drive
• 25% increase in base targeting range
• 100% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity (up from 60%)
• Inherent warp core strength of +1

I've removed the suggestions for salvage drones because the consensus seems to be that they're not very useful in the grand scheme of things. Personally, I find that if you deploy them and engage prior to locking targets, the there's some value in the 'nuisance' salvage aspect. Rather than adding a new tractor beam bonus my recommendation is just to buff the range and velocity along with the maximum targeting range. I believe this would give it slightly more range than the base MTU. I've left the idea for the Medium MJD in but removed consideration for an extra slot. Instead, I've addeded +1 to warp core strength so it can be a bit more of an annoyance pilaging cargo from other players.
.....

A few points I wanted to quickly touch on...
• The cargo capacity of the Noctis is 1460m3. The cargo capacity of a single MTU is 27000m3. Even with a modest 25-50% boost, you're still looking at a very reasonable capacity in-line with most industrial transports.
• An increase to the base targeting range on the Noctis will still fall well short of the acquisition range of most MTUs (125-175km).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2016-05-25 04:53:27 UTC
That seems.... fine. Not inspiring, but it's not an inspiring ship to start with.

Might be fun to see it get the Venture treatment and have a T2 version with a covops cloak. For no *real* reason, but I'm sure someone would use it to tool around and loot battlefields in null.
Iain Cariaba
#3 - 2016-05-25 05:17:22 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
With the upcoming changes to the Rorqual and visual graphics update to the ORE ships, it would be nice to see a minor balance pass to the Noctis to make it more useful. Specifically:

• Allowing it to fit and use a Medium Micro Jump Drive
• The addition of one (1) extra medium slot
• A 50% increase in base cargo capacity
• 10% increase in salvager range per ORE Industrial level
• 5% increase to salvage drone effectiveness per ORE Industrial level

Three issues.

Current cargo space is more than adequate. You can currently salvage multiple high end anoms or lvl 4 missions if you cherry pick the loot. Isk/m3 is a thing, after all.

Given the base range of a salvager, a 10%/lvl increase is worthless. You're talking and extra 3km range on a t2 salvager at ORE Industrial V. Simply running a single cycle of a tractor beam moves the wreck much farther than that.

Salvage drones on a Noctis? LolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLol

*gasp*

LolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLol

Salvage drones are so pathetically weak compared to the base ability of a Noctis that it makes no sense to use them.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2016-05-25 13:26:44 UTC
Hang on...

What do you need more cargo for? Hard to fill them when they are fit with salvage rigs. So you can get more space out of them that way.
What do you need an extra mid-slot for? Or a mjd?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#5 - 2016-05-25 14:05:08 UTC
Instead of a useless bonus to salvage beam range how about increasing the bonus to tractor beam range and / or speed that would make more sense and it would actually be useful for many Noctis pilots. The bonus to salvage beam range is not enough to matter and if you are one of those that uses a Noctis to clean up after an MTU has collected all the stuff the extra salvage beam range is not needed so it would be a wasted bonus.

Salvage drones on a Noctis, as they say that is rich and I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read it. Who even bothers with them, all they are is a nuisance when working with a Noctis. Tractor drones I could see but salvage drones just say no.

Likewise an MJD would be useless in all but an extremely limited set of circumstances and as such it would be a wasted bonus, again I would rather it be given to tractor beam range / speed.
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#6 - 2016-05-25 17:27:37 UTC
So i had this happen to me once - i combat probed a Noctis in highsec with a Magnate. I parked next to him, jut 1 km closer to the wrecks he was pulling. I salvaged 3/4 of a "Worlds Collide" Sansha room with 2 t1 salvagers (salvaging 4) and 3 Salvage tackle rigs and Amarr frig 5.

I'd still insist that it was actually a product of me outsmarting that guy, but when i kept doing that on and on for a week... you know, there might be something wrong with that 80m ship, when a 3mill frig(with fit) flies circles around it and laughs as it outdoes it at its sole purpose.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#7 - 2016-05-25 18:04:12 UTC
extra tractor range and speed would make the noctis more significant against the MTU.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2016-05-25 21:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Daichi Yamato wrote:
extra tractor range and speed would make the noctis more significant against the MTU.

Good suggestion (amended).

Donnachadh wrote:
Instead of a useless bonus to salvage beam range how about increasing the bonus to tractor beam range and / or speed that would make more sense and it would actually be useful for many Noctis pilots.

Iain Cariaba wrote:
Salvage drones on a Noctis? *gasp*
Yeah, ok - point taken. I'm not sure if the bonus I suggested is sufficient, but let me know.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#9 - 2016-05-25 22:51:57 UTC
Vesan Terakol wrote:
So i had this happen to me once - i combat probed a Noctis in highsec with a Magnate. I parked next to him, jut 1 km closer to the wrecks he was pulling. I salvaged 3/4 of a "Worlds Collide" Sansha room with 2 t1 salvagers (salvaging 4) and 3 Salvage tackle rigs and Amarr frig 5.

I'd still insist that it was actually a product of me outsmarting that guy, but when i kept doing that on and on for a week... you know, there might be something wrong with that 80m ship, when a 3mill frig(with fit) flies circles around it and laughs as it outdoes it at its sole purpose.

After the first or second time, he should have tried to learn what he could do about how to keep you from just wandering into his site (local+set you red, dscan).

It's not a problem with the ship. The Noctis will still clean up any pile of wrecks worth salvaging faster than any of the T1 exploration frigates.

A signature :o
Iain Cariaba
#10 - 2016-05-25 23:07:25 UTC
Vesan Terakol wrote:
So i had this happen to me once - i combat probed a Noctis in highsec with a Magnate. I parked next to him, jut 1 km closer to the wrecks he was pulling. I salvaged 3/4 of a "Worlds Collide" Sansha room with 2 t1 salvagers (salvaging 4) and 3 Salvage tackle rigs and Amarr frig 5.

I'd still insist that it was actually a product of me outsmarting that guy, but when i kept doing that on and on for a week... you know, there might be something wrong with that 80m ship, when a 3mill frig(with fit) flies circles around it and laughs as it outdoes it at its sole purpose.

I see nothing wrong there, for one reason.

Magnate Show Info wrote:
Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength
5% reduction in Salvager duration


Noctis Show Info wrote:
ORE Industrial bonuses (per skill level):
5% reduction in Tractor Beam duration
60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity
5% reduction in Salvager duration


Notice anything regarding salvagers? Unless he had trained ORE Industrial to 5, you had him beat for bonuses to salvagers. The greatest benefit to using a Noctis over any of the t1 exploration frigates is in the sheer number of salvagers you can fit. The fact that you were able to out salvage him means he needs to learn how to properly fly that Noctis, not that there's something wrong with the Noctis.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#11 - 2016-05-26 02:18:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

• A 25-50% increase in base cargo capacity
• Allowing it to fit and use a Medium Micro Jump Drive (and ideally, an additional medium slot to accommodate it)
• 25% increase in base targeting range
• 100% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity (up from 60%)

Cargo Capacity, ok yer whatever
MMJD, ok, sure whatever, Extra slot, maybe, BUT NO EXTRA CPU/PG Twisted gotta put a line in the sand somewhere :P
Targeting Range, ok Whatever
Tractor Range and Velocity, only if the Targeting Range is done.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#12 - 2016-05-26 03:02:48 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:
Cargo Capacity, ok yer whatever
MMJD, ok, sure whatever, Extra slot, maybe, BUT NO EXTRA CPU/PG Twisted gotta put a line in the sand somewhere :P
Targeting Range, ok Whatever
Tractor Range and Velocity, only if the Targeting Range is done.

There's nothing extraordinary here, really - just a few minor tweaks to bring it in-line with the MTUs. With respect to cargo capacity, individual MTUs have 27000 m3 which is more than a little absurd.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#13 - 2016-05-26 03:43:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

• A 25-50% increase in base cargo capacity
• Allowing it to fit and use a Medium Micro Jump Drive (and ideally, an additional medium slot to accommodate it)
• 25% increase in base targeting range
• 100% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity (up from 60%)

Overall, I like the idea of a Noctis buff:
- A round 2k of cargo space - sometimes you can't dock to dump when on a roll and stations are multiple jumps away.
- A MMJD would be handy. Adding an extra slot would not be wise.
- Targeting range increase would be nice to have along with an increase to the tractor beam range.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#14 - 2016-05-26 11:05:33 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Caldari 5 wrote:
Cargo Capacity, ok yer whatever
MMJD, ok, sure whatever, Extra slot, maybe, BUT NO EXTRA CPU/PG Twisted gotta put a line in the sand somewhere :P
Targeting Range, ok Whatever
Tractor Range and Velocity, only if the Targeting Range is done.

There's nothing extraordinary here, really - just a few minor tweaks to bring it in-line with the MTUs. With respect to cargo capacity, individual MTUs have 27000 m3 which is more than a little absurd.

MTU aren't just used for missions. They're also parked next to trade hubs so gankers can tractor wrecks they pop, which have just a little more than a mission site. That, and ore jetcans in belts-you can put almost 4 full covetors in one of those.

A signature :o
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2016-05-26 17:37:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
MTU aren't just used for missions. They're also parked next to trade hubs so gankers can tractor wrecks they pop, which have just a little more than a mission site. That, and ore jetcans in belts-you can put almost 4 full covetors in one of those.

Yes, I do realize that MTUs are the ganker's medium of choice... It's hard not tripping over them on the Jita 4-4 undock.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#16 - 2016-05-26 19:18:55 UTC
This is what i use in null:

[Noctis, salvager]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

50MN Microwarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II

Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium Salvage Tackle II
Medium Salvage Tackle II
Medium Cargohold Optimization II

Warrior II x5

I drop an MTU in my ratter, clear anom or plex, pick up Noctis, warp to MTU, Empty and scoop, and salvage all the wrecks without moving. I only have two tractors on there in case the MTU is still pulling when i get back to empty and i dont need the space for salvagers because literally spend all my time locking targets and turning salvagers on. I can clean up a haven in about 3 minutes after landing if the MTU pulled all the wrecks in. Space is perfectly adequate ( 3631 m3 on my fit) to do several null anoms or an entire plex from my experience. If for some rare and odd reason i need more room i eject some junk but i cant recall the last time ive had to do that.

It works fine for its purpose in my opinion.