Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You're doing it all wrong. Instead of 1 pve boat and 1 boosting boat - bring 2 nightmares and just pillage. Your second account is much better off bringing dps than sitting in a corner boosting. The train is easier also. You're allowing swapping 1 tank mod for 1 additional damage mod?? Swap out the whole boosty ship for a dps ship. Honestly dropping the booster and replacing it w/ a thorax will out dps any single additional damage mod. Stop listening to the min/max ninnies and go blow stuff up correctly - with dps!

You seem like one of those guys that needs to put away eft and go play the game. More damage is always good.


TL/DR: If the on grid boosting change invalidates your PVE boosting alt - you will quickly learn to thank CCP.

I've read your post and made a first answer to it.
Hunter/Killer thing is a part of the game, i agree.
But you can't forget that OffGrid Links removale will definitly affect smaller groups fighting bigger groups, cause bigger groups will more likely have on grid links.

And, nope, sorry, all size do not have a Command Ship.
Firgates do not, Cruisers do not. Battleships do not.

The most affected ship class will be Cruisers.
They can bring a Command Destroyer, but it will be less tanky, and hard to fit to get the exact same bonuses you can have with a today link.
They can bring T3Cruisers, but that's risking a lot of ISK on field compared to the doctrine you would fly in.
They can bring Command BC, but they got less agility, mobility, warp speed.

To sum up, this removal without the implementation of Command Ships for each and every type of ships will affect skirmishes and kiting doctrines.

As far as SP are concerned, i will repeat myself.
Just like any other changes CCP made over the years, they will reset players Leadership SP and put them in an unallocated pool.
And really, i doubt that you are using your perfect Scanning + Virtue alt exclusivly to probe down ennemy Links, be honest there.


Anyway, you can theorized all you can, this Off Grid Link removal is necessary for the game, making it less "un-catchable" or something won't change the fact that they will STILL be off-grid.

But the rebuild needs to be done carefully to minimize what you call the blob, or n+1, and what i've proposed is imo some of the solution CCP should concider.
Yours are just ways to keep the actual statement of off-grid links.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=478793&find=unread

i like how fast this guy decided to toss wow around.

putting buffs on grid /= wow

The sig bloom is a bad idea because people will just boost from stations/citadels and dock up as soon as you land on grid while "hunting" them.

As for PvE, boo ******* hoooo you might have to replace a pimp vindi in your HQ fleet for a command ship on grid or possibly just run a single web on that windicator of yours...

Boosters make eve even more of an N+1 game. The reality is that what it does is put an onerous burden on small gangs to HAVE to produce a booster because everyone else already is. Part of why these need to be nerfed isn't because OGB is OP, or because OGB is too easy to do, or other such nonsense. The reason why this has to happen is because OGB is ******* boring, and is the biggest N+1 thing in eve.

two 20 man gangs fight eachother one wins, why? Did they have better pilots? no. Better organization? no. Better doctrines? no. Its because one of the pilots has an extra $15/mo and a booster alt. n+1.

Not only do OGB have to go away, but broadly speaking, links applied to anyone ON grid ought to go away too. What i'd like to see in a nerfing of OGB is something like the following:

All Command ships have tight range 'Aura' boosts as high slot modules
All Command ships have long range 'Aura' boosts as high slot modules that have lower boosts than the tight range ones
All Command ships also have longer range directed links as targeted high slot modules (like a remote sebo except "Target ship gains 50% boost to scrambler range")
Links no longer automatically pass by virtue of being a 'designated booster' therefore removing the requirement for command ships to be in the CoC to boost.

new command ships should be introduced at the cruiser and frigate level to flesh out the progression of ships. Frigate and cruiser CS should be oriented towards 'fast moving' gangs of their appropriate size.

This diversity gives command ship pilots a LOT more flexibility as to what kind of boosting ship they will be, their defensive strategy, and how they will participate in combat.

Small gang with only a few critical ships? Fit long range targeted links for the extra punch you need to overwhelm that blob. Use a cruiser fit for speed and links. It will be fragile, but hard to catch. You still will have a small gang advantage

Big gang with a lot of ships of the same type that need the same boosts? Fit close range aura links that give the same bonus to everyone. Now your piloting skill comes into play, don't **** up and drop your boosts!

Need a mixture? Fit what you want, lets see what you come up with!

See how much more interesting that gets for a links pilot? Now its not some task so dull alts can do it, you now have to worry about where you're at, where the enemy is at, who should get boosts, who doesn't need them? wayyyyy more interesting.

lol, I never said putting buffs on grid = wow. Hold On lemme splain.



Forcing a booster to dockup... That Removes the enemy boosts doesn't it? Which Solves Enemy Fleet boosts.

And I'm not talking about PvE? Incursions have been prepared for On Grid Boosts, for about 4 years now. So that's not what this discussion is about.

I didn't forget to tell you anything, your description of 'WoW Boosts' are from Vanilla. Blizzard progressed past that in 10 years. Their current Buff build is based around - AoE Spells in raids that when cast leaves a Duration Buff of 1hour on everyone. CCP Suggested that we move to ongrid boosts, powered by an AoE Module, that when cycled leaves a Duration Buff of X time on fleet members. -I'm unsure how you fail to see that CCPs proposed boosts are exactly the same rehashed idea.




lol No they don't - but we'll get back to that. Firstly the Boosting tree has 2 options, Off Grid Boosts (Alt Option) and On grid Boosts (Main Option). Stop trying to play an Alts game like a main, of course it's going to be boring. You don't sit in a hauling ship being loaded with ore by miners and expect it to be entertaining - this is what an alt account is for: to help your main do a better job - not everything in eve needs to be a main job.

Hokay so... How Boosters are designed right now, don't really promote the blob. If the enemy has a 11 pilot fleet and a 12th man running boosts, you can even the field by running a 11 man fleet with also a 12th running boosts. Boosters, however, don't stop you from building your own blob, but they rarely promote it.

The Definition of N+1/Blob means a continuously repeating building number. If you bring 10 pilots to grid, the enemy brings 10 Pilots + 1. If the enemy Brings 11 Pilots to the grid, you bring 11 pilots + 1. Eventually forming the Blob. 256 man fleet, with a quite a bit of F1 Monkeys, a few utility and a handful of boosters. Now only 2 offgrid boosters are needed to boost an entire fleet since they are allowing us to boost everyone regardless of position.

Forcing boosts onto grid, means fleets will need to devote more ships to boosting. If the enemy has 20 command ships on grid boosting, I'm going to want 21. Letting fleets and commanders decide between off and on grid boosts is a better solution than forcing the decision to 'On Grid' with no other options. What there needs to be now is incentive to make that decision.

Lighting up an Off Grid Boosting Ship like a Pulsar, by blooming the sig provides that incentive. Fleets/Commanders are faced with 2 questions - Do I pull my boosters onto grid in different ships where my logi can save them, hopefully maintaining boosts the entire fight? or Do I keep feeding my off grid boosters to the sharks, hoping boosts will stay on long enough for me to get the upper hand with the few extra monkeys in fleet?

My suggestion puts boosts on grid by putting you onto the boosters grid. With a bit of tactics and people doing the right jobs, you can cease being lazy, "remove Off grid Boosts" yourself, and stop trying to get CCP to do it. My suggestion actually reduces effort into scoring those kills making it easier for Hunter/Kill groups to do their designed job in a fleet setting.

Force Recon is responsible for operating independently behind enemy lines performing unconventional special operations, in support of conventional warfare.

Easily translated to Eve - H/K is responsible for dealing with strategic and tactical targets so the main fleet can accomplish their goals.

RnK didn't ask CCP to put their Pipe Bomb Fleet in the middle of your blob. They figured out how to do it themselves and blew you up.

tl;dr CCPls stop wasting time trying to overhaul boosters when only a few tweaks are needed.

Thanks!
-Ara

So, you didn't get the message of my original post clearly. I went ahead and revised it for content and clarity, if you would go and reread it, you'll figure out why your comments are silly.

I explained how to add risk to OGBs, and what exactly about the changes make it sound and feel like 'wow'. (putting them 'on-grid' is not the main reason)

I do agree that flying Off-Grid Boosters should be risky business, putting them on the main grid only mildly increases risk (if it adds any at all) on top of reinforcing the blob.

Making them easier to find greatly increases risk, as now a fresh newbro char with basic skills and ship can find your OGB to help kill it. Instead of requiring 4 months of SP (Max scanning skills/ship/implants) + another few months of support skills. This doesn't reinforce the blob, as your H/K team has to literally be off grid to score their strategic/tactical kills... and in some cases it even breaks down the blob as your FC would designate a squad to warp off grid to kill a booster after it was found and caught.

Thanks!
-Ara

It's not like off grid booster are a copy of aura buffs right? It's like WoW except easier because there are no 100 yard range limit.

Having a "booster" no matter how you slice it will feel like WoW unless you are delusional and just want your option to work. Your "solution" of blooming the sig of the active booster only will still leave them off grid because you will keep your boost active longer with a hidden booster the opposing side has to scan than if he is on grid with a SIG so large a dread can insta-blap it without HAW...

There would still not be any real choice like there is now because the best option would be chosen like it is now. Running after a ship with the signature of a moon will take more time than alphaing the ship with the sig of a moon off the grid. People will either have boost with constant interruption while he warp every time someone try to catch him or have boost for 30 second while the other fleet just primary it. Guess which one would really happen...

I like your proposal, but I don't see CCP going down this road.

They aren't right now, they will be in the future if CCP goes with their change. Having a booster does feel like an MMO, not really specifically like 'wow'.

The option to hunt and kill boosters who are off-grid potentially turning the tides of entire PVP battles is really the only thing EVE about the situation. EVE even has full training queues dedicated to this activity, from scanner pilots all the way to Blops pilots. Skill Points that will be wasted during major fleet operations in the event CCP forces boosters on grid. (unless you're hiding a 256 man panther doctrine somewhere)



It wont, because of exponential growth. Please do look at the Google Sheets provided. I added a few tabs for people who don't want to bother doing their own research. Bloom Boosting Theorycraft - w/ additions!

If you weight most of the sig bloom onto the more traditionally used off-grid command processor modules. You can still field an on-grid command ship with minimally increased sig -> +55 w/o MWD and +197 with. Numbers that barely increase the 'insta-blap' risk from dreads. These values would then still translate to Moon-sized off-grid boosting which dramatically increases the risk to the Off-Grid Boosters without many adverse side effects to boosters still on grid.

You can even weight ALL of the bloom onto the Command Processors instead of the links, increasing the bloom risk to only Off-Grid Boosters, and adding none to On-Grid Pilots. (except for those ...people?... who use CoProcs on-grid)

Do take the time to fiddle with the First Page on the GoogleSheets, you can see how different weighted changes would affect any ship's sig; from command destroyers to t3s, even ships that don't exist in game!

Thanks...
-Ara