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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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ECM completely different

Author
Evelyn Tensions Bererund
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-05-13 15:57:55 UTC
i thought of this idea alot and this is what i came up with
when you are trying to use ecm on an enemy ship, you are basically using your ship's computer CPU to 'hack' into another ship's computer to try and disable the targeting computer of said ship. you can allocate more CPU of your own ship, by using more then 1 ECM module. all the while you are trying to hack the enemy targeting computer, it tries to outsmart the 'hacking attempts'. this making 'hacking' a two-way street. it also chance based as we all know.

so, here is my idea
think of it as a number lock, both from your end at the targeted ship.
when you use your ECM module, it spins through all the numberlocks until it finds the correct one and then moves to the next one. if it gets all the numbers correct the ECM 'hacks' the targetting computer of the targeted ship, while that computer resets and try to come up with a new number.

now suppose you want to implement this with a ship bonus, like the Griffin or Scorpion etc.
you could argue that these ships can cycle faster through all the possibilities to find the current code
or that these straight-up ignore false numbers (so instead of looking through 10 digits they only need to look through 9 or 8)
*same goed for overheating

now suppose you want to implement this with eccm (or remote eccm)
you could argue that the code you are looking for contains and extra digit, meaning that it is more difficult to hack the code

one of the things i like about this is the interface. it is easy to understand (so new/noob friendly). it is also entertaining as you could actually see that you are a near a succesfull hack or not. it is also not out of the realm of possibilites to take into account the current sensor strength ships have at the moment because instead of digits (0 through 9) you could also use letters or symbols. so sensor strength '30' could be 26 letters + 4 digits' or any other combination, or just symbols.

in my ideal setup, you could see the numbers rolling if you mouse-over your ecm module to get the feedback you are looking for or maybe a small optional pop-up window telling you how the hacking is going along.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-05-13 16:37:16 UTC
I think you fundamentally misunderstand jamming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_jamming_and_deception

Here.

You're not hacking a computer at all, you're spamming a sensor with so much **** it can't lock on.

Under your proposal, I'd have a one in several million chance of actually jamming anything. A 10 digit code, for instance, would have ten BILLION combinations.

How long are you proposing it should take for unbonused racial ECM to jam a cruiser, let's say?
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-05-13 16:45:28 UTC
And burst jammers?
Evelyn Tensions Bererund
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2016-05-13 21:31:00 UTC
like i said in my post
you can have 4 ten digit locks you can pick (for 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 10.000 possibilities)
but you can also have 5 and end up with 100k possibilties
or
you can use a number of letters/symbols instead

the gist of it is, you can add more or fewer locks to pick
and for bonuses you can state that it disregards 1 number or symbol instantenous so the computation gets easier

the modules timer can remain the same as they are now
the UI would be easy to understand and the randomness/RNG should be relatively easy to take into account: ship bonuses, racial bonuses, racial resistances

as far as meta jammers go, you could state that after each lock picked the time it (still) needs to pick the next number decreases meaning there is a slightly better chance to crack the code

to me the pro's are:
still a randomness factor
UI interface can be clear (noob friendly and understandable)
easy to adapt to different factors (remote eccm, ecm, sensor strength, ship bonuses)

how it all looks or is presented is the pitch. im talking about the groundwork and fundamentals
Evelyn Tensions Bererund
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-05-13 21:37:07 UTC
as far as interface
burst jammers could me made to look like (ever) spinning locks for the duration of the modules cycle time
the target computer is forced to do an override reset

as far as mechanics, it always finds the hack (assuming the ship is in range)
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#6 - 2016-05-14 00:09:21 UTC
Mindflash!

Instead of making another random number generator it just hit me - a white noise bubble coming from the ECM boat, which cannot be targeted due to too much interference from the white noise it creates.

So a jamming mod would create a white noise bubble around a ship which renders its sensors defunct until the effect wears of or the ECM boat had to leave.

Only untargeted weapons can be used to remove them (the ebil Falcons, Rooks, Griffins, Kitsunes or Blackbirds).

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2016-05-14 01:57:24 UTC
ECM Completely redundant

Roll
Evelyn Tensions Bererund
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-05-15 14:40:50 UTC
the way i propose has several feutures which in my view are better

it is easy understandable
it can provide feedback during the process
it can easily be altered by adding more symbols/numbers or removing them, or straight up ignoring numbers
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2016-05-15 18:39:20 UTC
It's so easily understandable that you never once explain how it will actually function, or differ from the current system from a gameplay perspective.

If my ECM Taranis tries to jam a drake with a multispec, how do my chances at doing so compare with the current system? Easier? Harder? 1/10,000,000,000?
Evelyn Tensions Bererund
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-05-15 21:52:29 UTC
it is still chance based as it is right now
it is still possible to 'hack' off racial jams

how difficult the hack will be is all relative
but i hope you understand that getting the feedback and the way the system works enables for more logic and understanding on how it works

if you have a gallente jammer and are jamming a gallente ship and you actually see that instead of x variables per lock it now has x-2 variables per lock, that the hack will be easier. same for when you try to hack an amarr ship using a gallente jammer, you could get feedback indicating that x+2 would make for a more difficult hack when compared to the one before. using a basic jammer should be the default base line as it most likely to land a succesfull hack (assuming same distances, same defenses etc.).
also, when you see thee feedback and actually notice that you are advancing to the next lock you can also get a sense of how succesfull the attempt will be. this could provide some interesting gameplay action as you would be able to report back that you are very near to actually jamming something
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2016-05-15 22:33:35 UTC
Evelyn Tensions Bererund wrote:
this could provide some interesting gameplay action as you would be able to report back that you are very near to actually jamming something



How? It's still 'are they jammed y/n'. There's no difference there. The feedback is utterly meaningless if it's all still RNG chance based.

What's the point in any of this if the system you are proposing is more or less exactly the same as the current one, from a front end perspective? Is the average user going to notice the slightest bit of diferance, other than some randomly scrolling numbers that aren't actually connected to anything in the RNG, chance based system you are proposing?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-05-15 22:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
the problem with ECM is not the game play and the current mechanics are very close to balanced (the ability to perma jam and lack of stacking being its only unbalanced points.

the problem with ECM is how it feels to use and be used on

this is why no matter how many people in or out of ccp come up with ideas to fix it none of them work changing how this E-war feels is no easy task
Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#13 - 2016-05-21 22:39:41 UTC
What if instead of preventing locks, a successful ECM application blocked all other targets other than the ship jamming you? That fits with how jamming actually works, and would allow ships to actually do something about thier situation, like they can with most other debilitating ewar.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#14 - 2016-05-22 22:59:29 UTC
I'd rather just see ECM balanced around the idea of shorter / more frequent Jam periods. But that might just lead to the same amount of jamming. Otherwise I think the mechanic is fine albeit frustrating at times. In many cases the reason people get jammed is because they do not fit anything to counter it.

FOF Missiles; Drones ; ECCM scripts. Backup Arrays.
Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-05-23 01:16:26 UTC
Nivo Green wrote:
What if instead of preventing locks, a successful ECM application blocked all other targets other than the ship jamming you? That fits with how jamming actually works, and would allow ships to actually do something about thier situation, like they can with most other debilitating ewar.

Wouldn't that make ECM boats pretty much useless? Any time 2 or 3 boats with long-range weapons got jammed by the same ship they could just lock on and blast it to pieces. You'd almost want your jams to FAIL because when you get off a jam you then become that person's only target.
Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#16 - 2016-05-24 08:16:55 UTC
Msgerbs wrote:
Nivo Green wrote:
What if instead of preventing locks, a successful ECM application blocked all other targets other than the ship jamming you? That fits with how jamming actually works, and would allow ships to actually do something about thier situation, like they can with most other debilitating ewar.

Wouldn't that make ECM boats pretty much useless? Any time 2 or 3 boats with long-range weapons got jammed by the same ship they could just lock on and blast it to pieces. You'd almost want your jams to FAIL because when you get off a jam you then become that person's only target.


You dont jam long range weapon boats.. you damp/tracking disrupt them. You jam logistics ships, or other ewar ships, or low range high dps ships. In all cases, ewar used in their designed optimal use case scenario are devastating and uncounterable by the target ship. All ewar's have use scenarios where they are pointless. This would make ecm have clear optimal use cases, and weak use cases. Currently ecm is THE ultimate offensive ewar, accomplishing the goals of all other ewar without clear cases where it might be 'useless'. See ec-300 hornets. Even changed as I stated, it would still overlap tracking disruption and damps heavily (and even being much stronger than both in most cases), but would have clear direct counters that dont involve RNG.