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EVE: Citadel expansion - General feedback

First post
Author
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#201 - 2016-05-09 20:37:50 UTC
This seems as good a place to mention this as any, given the changes to broker fees in this expansion. Presently the broker fee is charged if the order duration is non-immediate, whether or not the order can in fact be filled immediately (even if, in fact, the order price was autofilled by the game from market data).

This strikes me as an entirely unnecessary UI gotcha; I'd like to make the (blindingly obvious suggestion) that instead the broker fee should be charged if the order was not filled immediately (or on the proportion of the order that was not filled immediately), which would save us all a bit of needless clicking.

(Of course, it's always been like this - but it bites a lot harder now.)
Gohstii
Space Blasters
#202 - 2016-05-09 23:30:46 UTC
From a Marketeers and Market PvP'ers perspective, will we still be able to buy and sell items remotely if they are in a hostile/neutral Citadel instead of a station? If the Citadel owner is able to limit the market use to blues only with the Access list, then this will greatly hinder ones ability to kill or crash an enemies market. To me this could potentially kill off a very fun and interesting way of hurting the enemy in a time of war.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2016-05-11 07:58:50 UTC
citadel prices won't be as advertised and the term ballpark seems incorrectly used.
Unless you play baseball using both a stadium in boston and in NYC at the same time.
"But it was in in the second sadium :("
I'll wait 3 months to see what prices do.
Drammie Askold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2016-05-11 10:03:29 UTC
I'd like to give kudos to the art team for the details in the Astrahaus. The sounds of work in the hanger and the 'vehicle' lights changing from a point to a fan on the surface as they go round a corner show it to be a labour of love.

(Yes, I'm one of those boring sods who pan and zoom through the 3d models to see what's there.)

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."

Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
Empire of Arcadia
#205 - 2016-05-13 22:56:24 UTC
Citadel bug report: The base refinement value for compressed ice was marked at 50% in my citadel even though I've fitted a rig to bump that value up. I initially thought it was a bug with considering compressed ice as not valid for the full reprocessing bonus, but then I assumed control of the citadel to double-check that I didn't have an idiot moment where I would've forgotten to put the rig in. Sure enough, the rig is in place, and, on checking refinement value a second time, the bonuses were applied correctly on the second look.

I haven't attempted to reproduce this bug, but it happened after I'd logged in while docked to the citadel in question and made no other movements or changes aside from looking into reprocessing the compressed ice.

Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.

Numidio Chthonus
Ex Coelis
#206 - 2016-05-15 11:56:30 UTC
Decarthado Aurgnet wrote:
Citadel bug report: The base refinement value for compressed ice was marked at 50% in my citadel even though I've fitted a rig to bump that value up. I initially thought it was a bug with considering compressed ice as not valid for the full reprocessing bonus, but then I assumed control of the citadel to double-check that I didn't have an idiot moment where I would've forgotten to put the rig in. Sure enough, the rig is in place, and, on checking refinement value a second time, the bonuses were applied correctly on the second look.

I haven't attempted to reproduce this bug, but it happened after I'd logged in while docked to the citadel in question and made no other movements or changes aside from looking into reprocessing the compressed ice.


This bug happens to our citadel as well at *every* down time. It is starting to get annoying. Only by taking control of the citadel briefly do the rigs kick in.
Kblocks Biggums
Quantum Singularities
#207 - 2016-05-16 13:05:35 UTC
item hangar contents disappear. citadel gnomes
Tahrl Cabot
EVE University
Ivy League
#208 - 2016-05-17 18:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tahrl Cabot
First, the broker fees:
Increasing the fee from .5% to 2.5% is a 500% increase. A 500% increase in any other area of the game would break it. This is not incremental - this is HUGE. Profit margins on trading and hauling are slim - sometimes just 2% or 3% in highsec; those trades are now wiped out by fees. (*I'm not favoring highsec, but most stuff gets built and traded in highsec, before it moves to lowsec and nullsec, so this has a big impact on the economy as a whole.)

Your "solution" is to push people into citadels - which are currently indefensible:
Astrhus = A Straw House, that offers NO security.

Most die before they are even fit - imagine that statistic applying to any other $1B isk ship in the game?
A-straw-hus have been killed by destroyer fleets. I imagine all-frigate fleets and all-noob-ship fleets will be next.
A-straw-hus can easily be killed by less than a dozen ad hoc ships with no-logi
Even fully fit A-straw-hus can only kill destroyers, frigates and pods.
They can't be saved by warping off. (even a single frigate can help save a $1B freighter by webbing it so it can warp to safety - no such mechanic with a citadel).
They can't be repped (because that would make it not fun for attackers)
The defender assumes ALL the risk; the attackers risk nothing.

Given that they are stationary - they should have built in bastion mode. Keeping any fleet on grid with a citadel should require several well-tanked battlecruisers or larger and it should require logi support. Cruisers and below should be volleyed of the field.

Taking down a citadel should be a challenge, and it should pose a risk to the fleet involved. Even if you show up with a massive fleet, due to the DPS cap, you should know you will at least loose some ships before you can kill it.

As it stands, fleet comp is based solely on bringing more than 500dps and less than 5000dps, and the only reason to bring more than 500 is to avoid boredom.

Raise the minimum damage to 4999dps, so you actually have to bring a serious fleet. Keep the damage cap at 5000dps. Raise the citadel missile volley damage high enough to one-shot T1 cruisers and below (omni damage, so you can't stack resists). The challenge for the attacker should be keeping 5000dps on the field without losing so many ships as to make it "unprofitable" to kill a citadel.

I'm not saying make it a fair fight, but at least make it interesting. Make it require team work and coordination, and not just a lolz fleet: show up in whatever and watch the GIANT fireworks.

To be honest, due to the obvious lack of security, most will stay in NPC stations and the fee increase will just be passed on to the customer and cause inflation.

As it stands, you spend $2.24B isk and get nothing but a tears in return - CCP has created the best ganker scam ever!!!
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2016-05-19 03:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Tahrl Cabot, very well said and straight to the point. Good job.

Obviously as usual there's an immense lack of Dev response to these and various other issues currently plaguing Eve Online. And as usual the amount of players logging into the game keeps dropping month after month.

It was said in the past that Goons would kill Eve but the truth of the fact is that CCP is killing Eve.


DMC
Ix Method
Doomheim
#210 - 2016-05-19 08:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
The ideas previously thrown around about small-scale markets were cool. While I appreciate you might not want every Astrahus to be filling up the market screen with crap, a corp/alliance-only market module that can fit on smaller structures would be a huge boon to a variety of playstyles.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#211 - 2016-05-19 13:33:23 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Obviously as usual there's an immense lack of Dev response to these and various other issues currently plaguing Eve Online. And as usual the amount of players logging into the game keeps dropping month after month.


EVE Offline shows a spike in January 2016 and fairly consistent numbers after that, but let's not confuse the issue with facts.
Knitram Relik
Phoenix Rose LLC
#212 - 2016-05-19 23:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Knitram Relik
Don't know if this has been mentioned. Didn't feel like going thru 11 pages of posts.

A public citadel should be searchable via map, people & places, etc. I see a buy order in a Citadel but if I don't know where it is, I can't go there. I'd like to be able to right click and Set Destination like I can with a station.

Also the public services (market, types of refining, clone bay) that are offered and current tax rates should be easily displayed. That way I know what kind of refining percentage and Market Tax is offered. Maybe in a Show Info tab.

EDIT: Being able to activate a PLEX in a Citadel would be good too. It seems I need to haul it to an NPC station to use it now.

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it's really hard to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#213 - 2016-05-20 11:17:26 UTC
Knitram Relik wrote:
Don't know if this has been mentioned. Didn't feel like going thru 11 pages of posts.

A public citadel should be searchable via map, people & places, etc. I see a buy order in a Citadel but if I don't know where it is, I can't go there. I'd like to be able to right click and Set Destination like I can with a station.

Also the public services (market, types of refining, clone bay) that are offered and current tax rates should be easily displayed. That way I know what kind of refining percentage and Market Tax is offered. Maybe in a Show Info tab.

EDIT: Being able to activate a PLEX in a Citadel would be good too. It seems I need to haul it to an NPC station to use it now.

You mean, you would like Citadels to work as they have should at the time of release?

Sorry this is Eve, you'll be waiting a long time before Citadels are even close to replacing stations or in some cases, even a POS..

CCP has a pretty good track record of unfinished projects being added to TQ.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#214 - 2016-05-21 11:12:10 UTC
as for me I was total confused trying to understand new mechanics for access lists/ citadel profiles. It's nightmare to understand it correctly and tooltips are poor for explanations. Please and some guide or more explanation tooltips,

Also I was disappointed to find that there are no specific setup feature to grant tethering.
Only way to grant tethering you should grant dock access. It's bad from my point of view, because if you grant access to citadel for person and than find out that it's spy, bad guy, plustackler - it will be impossible to pull him out of citadel.
He will sit as lamp for example inside citadel endlessly, until you will dis-anchor citadel for new place, I suppose.

Proposal - please add possibility to grant only tethering to citadel profile set-up.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2016-05-21 11:20:50 UTC
So..... when I look outside our citadel, I see the correct celestials and stations.
But I do not see the ships on grid until I undock.

Feature or bug?
Emmy Mnemonic
Svea Rike
Northern Coalition.
#216 - 2016-05-21 11:28:19 UTC
My feedback on using Heavy Fighters and Fighters.

So, we have now tried the new interface for Heavy Fighters / Fighters /Support Fighters on carriers and supers.
Here is a list of my suggestions for improvement;

  • The concept of having a similair look-and-feel for the HF/F/SF weapons and other functions as you for ship modules is a good one. But please make them more distingushable from the locked targets!
  • When having selected a squad, this is indicated by a ring of blueish light around the fighter symbol. Does not work well with certain light backgrounds in EVE-Online. please change this to somethiong that can be more easily seen also with a "whtie background"! Not usable otherwise.
  • The "Q"-function where you can command your HF&F&SF squads toa point in space is nice, but should be possible to use without having to type on the key-board! HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) is a concept from fighter jets, and we fly much more advanced space ships. PLease implement contect-function or eq for this so I can fo back to playing EVE without a key-board!
  • The HF/F/SF icons look to much like the targets. It is not exactly "intuitive".
  • The icons of the HF/F/SF are waaay to big and take up to much space on the screen. Please reduce their size or make them sizeable by context-menu or eq.
  • Having to micro-manage the heavy weapons is not good game-play, and not exactly how you command squads....you tell them to fire, and they should keep firing until todl to cease fire! EVE has become a click-fest again, please add HF/F heavy wepons cycle-functionality.
  • Aiming function for AOE-weapons on supers. I have tried this quite a lot, it seems that when trying to select a range, or in the second step an angle, if there is a ship or anything else "behind" you loos the focus of the function, and have to start over again! Would it not be possible to either ignore objects in the background/foreground while aiming is active, OR to fire the AOE weapons towards an object (as the centre of the effect)? Anyway, this aiming-functionality should be iterated on to make it more intuitive and usable.
  • Aiming bombs on the heavy fighters is cancer! I have tried and tried and tried, but for me it seems totally impossible to get those bombs deployed in the direction I want...also, this type of micro-management of a weapon-system of a squad of heavy fighters is...not really fun gameplay. The only "fun" part will be when people start bombing randomly...please change this into something more usable. I want to tell my HF where the target is, and then make them attack the target, I do not want to micro-manage the HF weapon systems!


Apart from the above feedback, I think that in general the changes has been for the better of the game-play, the new fittings, changes, new weapons etc etc are awesome, and promptly made me sell one of my supers because now it will be impossible to dual-box, and also I now want a Titan with those new cool doomsdays!

Nice work CCP!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2016-05-21 21:37:54 UTC
Areen Sassel wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Obviously as usual there's an immense lack of Dev response to these and various other issues currently plaguing Eve Online. And as usual the amount of players logging into the game keeps dropping month after month.


EVE Offline shows a spike in January 2016 and fairly consistent numbers after that, but let's not confuse the issue with facts.

Sorry, doesn't matter what it says for Jan 2016, try looking at the big picture as in the past few years or so. You'll see there's a definite reduction of players logging into the game each month..

Right now I see for the weekend only 36k on average logged into the game. I remember seeing close to double that amount 6 to 8 years ago.


DMC
marly cortez
Mercurialis Inc.
The Bastion
#218 - 2016-05-22 00:06:46 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Obviously as usual there's an immense lack of Dev response to these and various other issues currently plaguing Eve Online. And as usual the amount of players logging into the game keeps dropping month after month.


EVE Offline shows a spike in January 2016 and fairly consistent numbers after that, but let's not confuse the issue with facts.

Sorry, doesn't matter what it says for Jan 2016, try looking at the big picture as in the past few years or so. You'll see there's a definite reduction of players logging into the game each month..

Right now I see for the weekend only 36k on average logged into the game. I remember seeing close to double that amount 6 to 8 years ago.


DMC


Been a long standing discussion for members, Taking it back to the point were CCP took away the multiple Jump Bridge option so hiving off groups of players from the main the impact of that single issue caused eventually fatal damage to the community as players found that they did not need to have instant travel routes back to home systems, in fact they need not move about at all via gates so simply stayed in there preferred systems, CCP's indication that this change would cause more interaction in fact resulted in less but it is the coincidental damage to the community that was the real issue.

Since that time CCP has introduced a plethora of changes to the game under a similar vein but each has resulted in less player content satisfaction and in the end less players logging in, The ISBOXER debacle had the result of major losses to the player base as miners un-subbed multiple now useless accounts often followed by there main account as there personal content provision evaporated and they found no real need to play Eve at all.

The issue of Fatigue also brought about a loss pf players as the extended travel times ate into there overall ability too play the game and achieve any meaningful content other than the loss of there ships when they logged back in again, Capital nerfs on the face of it applauded by many left those owning them slowly realizing they were of less and less value in terms of content provision, from my own corps records I find that large numbers of players have simply left the game stating this as the major factor.

Overall CCP seems oblivious of this situation as it has developed focused as they are on long term goals which to many look more and more like they are turning Eve into some sort of giant FPS with the ethos that everything MUST be blown up and nothing else matters negating the games original ethos of building and growing your character by way of acquisition.

The recent fanfest statement by the so called 'Brain Guru' was most telling though when he announced so many people had 'Tried' Eve but failed to stay the course and remain in the game, Not sure I would want to stand there an announce to the world your game was an utter failure on an epic level but do it he did, at least he managed a smile over the announcement that he was looking into how this might be turned around, maybe a look back to five or six years ago and the situation in game then that caused so many to actually play Eve for so long.

In the end it's CCP's product, they can destroy it if they feel the need, which obviously from the numbers they seem to want to do hell bent as they are on ripping up Eve lore in favor of some new as yet secret agenda, maybe they see it as working in the end but probably not, Eve worked because of what it was, not what it has become.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#219 - 2016-05-22 04:44:53 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:
EVE Offline shows a spike in January 2016 and fairly consistent numbers after that, but let's not confuse the issue with facts.

Sorry, doesn't matter what it says for Jan 2016, try looking at the big picture as in the past few years or so. You'll see there's a definite reduction of players logging into the game each month.


A reduction which seems to have been stopped in the last six months, so clearly what the devs are doing now is responsible for something that isn't happening anymore because, er, reasons?
Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#220 - 2016-05-22 10:54:48 UTC
Having a POS - you can any time decide who can be inside force field. you can change password or close for alliance and corp members, so everyone except people who you want will be outside POS shields. With citadels - once you give permission to person for dock and he docked, you will have only one way to take him out of it - or he will undock by himself or you need to dis-anchor citadel.

That's for me a huge issue with citadels. Owning a fortizar - 33bil citadel, you can't get out from it people whom you don't want to see in dock.

IF CCP wants to remove POSes from game, they should find a away to resolve that.