EVE General Discussion

It seems to me like the main problem is that you keep attempting to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

The idea of smaller-corporations in an alliance, it has appeal. It's something, I've certainly thought about it. Particularly with Medium Citadels being so fragile, having all alliance of the people that use the Citadel to help ramp up some defence, even if it can't win against a serious force, at least puts up some opposition and a display of community.

Unless I am missing something, Hub Zero, 'today' sounds like a colony (less than a hub). With a lot of investment to be made to seed the markets, T1 products are low-end; to be in null without supply lines for at least T2 ammo sounds like an 'iffy' proposition. There's really no attractors.

I have no interest for the CODE and their novel interpretation of 'content creation', but what they have done extremely well, is created an 'ideology', that is larger than any single corporation; although it appeals to a low-form of PVP (the 'gank') which has a low-barrier to entry (being willing to suicide and lose a throwaway ship). CODE is also an economic proposition, the spoils from killing freighters generated a significant revenue.

The hub as an ideological concept, needs also a viable economic proposition; as a colony this is very difficult. Why start with the territorial seating, why not start with the community first, smaller corporations working together - let them establish reputations before pushing to the ambitious full-scale project. Kind of like how 'AG' became an interesting community with 'Ozzie' driving the call to arms.

I'm sure there are more players, like you, I'm one of them - I couldn't care for the cult of personalities, or that so many corporations aspire to being 'Elite', ambition and achievement are wholly different. The conditional nature of so many corporations, the excessively strict doctrines for the appearance of being l33tSpac3Z0rP1RatZ.

Interesting idea. But upping and moving 50+ jumps to Stain, without an infrastructure, without a defined community or even a proof-of-concept. Too far a haul for my tastes, but on the other hand, an alliance of smaller corporations that can grow organically, that sounds interesting.

Thanks Aaron for the clarification. The barrier may be psychological more than practical, I operate out of a 0.5 backwater that's a short trip in a fast-align blockade runner back to a hub. The reality of it is, that there is no local to speak, there's no one in the belts but it's not as profitable as it would be in null. The trade hub I use is habit rather than commitment.

I'll give this some thought, I can use Jump Drives (BLOPS) and probably aren't far off jump freighters. It's easy enough to stage out of an Orca.

From my view, an alliance of 'smaller corps' could be more like a network than an empire holding sovereignty or an alliance moving as a strategic whole; almost a 'chamber of commerce and defense' perhaps. In a smaller alliance of corps, increase trade between the alliance members, calls for help for M Citadels put across the alliance channel. I'd be more than willing to fight alongside someone's smaller corp citadel, for whatever difference that it may or may not make.

No one bothers to hell camp npc null unless they are incredibly bored. And as soon as they stop camping then the residents just return. Also Stain is huge, so good luck camping that.

I can confirm logistics into Stain isn't a massive problem if you are careful and use DSTs through wormholes. And as the saying goes, don't fly what you cant afford to lose, as you'll likely lose one eventually from cloaked wormholers.

I'm not a part of this attempt myself as I prefer to be a part of something more organised, although it looks as though joining hub-zero would be good if you are a solo or small corp just looking for a group of blues to co-exist peacefully with.

My advice would be not to set your sights to high as you will need more organisation than a blue community is capable of for that; this is when hub-zero stops being hub-zero and turns into something which requires a corp/alliance type structure with set doctrines and FCs. This was the issue with the last hub-zero attempt from my recollection.

Judging from previous attempts I'd say Aaron has the approach about right this time.

Also who is this group of elite pvpers you speak of? Not the ones from 9o- is it? Because we just killed over 4billion of ships of theirs the other day. *chuckles*

Hi Moac,

I think the level of organisation depends on the actual people involved not the policy. I think Exaido is correct regarding the psychological barrier. If you are reluctant to try my methods because you're not in my corp or alliance then that is an issue with how YOU perceive the game I do not think it is an issue with corp/alliance verses blue community.

I would have thought a group of blue pilots can get to a reasonably high level of organisation if they are keen and their belief in the cause is strong and they get on well with the people in the community.

FYI, Hub Zero will always be Hub Zero, It is simply a platform for building a market hub and blue community which I believe will appeal to some players.

Moac, you have a small corp and alliance, according to zkill you seem to be blue to 3 or 4 other small corps and alliances because you regularly pvp with them. Can you explain why the blue community you are in is more organised? You realise that your alliance is small so you've become friendly with some of the locals in order to survive. Tell me, do you have set doctrines and a single FC within your blue community?

You seem to dislike the ideals of Hub Zero, but you have almost exactly replicated Hub Zero in a different part of Stain, please correct me if I am wrong.

I've got nothing against the ideals of hub-zero, and after reading through the thread it looked like you were on the right track in relation to taking a more relaxed approach (I wished you good luck with the endeavour).

In relation to my current situation, to be honest I went away for a couple of months, when I came back one of my corp members had set a load of the Stain residents blue. (generally I don't like to set anyone blue as it encourages people to actually join up to your corp/alliance if they want to fleet or to not be attacked, plus it decreases the number of targets)

There are plenty of targets where I am currently and so I figured I'd keep them blue, and we've been able to field some larger fleets which has been fun. Quite a few of the Russians seem to be happy to join my fleets, and I like their attitude as they are willing to commit expensive stuff to the fight in order to make ships blow up. And I've never once had any of them complain about losing a ship in a fight and we've lost some expensive stuff, but killed a lot more.

The issue with this though is the fleets are not optimised, with most of the fleets being flown kitchen sink. Whilst being fun, If we came up against a determined opponent we'd struggle. So in my experience getting loose blue network properly organised to a corp/alliance level would be an uphill task. I wouldn't even try it as your going to be trying to get independent players to toe the line which is going to cause issues. (they are joining hub-zero because they don't want to be told what to do I assume).

I have even tried giving anyone who joins my fleets a doctrine ship out of my own funds, and even then when I check back on kill mails someone had modified the fit or still bought a drake. *chuckles* That's all part of the fun of a loose blue network though.

I plan on heading to a different area of Stain at some point and starting from scratch, as although it has been fun working with some of the residents, I do prefer to fly with set doctrines with a tight knit group of pilots because that's just what I enjoy. But your right, at the moment it is akin to hub-zero, and nothing wrong with that either as it is a lot of fun as I think I mentioned in my post above.

Whether your going for a blue network, or a corp/alliance structure, I think the most difficult thing is actually getting a group of people who are dedicated to Stain and won't disband once things get tough. If you can manage that then you'll have a lot of fun and be successful at whatever type of structure you choose.

There's more to this than just pvp, there is lots of money to be earned. Part of Hub Zero involves a group of people setting buy orders for the good loot stain can provide and another group supplying it, It will then be taken to a bigger Hub such as Jita and sold for profit. I hope you can see that it is also about creating a network for isk to be earned.

Any updates?

Hi,

I realise this won't happen quickly and I know I have much work to do in gaining the trust and respect of a few pilots to start off with. I've joined my current corp because I wanted to help the CEO achieve his goals as he is committed to Stain, I wanted to make more friends and promote the Hub Zero Ideal and see if I can get the CEO aim his corp at providing protection for Hub Zero which will promote more pvp opportunities.

I think we have to adapt to the limited amount of players within the game at the moment and see that blues are still a great asset if they can help out with the maintenance and security of an NPC 0.0 const.

So, you will need the patience of Job on this one.

I haven't been able to get on as much recently due to internet problems which are now sorted.