Warfare & Tactics

Very intelligent counter-petition imo...

Anyway, I don't whine, I simply say that, if pvp is core in this game, and the games shines for pvp, in my opinion pvp experience for a novice in FW is so hard that most of them will simply get too frustrated/bored/killed to keep playing it.

Not to say the many other exploitations that I am seeing, like enemy faction players in hisec keeping going in and out of station ganking novice players repeatedly with ultra expensive ship and almost invulnerable because they can dock in seconds....

but it's another thing....

I agree 100% that CCP is not making much effort to help newbros learn pvp. The whole New Player Experience is 100% PVE-focused and it's a shame.

They did make the test server easily accessible from the new launcher, though. Just find a fellow newbro, hop on SiSi, and practice as much as you want. All ships & modules are available and everything costs 100 ISK.

Even vets often go to SiSi to practice, especially with capital ships as it's not nice to lose several just to practice and test things.

It is ignorant when the person you're answering to wants to do solo pvp. Joining a corp requires a massive investment of time and energy, you have to find a corp where you fit in and where you get along with its members, you have to pack up your stuff and move to a new region, you have to sit around chat and wait for people to show up and be ready to fleet up. That's a couple of days, a week, of time investment, and to someone who's just trying out the game and want to pvp it isn't a good solution. Joining a corp is not the answer to every problem that newbies stumble upon, and forcing new players to join a corp is a sure way to get many of them to leave.



That is good advice. It requires a few friends tho, but it seems like a good way to practice pvp.

Hello Lan Wang,

One of the biggest problems is, how you already wrote, that solo pvp is the hardest.

But at the same time it's realistic to imagine new players have no experience/time/knowledge to join a good ( and I underline the word good) corp at the beginning ot the game.

So many ( the most I think) begin with mining to gain some money and they leave quickly...and if they try FW pvp they are immediately killed by pirates all time.

They go to lowsec (that's already a very dangerous place by itself) and they are killed at stations by gankers using FW as a permanent wardec to kill everyone docking/undocking bases, they are gatecamped, they are killed in lowsec space and if they are so lucky to enter a novice plex, hoping they can finally try some decent pvp, a faction or pirate ship arrives minutes later killing them at once and forcing them to go back, buy and fit a new ship, and repeat the carnage again and again.

I would say at least to enter a "real" novice in a difficult area and know they will complete it with or without a fair fight with a t1 basic frigate would be a very good incentive to keep playing this game.

What you did can be considered good, but you definitely belong to a minority of players if you were so patient ( and had enough money ) to have 150 frigates destroyed.

This post is mainly to make developers understand that if they really want new players to have a real chance to experience Eve online pvp, they need to make it doable...not easy, because a t1 vs. t1 fight with a veteran wouldn't be easy at all for a newbie, but at least doable.

How it is now, it's not doable at all, it's mainly very very frustrating.

*sigh* Again with the same argument.
Just because everyone has gone through a frustrating experience does not make that experience well designed.

How is it "stubborn" to want a venue for pvp where new players actually have a shot at winning? a fight where money does not automatically win? a fight where new players will have a chance to hone their skills and experience the thrill of pvp?

I'm actually finding it really hard to understand you lot of people who will call people "whiny" or "stubborn", when all they want is something fun to do that doesn't require a tonne of ISK and doesn't require being part of a large corporation. It would be a major reason for new players to stick around, to continue playing and to continue funding this game. Making the game more noob friendly would only benefit you veterans, and yet most of you react with resentment when we explain what we would want and what would make us continue playing. What we're asking for wouldn't even effect any part of your game play, so I'm confused why you're making such a big deal out of it. It isn't asking too much to want to practice pvp in an environment that is more "fair".

That's still 10x more than I spend on my ships, but I'll agree it's still within reasonable limits.
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However, the succubus that 2shotted me in less than 5 seconds did not do so from excellently mastering the click of one button. He completely wiped me out because his ship and gear was so ridiculously expensive and good that there was no chance for me to defend myself.

This thread seems to swing back and forth between constructive and not so constructive.

I am unsure that new plexes are really the way to go. How far do you take it? Only T1 not even navy, do you ban faction mods, what about implants and links, it would be hard to take these things out of the equation. Even removing pirate frigs some will look for an edge and will pay to do so. That said some pirate frigs need adjusting slightly.

What do you want from faction warfare? It sounds like you want good cheap solo fights and it is important to realise a lot of other people want the same. The linked pirate menace is normally rare and ultimately avoidable. However there is an element of risk and reward. As stated there are fits that can beat them, but they are still hard fights that require the correct decisions. However the reward for winning, the prestige is greater and they may even drop something shiny.

Currently you should certainly be able to fund 10mil fit frigs and navy versions from LP. What you really want is more people out plexing in combat fit ships and for the risk reward level to be a better match for those like you doing it properly so to speak and being willing to fight. Fights and ultimately wins for you will come with time and practice.

There are many ideas that have been proposed that would help alleviate stabbed farming, increase rewards for fighting and punish running away to a more balanced extent.

If I had a handful of changes I could make them I am afraid this would be further down the list than most.

The first real challenge is getting enough support to convince ccp to change some things and given the current csm I'm am not sure that pressure is coming through the normal player channels.

I was rushed for time posting that response, so the last part, if taken literally does seem like 'We had to do it, so you should as well'. The point I was trying to finish on is there have been a lot of positive advice given to the OP on how he can improve his experience. From what I have read, and I haven't read 100% of each post in detail, he has rejected most of the advice given to him and has clung to his original call for the developers to do more. Which they have done.

A huge part of this game is learning situational awareness. If I'm flying an Atron and there is a Worm outside my plex, I probably shouldn't take the fight. I don't need a new level of plex to help me. I need to help myself. If there were plexes where only T1 frigs could enter, no Faction, new players would still get owned by players with more experience at pvp.

I know you might be tired of hearing it but as far as having the resources to fund pvp and get better at it goes, joining a corporation is the best advice, and it doesn't have to be a large corporation. Corporations that advertise themselves as newbro friendly usually have a system in place to at least subsidize the cost of ships and mods, if not hand out free ships. And they might even have training ops or at least are willing to give advice on how to get better.

Most people who talk smack have the killboard to back it up.

Then again, most new players look up at 'the vets' and aspire to maybe one day get some nice kills of your own. But you look down at them? Peculiar. Must be a special snowflake.

I shall tell you why I'm not in a complex: it's an arranged fight- whoever is in there already has the advantage; he could be sitting at the beacon with dual web/scram primed, or he could be 28km off ready to kite the living bejeezus out of you. I like to dictate my own fights.

PvP does not have to happen inside FW complexes at all -- you can find it anywhere. I can understand you're not happy with the FW zone; then maybe go elsewhere?

As for the reason I don't fly T1 frigs very often ... I like my Daredevil better. Or did you expect we'd all park our rides for Your benefit? See, PvP is more than just "unleaching your guns". It's also about picking engagements. About preparation. About setting the stage, stacking the deck. Pretending to be weak in that which is actually your strongpoint. If it were just a DPS vs. Tank simulator I wouldn't be here.

Most ships aren't even "better" - they're just different. EvE is a long playing game. Don't be too eager - you'll burn out. Embrace every new module, every new ship you 'unlock'. Learn to pilot it wisely. Then, start talking smack.

"What I think is that 98% of veterans would not go inside them" ? You bet they will. And they'll wipe the floor with you - because Your frig will deal 64 DPS with 1800 hitpoints and theirs will deal 126 DPS with a 3400 buffer AND an active tank that doesn't quit. At this point in your career, you could go for targets of opportunity that underestimate your (alleged) skill, or you could go out and have fun with friends in equally ramshackle frigates and somehow get the job done.