Ships & Modules

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Don't we all... The missile formula is like this: You start @100% damage and go down from there...

The people were complaining that drones can do wrecking shots too and "alpha" their first line of defense to their surprise.

Surprise or not they were costing themselves time and lost their ship.


And here is how I separate very fast cycling guns from long cycling, high damage guns - by time.

Back to my Phantasm, and now it gets difficult, two of the same fitted Phantasms with 2x heatsink II and 2x tracking enhancer II and a damage control between them in the lows, will do very different damage in a time frame of let's say 4 minutes.

For that example, imagine an Abbadon as "victim" and you get 4 minutes to do your worst given the two different turrets, 3x heavy pulse laser II and 3x heavy beam laser II.
You are not limited on what crystals to use or at what range you start hammering the "victim", the only rule is that you may not change the low slots and you have 4 minutes to do your worst.

It may surprise you that the beam laser fit will come out ahead and both ship were doing exactly 580dps (not on client right now but 580 is what I remember), the pulse fit with conflag and the beam fit with gleam (in both cases, no turret enhancement implants were used).

The pulse fit even gets a bonus time of close to two minutes at 640dps with heat.

How is that possible and the answer is simple - time.

The pulse laser fit can only decrease the cycle time of the guns by using heat sinks but the pulse laser fit will change the cycle time with heat, putting the cycle time of the beam lasers below 3 seconds (or exactly 3 seconds for the server), while the pulse lasers increase the damage output of the turret by 15%.

That may only be the case for laser turrets but not all turrets have to be equal.

No it is not.



I can make a Barghest apply ~80% cruise missile damage to a linked machariel, which will have a really bad day then but let me get this straightened.

If that Raven Navy Issue can do ~7000hp em, thermal, explosive or kinetic damage at once for example, the following will happen, when you shoot at a carrier.

Let this Raven shoot nova fury cruise missiles. When you group all 8 launchers, it will show you a group missile damage of ~7000hp explosive damage.

Your current target is an Archon and you fire your first shot and nothing happens and the launchers are cycling and bam, you can see your text box showing you a hit of ~3500hp damage.
You now think, that this is not enough and load mjolnir fury ones. Shoot, wait and there you go you get a damage hit of 5745hp damage.
Should that latter not have been ~7000hp? What happened there?

The Archon started moving and has a 100000000mn afterbuner on and while that Archon has a signature radius of ~ Long Island, she accelerated to ~120m/s.

drone damage can also be increased by tracking modules and rigs.
i find drone tracking modules much more useful than amplifiers since drones also shoot when they approach the target, where you can get more critical hits or alpha from drone falloff (especially heavy drones like berserks and prorators).

also long range guns benefit a lot from reduced cycle time (more than short range guns)

They do but they are stupid and out of range for a while.



That is reason I came up with the post in the first place

And now to fix everything wrong with your initial guide.


They actually do roughly 40% of the estimated damage, because the higher quality shots are no longer on the damage table.


This number should actually be about 6%, most importantly including that wrecking shots can still happen


Due to the damage formula dropping the heavier hits, after a certain point in falloff you lose the "smashing" shots, and other high quality hits. Your guide fails to mention that all of these high quality, named shots occur in optimal too, at a higher frequency no less, and instead implies that you'll be doing more damage in falloff through these "super secret tricky" shots.


They could do up to 30000hp damage in optimal as well. In fact, they can do that 1% of the time as long as they are still able to hit. This again is falsely implying that you should expect more damage to happen when firing in falloff range, which is simply untrue.


This is such a bad description of missiles I don't even know where to begin. Missiles are nothing like semi-autonomous mini ships that continuously apply damage until they are destroyed. And I have no clue at all you are referring to when you talk about the names.

Missiles are an ammo just like turrets have ammo, but with different mechanics for how they hit.
Turrets hit instantly while missiles take travel time.
Turrets range is determined by their optimal where within that number they have no penalty, and then falloff which describes how quickly the range penalty grows. Missiles have their range determined by a travel speed and time, and they either hit within that range or explode mid-air doing nothing, no room for "kind of in range" shots.
Turrets have tracking speed (accuracy score) that is a compared against a composite of the target ship's angular velocity and signature radius. Missiles have an explosion velocity that is compared against the target ship's absolute velocity, and an explosion radius that is compared against the target ship's signature radius. An important distinction is the angular velocity for turret's damage is depending on your own ship as well, while missile's damage only care about the velocity of the target ship.
Turrets without any range/tracking penalties will apply between 50% and 150% of their damage with an even distribution, and a small (1%) chance for doing 300% normal damage. Missiles have no inherent variance to their damage, and given the same parameters will always output the same damage number.

Too many quotes, but we will continue.

"The difference being that no missile in EVE can or will ever do 100% damage. More about sad things later."
This has already been discussed by other members in this thread.

"Back to the fitting screen all the fitting screen does is this calculation: 10000(hp) : 200(seconds cycle time) = 500(dps)."
Basic maths. 10000/200=50. Additionally, the 200 cycle time is such an outrageous and unrealistic number that it accomplishes nothing practical other than a demonstration of how dps (which stands for damage per second, which means damage divided by seconds) means damage divided by seconds.

"dps or damage per seconds is a value that your fitting screen shows, nothing more, nothing less. And while it is safe to assume that higher is better, EVE doesn't follow."
Except all else being equal, higher is better. If a person has played enough of any video game to find themself in this forum, they should already have the knowledge that there are always other factors that affect how you apply your damage.

"For everyone who doesn't fit 8 heatsinks on an Apocalypse and 2 shield extenders for whatever reasons(tm), the expactations on battleship damage are high, the result rather "low"."
8 heatsinks... if this meant to be a guide for newer players who don't understand the damage formula, then at least have some basic understanding of the stacking penalties.

"Or in better words, if grouped together, those 8x mega beam lasers with yellow crystals can do up to 2700hp damage in optimal range or up to 8100hp damage in falloff - ouch."
Those 8x mega beam lasers will do up to 8100hp damage in optimal as well as falloff. The difference is that aside from that 1% chance per gun (so .01^8 that all 8 will do that a wrecking shot at once), the gun firing in it's optimal will have on average higher accuracy and higher quality shots than the one firing in falloff. Don't try to mislead newer players into thinking that falloff gives higher damage than optimal.

"This looks a bit more battleship like."
For anyone who understands basic math, this looks just as battleship-like as any other way you phrased those numbers.

"Hold on, here's another thing, medium pulse lasers do exactly 50% damage per hit that medium beam lasers would, just in half the time, resulting in a higher dps value but not more damage."
So wrong, so, next post

Fighter Support Units increase rate of fire. I do recall something at the time DDAs were released about not being able to increase drone RoF, but apparently that has been overcome. Either that or fighters are modeled entirely differently (which could easily be the case).

you are completly wrong, drone scoop chip and drone enhancer very-very useful even w/o DDA. Application and projection of drone damage is very important. This is allow you to strike with hammer (heavy's) with great precision.
From my observation it looks like drones have some abilities of missile system. More tracking = more damage, also looks like flying dones benefit from range (heavy hits from 30-40km; medium from 20km).

They do but I wasn't talking about capital ships. Network sensor arrays make carriers and mothership insta-lock frigates but they have nothing to do with turrets.