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High Sec Pos Takedown
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-01-13 03:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jas Dor
What makes a POS in high sec worth deccing the owning corp and attacking? What tactics are used to hit the POS? What is the bar to making something to hard to be worth it?

Oh and on a only somewhat related question, will a warp scram battery kill a ships MWD?
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#2 - 2012-01-13 05:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Emma Royd
Either:

  • You want that moon
  • You want to eliminate that competition
  • They've annoyed you
  • You're just that way out Twisted


Slow way would be lasers, depends on if the corp you're deccing is active, and how many players. If they're inactive, dec them and send a few cheapish laser BS over, fire and forget, no worrying about ammo generally.
Apart from that, go for max dps, stuff like torp ravens (if you can get in range), cheapish and plentiful.

Depending on how the pos is set up, if it's a large dickstar with loads of ecm, hardeners etc, that would be an annoyance, but hey if you've got the patience to sit at a pos shoot, then just start shooting the annoyances first.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3 - 2012-01-13 23:49:11 UTC
For a POS with no Defenses, Laser Dominix is the way to go. If it's offline you even get to use Pulse Lasers, Multifreq ammo, and Heavy drones.


Another reason could be shiny POS mods hanging on the POS. If you shoot the POS out, you can scoop the expensive mods and blow up the cheap ones(hoping for a drop).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#4 - 2012-01-14 11:15:33 UTC
People will dec you to hit your POS if they want the moon, or they think they can get good loot from it (because you have labs without an office in system, for example).

People who dec you for other reasons may shoot your POS as a way to force you to fight or take a loss.

POS defense in highsec is a bit like the old saying about running away from a bear. You don't have to outrun the bear, just have to outrun the guy next to you.

So just make your POS as annoying as possible to shoot at. Hardeners for good resists (especially EM/therm for afk laser boats). As much ECM as will fit, so they have to keep locking the tower. At least one warp scram and if possible web, so once they warp to the tower they are stuck there. And a token gun or two to force them to fit a tank.

None of that will stop someone who really wants to hurt you. But it will make casual attackers say "screw this, I'm looking for another target".

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#5 - 2012-01-14 11:18:18 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
So just make your POS as annoying as possible to shoot at. Hardeners for good resists (especially EM/therm for afk laser boats). As much ECM as will fit, so they have to keep locking the tower. At least one warp scram and if possible web, so once they warp to the tower they are stuck there. And a token gun or two to force them to fit a tank.


Fit no modules outside the shield. When they shoot the POS, immediately join the DecShield alliance. They will have no way to kite the aggro while you become undecced, so your POS comes out of RF safely undecced for you to rep and restront.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#6 - 2012-01-14 11:33:22 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Fit no modules outside the shield. When they shoot the POS, immediately join the DecShield alliance. They will have no way to kite the aggro while you become undecced, so your POS comes out of RF safely undecced for you to rep and restront.

Good point. But that will still get you decced more often than not. The point of the annoying setup is to avoid wars.

You could fit missile batteries instead of guns. Because they (and the ewar) use CPU, they all will go offline if someone reinforces it. Fill the bay with stront, and there's no way they can keep aggro for the entire reinforcement period.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2012-01-14 13:35:28 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jack Dant wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Fit no modules outside the shield. When they shoot the POS, immediately join the DecShield alliance. They will have no way to kite the aggro while you become undecced, so your POS comes out of RF safely undecced for you to rep and restront.

Good point. But that will still get you decced more often than not. The point of the annoying setup is to avoid wars.

You could fit missile batteries instead of guns. Because they (and the ewar) use CPU, they all will go offline if someone reinforces it. Fill the bay with stront, and there's no way they can keep aggro for the entire reinforcement period.


If there is something outside the shield, the attacker can keep an aggro timer by shooting at that something. If they can keep an aggro timer, then you need to time your decshielding such that there is a downtime between dropping out of alliance and your POS coming out of RF.

Much simpler to sidestep the issue, toss a few EM/Therm hardeners (make them pay for being able to AFK) inside and call it a day. Maybe even name the tower "I know about DecShield Alliance" as a wardec preventative measure.

BTW I live in null. How did I end up knowing more about abusing Hisec wardec mechanics than so many Hiseccers?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#8 - 2012-01-14 14:53:17 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
If there is something outside the shield, the attacker can keep an aggro timer by shooting at that something. If they can keep an aggro timer, then you need to time your decshielding such that there is a downtime between dropping out of alliance and your POS coming out of RF.

Good point, for a moment I thought the POS had to shoot back, but that's only to aggro neutral reppers. Still, you have 24 hours of warning before the war starts, and 1d 17h of stront in the tower. It should be enough.

Quote:
Much simpler to sidestep the issue, toss a few EM/Therm hardeners (make them pay for being able to AFK) inside and call it a day. Maybe even name the tower "I know about DecShield Alliance" as a wardec preventative measure.

Honestly, I'd rather avoid wardecs altogether with an annoying POS. Matter of preference, of course.

Quote:
BTW I live in null. How did I end up knowing more about abusing Hisec wardec mechanics than so many Hiseccers?

That one is easy. Most highseccers have no clue about wardec mechanics at all.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-01-14 15:39:52 UTC
If I had assembly arrays at the tower would this be enough to discourage a dec?

Fitting information for Tower 5 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.

Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Corporate Hangar Array (Online)
Explosion Dampening Array (Online)
Heat Dissipation Array (Online)
Heat Dissipation Array (Online)
Heat Dissipation Array (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Ion Field Projection Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Medium Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Phase Inversion Battery (Online)
Photon Scattering Array (Online)
Photon Scattering Array (Online)
Photon Scattering Array (Online)
Small Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Small Pulse Laser Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Spatial Destabilization Battery (Online)
Stasis Webification Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Disruption Battery (Online)
Warp Scrambling Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
White Noise Generation Battery (Online)
CPU Usage: 4440 / 5500 (80.73%)
PG Usage: 4407500 / 5000000 (88.15%)
Fitting generated using My POS by Cassandra's Light.

(According to the battleclinic citadel torps can do some damage against stationary AFKers)
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#10 - 2012-01-14 16:18:16 UTC
Yes. Anyone wanting to take that down better be prepared to spend many billions in mercs.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2012-01-14 17:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jas Dor wrote:
If I had assembly arrays at the tower would this be enough to discourage a dec?

Fitting information for Tower 5 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.

Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)

Look at the info on POS missile batteries, specifically rate of fire and damage multiplier, then you will understand why they are a complete joke when compared to turrets. Never use missiles on a POS. If you can't fit turrets (lasers on Amarr towers and projectiles on all others), use more EWAR.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-01-14 18:13:08 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
If I had assembly arrays at the tower would this be enough to discourage a dec?

Fitting information for Tower 5 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.

Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)

Look at the info on POS missile batteries, specifically rate of fire and damage multiplier, then you will understand why they are a complete joke when compared to turrets. Never use missiles on a POS. If you can't fit turrets (lasers on Amarr towers and projectiles on all others), use more EWAR.


Actually citadel torps do about 230dps at around 300km. Not great but better than arties and about half the PG of medium beams. Also allows you to change up damage types.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-01-14 18:43:41 UTC
Quote:
BTW I live in null. How did I end up knowing more about abusing Hisec wardec mechanics than so many Hiseccers?


Hmmmm............ most players live on earth.
Those living in null / WH etc. are complete wako. It's a game! You cannot live in a game!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2012-01-15 00:08:14 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
If I had assembly arrays at the tower would this be enough to discourage a dec?

Fitting information for Tower 5 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.

Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)

Look at the info on POS missile batteries, specifically rate of fire and damage multiplier, then you will understand why they are a complete joke when compared to turrets. Never use missiles on a POS. If you can't fit turrets (lasers on Amarr towers and projectiles on all others), use more EWAR.


Actually citadel torps do about 230dps at around 300km. Not great but better than arties and about half the PG of medium beams. Also allows you to change up damage types.


230dps against a Dread in Siege or other capital who's sitting still.

Big missiles don't do damage against small targets.

If you're going to go on the offensive method of keeping your POS alive, just go 100% EWAR. Unless you have POS gunners, guns are fairly useless, and even then, without a defensive fleet, eh.

People in Nullsec don't use 100% EWAR setups because Supers and Sieged Dreads are immune to EWAR.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#15 - 2012-01-15 00:08:59 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Quote:
BTW I live in null. How did I end up knowing more about abusing Hisec wardec mechanics than so many Hiseccers?


Hmmmm............ most players live on earth.
Those living in null / WH etc. are complete wako. It's a game! You cannot live in a game!


Cool story bro.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Lady Bloodsucker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-01-15 07:47:33 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Quote:
BTW I live in null. How did I end up knowing more about abusing Hisec wardec mechanics than so many Hiseccers?


Hmmmm............ most players live on earth.
Those living in null / WH etc. are complete wako. It's a game! You cannot live in a game!





REALLY LOL LolLolLol

The Hunger
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-01-15 22:06:41 UTC
A small tower in the back end of no-where owned by a one-man corp is about as safe as can be.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-01-15 22:17:37 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
If I had assembly arrays at the tower would this be enough to discourage a dec?

Fitting information for Tower 5 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.

Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)

Look at the info on POS missile batteries, specifically rate of fire and damage multiplier, then you will understand why they are a complete joke when compared to turrets. Never use missiles on a POS. If you can't fit turrets (lasers on Amarr towers and projectiles on all others), use more EWAR.


Actually citadel torps do about 230dps at around 300km. Not great but better than arties and about half the PG of medium beams. Also allows you to change up damage types.


230dps against a Dread in Siege or other capital who's sitting still.

Big missiles don't do damage against small targets.

If you're going to go on the offensive method of keeping your POS alive, just go 100% EWAR. Unless you have POS gunners, guns are fairly useless, and even then, without a defensive fleet, eh.

People in Nullsec don't use 100% EWAR setups because Supers and Sieged Dreads are immune to EWAR.


Is battleclinics math wrong? http://eve.battleclinic.com/calculators.php?calculator=missile&explosionRadius=2000&mTargetSigRadius=400&targetVelocity=175&explosionVelocity=30&missileDamage=6000&mTargetResistance=0
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#19 - 2012-01-15 23:17:41 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
If I had assembly arrays at the tower would this be enough to discourage a dec?

Fitting information for Tower 5 (Amarr Control Tower) at a location not specified.

Structure (Status)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Ballistic Deflection Array (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)
Citadel Torpedo Battery (Online)

Look at the info on POS missile batteries, specifically rate of fire and damage multiplier, then you will understand why they are a complete joke when compared to turrets. Never use missiles on a POS. If you can't fit turrets (lasers on Amarr towers and projectiles on all others), use more EWAR.


Actually citadel torps do about 230dps at around 300km. Not great but better than arties and about half the PG of medium beams. Also allows you to change up damage types.


230dps against a Dread in Siege or other capital who's sitting still.

Big missiles don't do damage against small targets.

If you're going to go on the offensive method of keeping your POS alive, just go 100% EWAR. Unless you have POS gunners, guns are fairly useless, and even then, without a defensive fleet, eh.

People in Nullsec don't use 100% EWAR setups because Supers and Sieged Dreads are immune to EWAR.


Is battleclinics math wrong? http://eve.battleclinic.com/calculators.php?calculator=missile&explosionRadius=2000&mTargetSigRadius=400&targetVelocity=175&explosionVelocity=30&missileDamage=6000&mTargetResistance=0



Dunno, but a Leviathon (which gets some nice DPS bonuses) applies 158 of its 8234 dps (5 BC2, 6 Citadel Torp launchers) to a target moving 180m/s(~Drake) with a sig of 230 (~Drake). Against a Stealth Bomber, it applies 30 DPS. And this is before resistances.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-01-16 01:43:46 UTC
Quote:


Dunno, but a Leviathon (which gets some nice DPS bonuses) applies 158 of its 8234 dps (5 BC2, 6 Citadel Torp launchers) to a target moving 180m/s(~Drake) with a sig of 230 (~Drake). Against a Stealth Bomber, it applies 30 DPS. And this is before resistances.


You sound like you have experience with what you're talking about. Maybe the battleclinic calculator is bugged? Can somebody who understands the math run the numbers?
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