These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

war declaration
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Thorin Kendishy
G0LD RUSH
#1 - 2016-05-15 17:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorin Kendishy
Beitrag in Deutsch

translated by Sascha Wolfenbach

Hello all,

first, this proposal is not subject of change for the declaration of war.
Instead, its should bring balance in case of unfair distribution.

Currently it doesn't matter who declares war against who, 200 members vs. 10 members etc.
The costs on corporation level for the 200 stay the same at 50mil ISK and vice versa!

Everyone can assume that a corp with 10 members is not in the position to defend itself or i.e. a POS.

I wouldn't change anything here in the future, but instead the war declaration costs.

Idea:
Basic cost stays with 50mil with coporations, 500mil ISK with alliances.
When a corp with 100 members declares war on another corp with 100 members, costs stay at 50mil.

If a corp with 120 members declares war on a corp with 100 members, costs will increase to 70mil ISK.
Every additional member increases the cost by 1mil ISK.

When the difference increases to 1,5-times to 1, the cost will increase to 2mil ISK per head.

150 vs 100: 50 mil + 2mil*50 Player = 150 mil ISK.

Factor idea:

OLD
from
1,5 at 2,49 = 2
2,5 at 3,49 = 4
3,5 at 4,49 = 8
4,5 at 5,49 = 16
and so on...


NEW
from
1,5 at 2,49 = 2
2,5 at 3,49 = 4
3,5 at 4,49 = 8
4,5 at 5,49 = 16
5,5 at ∞ =32

Example:
100 Member corp declares war on 14 Member corp

100/14 = 7,14 -> The factor is 64
100/14 = 7,14 -> The factor is 32

Basic = 50mil
Factor cost per Player 64 mil ISK
Factor cost per Player 32 mil ISK
Player difference corp: 86

End cost: 50 + 86*64 = 5554mil ISK
End cost: 50 + 86*32 = 2802mil ISK (2,8b ISK)

This cost should be a burden for the war declaring side.
Most commonly only the smaller corp is losing a bit. The risk on the attackers side is nealy zero.

Conversely the cost stays at 50mil ISK.

A war involving several corps against one corp, only the base value inceases.

Example:
3 corps with a size of 60 members declares war on a single 50 member corp.

corp 1 cost within the first week is 60 mil ISK.
Corp 2 = 110mil ISK
Corp 3 = 210mil ISK

In the second week the cost for all corps is 210mil ISK. This value does not increase, except an additional corp joins the war.

Ideas & constructive diskussion is much appreciated!

Regards
Thorin
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-05-15 18:41:03 UTC
Please explain why only corps like mine should ever be wardecced.

Please explain why you hate mercenary groups.

Please explain why a highsec group should not be able to remove a smaller rival by force.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3 - 2016-05-15 22:14:11 UTC
The reason CCP gave when they did it is because you get more targets when you dec a bigger corp so you should pay more (since targets are what you are after). Another reason to not do this is that it encourages players to separate eachother rather than form together. Why would you want to encourage players to not form big groups together?

And why should a small corp with a pos be protected by expensive dec fees? Daichi is in a one man corp but is capable of defending himself, pays players to gank other people, wardecs other corps and can put up a mean citadel. Why should it be so expensive to dec me and my citadels just because I'm a one man band? And what if i hire a merc corp to assist in my dec? Now your paying ridiculous prices to dec me, my citadel and face off my allies...

It'd really just be better in every way to make it a flat fee for corp and a flat fee for alliance. It does not influence hiring behaviour of either side and ignores assets, allies and how much of a meany people are...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-05-15 22:17:38 UTC
this just encourages groups on boths sides to stay small and never grow


-1

there are some good ideas out there to fix this war dec system that needs help on both ends but this is not one of them

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#5 - 2016-05-15 22:49:49 UTC
Consider this as well,

Say im in a 200 man corp, but it consists of mostly industry characters and players who can only play once every two weeks. These are my friends so i don't want to kick em out of corp. Then say another corp comes up on our turf, say 20 players, and starts eating up all the belts in the area. They are a smaller corp but they are much more active and are not only experienced industrial players but avid and active PVPers. We can both muster forces of similar size because of differences in activity, but because of their skill we'd be out matched in most fights.

Why should it be so much more expensive for the larger corp to dec the smaller corp compared to the other way round?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort
#6 - 2016-05-16 01:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Trespasser
am i reading that right? 5.5 billion to declare war on a smaller corp if your a larger one?


No, Its a risk you take when you put something up.. the more you risk the more you can be rewarded but the more someone else bigger then you can take away.


Also Corporate member count is also not indicative of anything, i have seen 30 member corps will more activity then 300 member corps and vice versa.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#7 - 2016-05-16 09:38:50 UTC
encourages solo play -1

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2016-05-16 10:42:06 UTC
Thorin Kendishy wrote:

Everyone can assume that a corp with 10 members is not in the position to defend itself or i.e. a POS.

nonsense ,
our alliance only usually has between 5 and 10 people online and we are more than capable of
1) defending ourselves
2) defending our sister alliance
3) beating the ever living **** out of several much larger entities (including other merc alliances) whilst doing the above.

cost is a burden for the declaring side.

The risk on the attackers side is nearly zero because no one could be arsed defending themselves,
with the Allie system we can go from a position of strength to one of vulnerability in the space of 4 hours ,
not the 24 the defender gets to sort their **** out , 4 , at zero cost.

i agree the current system is bullshite, but this does not fix any of the current issues, it just neatens them up on paper.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#9 - 2016-05-16 10:45:23 UTC
Its amazing the magic that comes from a group of 5-10 people who are organised against a group of 60+ un-organised people.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Thorin Kendishy
G0LD RUSH
#10 - 2016-05-16 17:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorin Kendishy
The above proposal was not set in stone ... will only be the kick to new ideas.
Although I here could see the idea.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
The reason CCP gave when they did it is because you get more targets when you dec a bigger corp so you should pay more (since targets are what you are after). Another reason to not do this is that it encourages players to separate eachother rather than form together. Why would you want to encourage players to not form big groups together?

And why should a small corp with a pos be protected by expensive dec fees? Daichi is in a one man corp but is capable of defending himself, pays players to gank other people, wardecs other corps and can put up a mean citadel. Why should it be so expensive to dec me and my citadels just because I'm a one man band? And what if i hire a merc corp to assist in my dec? Now your paying ridiculous prices to dec me, my citadel and face off my allies...

It'd really just be better in every way to make it a flat fee for corp and a flat fee for alliance. It does not influence hiring behaviour of either side and ignores assets, allies and how much of a meany people are...


1.I dont want to prevent the establishment of bigger corps, but to find a fair solution.
Im open for any idea!

2. The membership figure of non – PvP – Corp's (e.g Idustrial) are usually far smaller as the of PvP – Corp's. The risk lies by the smaller Corp's which has to invest billions, while the investment of the Strike force is small or zero without proper defense. There is a lack in self-defense power of the Citadel which should alone be a high risk for smaller strike forces.

3. There is a lack in good mercenaries Corp's or we couldn't find them.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
Consider this as well,

Say im in a 200 man corp, but it consists of mostly industry characters and players who can only play once every two weeks. These are my friends so i don't want to kick em out of corp. Then say another corp comes up on our turf, say 20 players, and starts eating up all the belts in the area. They are a smaller corp but they are much more active and are not only experienced industrial players but avid and active PVPers. We can both muster forces of similar size because of differences in activity, but because of their skill we'd be out matched in most fights.

Why should it be so much more expensive for the larger corp to dec the smaller corp compared to the other way round?


Maybe the overall activity of a Corp should be included as well. For my Corp the cost for war dec grows with the size of the emeny corp!

Trespasser wrote:
am i reading that right? 5.5 billion to declare war on a smaller corp if your a larger one?


max. factor in 32 set?! The disclosures are not fixed!




Trespasser wrote:

Also Corporate member count is also not indicative of anything, i have seen 30 member corps will more activity then 300 member corps and vice versa.


Lan Wang wrote:
Its amazing the magic that comes from a group of 5-10 people who are organised against a group of 60+ un-organised people.


These are exceptions, the average is 25% to 33% for activity Corp size.


Have top made slight adjustments.


grettings
Thorin
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2016-05-16 22:42:39 UTC
under war conditions its more like 10-15%

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-05-17 23:13:11 UTC
lol if you couldn't find any good merc corps you didn't look hard enough

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#13 - 2016-05-18 02:56:31 UTC
As a merc, biomass.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.