These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Attention CCP: Find a way to bring back Tony Gonzales

Author
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-01-13 17:57:29 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Nah, it is obviously because the Gallente is too much like the Bush administration.

Shocked Now I suppose mandatory that I read this book...! Though I feel a bit quesy at the thought of reliving something like the Bush admin in sci-fi format.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-01-13 18:29:49 UTC
Quote:
Jamyl Sarum for example, is portrayed as a tool of Falek Grange/ the Other.
Dr. Gable, is ofc taken prisoner and bundled about (on more than one occasion).
Mens Reppola's daughter is an Objective that he is seeking to defend, and others are seeking to use against him.
The assassin Thanatos, is debatable if she counts as human or not, but in any case is a tool.


Let's see;

Vince himself is a tool for the Amarrians and a MacGuffin for everyone else for the entirety of the book.
Marcus serves no purpose other than to be told the Jove/Sleeper backstory by Grious, before being brutally killed.
Foritian has a minor role, but basically only exists to tell Jacus about the immortality tech and has no ambition of his own.
Miles is a babbling, romantically hopeless fool who lacks so much self-esteem with himself that he makes up stories about what he does while on shore leave to impress his crew.
Mens can't seem to accomplish anything by himself and has to run over to Mila whenever he has a problem.

This phenomenon is hardly limited to female characters, and seems much more like "everyone is weak willed because New Eden is a crapsack galaxy" than "Tony Gonzales portrayes females badly."

Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
F O R M I C I D A E
#43 - 2012-01-13 18:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Haseo Antares
Telegram Sam wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Nah, it is obviously because the Gallente is too much like the Bush administration.

Shocked Now I suppose mandatory that I read this book...! Though I feel a bit quesy at the thought of reliving something like the Bush admin in sci-fi format.


The "Bush" of Templar One was far more shrewd the the real life one...I hardly saw any similarities between the Gallente President & "the W". Unless Mr. Jowen was referring to the elder Bush...even then the Gallente federation appeared to be far more socialistic then the United States ever was. I'll try not to say to much but the book states that there is no unemployment in the Gallente Federatiion. I don't know very much about politics or politicians but that was my take on it.

Edit: Socialistic probably wasn't the best word to use...but i only know so many words and i gotta get to class lol....

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.

Senn Typhos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-01-13 22:17:33 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Most of the things in this review can just be discarded. The author of the review uses the fact that he does not like how certain characters and events are portrayed, so he contructs a "this is abusing the PF" argument out of it.

Obviously a lot of things are unexplained in the book and I think these loose ends are there for a reason, because these gaps can be filled by other stories and events. The basic complaint in the review seems to be, that EVE is not star wars, for example we did not know how and why grand admiral Eturrer came to be a pawn to the broker and a traitor, if this would be star wars I have no doubt that he would at least have his own book trilogy by now, explaining everything in detail.


I'll shorten the argument for you.

No one cares that we aren't handed all the answers by Tony G.

We're angry because despite demonstrating that he has no concern for maintaining the basic tenants of EVE fiction, let alone ruining any potential for meaningful, interesting developments, Tony G was allowed to write two books for our universe.

Get it?
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#45 - 2012-01-14 10:56:45 UTC
Senn Typhos wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Most of the things in this review can just be discarded. The author of the review uses the fact that he does not like how certain characters and events are portrayed, so he contructs a "this is abusing the PF" argument out of it.

Obviously a lot of things are unexplained in the book and I think these loose ends are there for a reason, because these gaps can be filled by other stories and events. The basic complaint in the review seems to be, that EVE is not star wars, for example we did not know how and why grand admiral Eturrer came to be a pawn to the broker and a traitor, if this would be star wars I have no doubt that he would at least have his own book trilogy by now, explaining everything in detail.


I'll shorten the argument for you.

No one cares that we aren't handed all the answers by Tony G.

We're angry because despite demonstrating that he has no concern for maintaining the basic tenants of EVE fiction, let alone ruining any potential for meaningful, interesting developments, Tony G was allowed to write two books for our universe.

Get it?


The basic tenants, are your own opinions on how EVE fiction should be written, nothing else, at least that was clear from the review and the angry postings in this thread.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Yazus Kor
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-01-14 11:02:34 UTC
Funnily enough, the basic tenants are based on what we've previously been provided with.
Senn Typhos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-01-14 11:31:22 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Senn Typhos wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Most of the things in this review can just be discarded. The author of the review uses the fact that he does not like how certain characters and events are portrayed, so he contructs a "this is abusing the PF" argument out of it.

Obviously a lot of things are unexplained in the book and I think these loose ends are there for a reason, because these gaps can be filled by other stories and events. The basic complaint in the review seems to be, that EVE is not star wars, for example we did not know how and why grand admiral Eturrer came to be a pawn to the broker and a traitor, if this would be star wars I have no doubt that he would at least have his own book trilogy by now, explaining everything in detail.


I'll shorten the argument for you.

No one cares that we aren't handed all the answers by Tony G.

We're angry because despite demonstrating that he has no concern for maintaining the basic tenants of EVE fiction, let alone ruining any potential for meaningful, interesting developments, Tony G was allowed to write two books for our universe.

Get it?


The basic tenants, are your own opinions on how EVE fiction should be written, nothing else, at least that was clear from the review and the angry postings in this thread.



Woman, are you kidding me?

He didn't get the timeline right, and that's on the evelopedia site.

That's not "my opinion," that's a basic fact about the fictional universe Tony G is supposed to be writing for. If he can't follow such a simple facet of canon - hell, it's a NUMBER and he got it wrong - do you really think anyone will respect his "brilliant" expositions on complex matters of political and social interaction?

Do you even read these replies or do you just let words fall out of your head? Just say "apple" if you even reach the end of this post.
Shirley Serious
Gutter Press
#48 - 2012-01-14 12:36:36 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
This phenomenon is hardly limited to female characters, and seems much more like "everyone is weak willed because New Eden is a crapsack galaxy" than "Tony Gonzales portrayes females badly."


There are several male characters who are easily manipulated, yes. However there are several more male characters who have a grip on things.

The characters I referred to in my previous post, were the main female characters. All of them are objectives to be defended and/or easily manipulated tools.


Referring back to the Empyrean age, there is more of this, such as:

Grand Admiral Kasora Neko (Minmatar Fleet) who is portrayed as ineffectual, unable to maintain any form of command over the fleet.
Karin Midular (Republic Prime minister) who is portrayed as whining, ineffectual, a moody girl that throws tantrums, is beaten and raped, then "learns her place" and is submissive thereafter.
Ariel Orviegnoure (Federation Intelligence senior officer) who is repeatedly interrupted, ineffective.
Yana Marakova (Federation Navy) who is a capsuleer, is initially rather condescending towards Korvin the male Fed Navy pilot, she is podded, loses SP and is unable to fly, is submissive afterwards.
Camoul Hinda (court chamberlain advisor) who tells Karsoth he's screwing it all up, ends up beaten and turned into a drugged sex slave.
unnamed Gallentean women on Caldari Prime, mentioned as being out shopping for exotic underwear, hundreds/thousands of them are killed in the Caldari invasion.


Now then, in what kind of world do such ineffective individuals become head of such organisations ?

How does someone become Grand Admiral of the Fleet without having any more ability to command than an officer cadet ?
How does someone become Prime Minister when being a tantrum throwing whining little girl ?
Why would you summon the chief intelligence officer, and then never let them say anything ? How did they become the chief anyway when they are that ineffective ?

Why is it necessary to write that various women are beaten then are submissive afterwards ? Why specifically mention that many of the casualties of the invasion of Caldari prime were women shopping for underwear ?


It just looks as if the books were written to appeal to that particular brand of internet "humour", such as the "what do you say to a woman with two black eyes? Nothing you already told her twice." sort of jokes.

Just the facts.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-01-14 12:44:59 UTC
Tony G writes a Star Wars book: "In a galaxy not far away..."

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#50 - 2012-01-14 13:40:28 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Tony G writes a Star Wars book: "In a galaxy not far away..."

"In the near future..."
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#51 - 2012-01-16 01:14:19 UTC
Shirley Serious wrote:
Words.


From a meta-ideology POV this was a pretty darn good post and says a lot about dominant modes of modern-day ideology seeping into EVE novels.
Myyona
Ataraxia Pharmacies
#52 - 2012-01-16 08:04:42 UTC
Shirley Serious wrote:
Spot on

/semi RP-mode on
I run a humanitarian orientated corporation.

If I ever encounter the Minmatar Elders I am going to choke them to death with my bare hands for what they did to Midular.
/semi RP-mode off

Tony G never managed to portrait any of the strong women of EVE fiction as actual strong. Instead they end up in some subdued position often involving sex.

Jamyl Sarum could have been cool as Darth Vader. Except Vader did not do drugs or flaunted off sexual deviancies.

CEO - Ataraxia Pharmacies Personal Biography

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#53 - 2012-01-16 12:00:06 UTC
Senn Typhos wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Senn Typhos wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Most of the things in this review can just be discarded. The author of the review uses the fact that he does not like how certain characters and events are portrayed, so he contructs a "this is abusing the PF" argument out of it.

Obviously a lot of things are unexplained in the book and I think these loose ends are there for a reason, because these gaps can be filled by other stories and events. The basic complaint in the review seems to be, that EVE is not star wars, for example we did not know how and why grand admiral Eturrer came to be a pawn to the broker and a traitor, if this would be star wars I have no doubt that he would at least have his own book trilogy by now, explaining everything in detail.


I'll shorten the argument for you.

No one cares that we aren't handed all the answers by Tony G.

We're angry because despite demonstrating that he has no concern for maintaining the basic tenants of EVE fiction, let alone ruining any potential for meaningful, interesting developments, Tony G was allowed to write two books for our universe.

Get it?


The basic tenants, are your own opinions on how EVE fiction should be written, nothing else, at least that was clear from the review and the angry postings in this thread.



Woman, are you kidding me?

He didn't get the timeline right, and that's on the evelopedia site.

That's not "my opinion," that's a basic fact about the fictional universe Tony G is supposed to be writing for. If he can't follow such a simple facet of canon - hell, it's a NUMBER and he got it wrong - do you really think anyone will respect his "brilliant" expositions on complex matters of political and social interaction?

Do you even read these replies or do you just let words fall out of your head? Just say "apple" if you even reach the end of this post.


The timeline was really messed up at the time of TonyGs writing and in desperate need of rework. For example the timeline for the khanid did not match the information about the Amarr and the Sansha timeline was completely disjointed from what was happening in other parts of New Eden.

I am not saying that the timeline should be completely ignored but I can ignore smaller continuity errors, especially because I know how flawed the first timeline was. Empyrean Age is no masterpiece like the Hyperion-Cantos, but it was certainly a good read and it fit the EVE universe better then the Burning Life.

That being said it EA was not without flaws, yes some continuity errors, some deus ex machine events and lots of things that were unresolved, but I think a lot people would be more forgiving to the book, if RP news, articles etc following the release of the book had helped to resolve the unexplained events, instead they raised only more questions by tieing the terran superweapon to the event of wormhole openings.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Senn Typhos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-01-16 18:24:41 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Senn Typhos wrote:


Do you even read these replies or do you just let words fall out of your head? Just say "apple" if you even reach the end of this post.


The timeline was really messed up at the time of TonyGs writing and in desperate need of rework. For example the timeline for the khanid did not match the information about the Amarr and the Sansha timeline was completely disjointed from what was happening in other parts of New Eden.

I am not saying that the timeline should be completely ignored but I can ignore smaller continuity errors, especially because I know how flawed the first timeline was. Empyrean Age is no masterpiece like the Hyperion-Cantos, but it was certainly a good read and it fit the EVE universe better then the Burning Life.

That being said it EA was not without flaws, yes some continuity errors, some deus ex machine events and lots of things that were unresolved, but I think a lot people would be more forgiving to the book, if RP news, articles etc following the release of the book had helped to resolve the unexplained events, instead they raised only more questions by tieing the terran superweapon to the event of wormhole openings.


Busted.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#55 - 2012-01-16 18:45:28 UTC
Senn Typhos wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Senn Typhos wrote:


Do you even read these replies or do you just let words fall out of your head? Just say "apple" if you even reach the end of this post.


The timeline was really messed up at the time of TonyGs writing and in desperate need of rework. For example the timeline for the khanid did not match the information about the Amarr and the Sansha timeline was completely disjointed from what was happening in other parts of New Eden.

I am not saying that the timeline should be completely ignored but I can ignore smaller continuity errors, especially because I know how flawed the first timeline was. Empyrean Age is no masterpiece like the Hyperion-Cantos, but it was certainly a good read and it fit the EVE universe better then the Burning Life.

That being said it EA was not without flaws, yes some continuity errors, some deus ex machine events and lots of things that were unresolved, but I think a lot people would be more forgiving to the book, if RP news, articles etc following the release of the book had helped to resolve the unexplained events, instead they raised only more questions by tieing the terran superweapon to the event of wormhole openings.


Busted.


Nope, he did a good job, but I have a different opinion on what qualifies as a good job.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
#56 - 2012-01-16 20:10:07 UTC
Senn Typhos wrote:

Do you even read these replies or do you just let words fall out of your head? Just say "apple" if you even reach the end of this post.


Senn Typhos wrote:

Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Post

Busted


This thread delivers.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-01-16 20:34:24 UTC
It certainly does.

Apparently there is a good reason why Miss. Sevidon's posting is on my "ignore" list. I had just forgotten why.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#58 - 2012-01-16 21:46:22 UTC
This brings something else to mind,

A fast and easy way to "fact-check" with existing PF for these novels and prevent some inconsistancy issues would be to release tiny snippets to us, the PF forum nerds. Crowdsource your fact-checking in other words.

IE if a paragraph is talking about dates, names, and places, shoot it out of context to the forums, and I do believe it would quickly be validated or not.

Obviously opinions on -content- will vary and can be ignored, but names, dates, concepts, etc could be corrected well in advance.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#59 - 2012-01-16 22:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviana Sevidon
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It certainly does.

Apparently there is a good reason why Miss. Sevidon's posting is on my "ignore" list. I had just forgotten why.


If you can't accept other opinions, then feel free to put me on your ignore list. As a matter of fact it speaks volumes about your character, or in this particular example for the 'quality' of your so called lorebook.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Yazus Kor
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-01-16 22:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Yazus Kor
Only a matter of time until those who cannot back their arguments start launching Ad Hominem attacks against everyone else, how predictable.