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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

First post
Author
Sky Marshal
Core Industry.
Blades of Grass
#21 - 2016-05-11 23:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
Keebler Wizard wrote:


Levels of detail toggles are fine, but turning on and off major graphical effects would change the game experience too much. Where does it end? Im going to agree with the better monitor crowd, or adjust your GPU settings to lower the brightness that way.

Do you realize that you are contradictory ? Try to set the shaders at minimum, you will see that it turns off major graphics effects (dust and damage on ships, adverts in station don't work, etc.) but the jump animation or this bubble of light would be a no-go because it would hurt the game experience too much ?

There is one option for ship explosions, something you don't encounter all the time depending of your choices in the game. A stargate, we encounter it all the time. That doesn't make any sense.

This is something who can cost customers. I trashed Tropico 5 because there is no options to remove the blur effect applied on the game area after you zoomed out just a bit (and really just a bit). Sorry but I don't have "eyes blur adaptation off" option in my head and I was feeling bad after only 30 minutes of gaming (all hail free week-ends) and the devs don't care... If only Eve wasn't Eve, I would have left.

We are not all fully-able players nor we don't have the same computers, this is why there are options for that. It is impossible to give the same game experience to everyone but it seems that CCP don't care anymore and want to try anyway (RGB sliders, Load Station Environment, etc.). I hope they will come back to their senses one day...

The brightness is not a way to correct the problem, it will just attenuate it a bit at the cost of more UI unpracticalness. Cover the center of the screen as I do now remains the most efficient method.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-05-12 07:49:01 UTC
Only in EvE would a request for more customisation of the UI / appearance be taken as a bad thing. Honestly what is to be lost by letting people turn on or off things that bother them? Who does it effect apart from the guy who turns off "stargate animations"?

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Aiwha
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#23 - 2016-05-12 13:49:07 UTC
It still drives me nuts.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2016-05-12 14:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Only in EvE would a request for more customisation of the UI / appearance be taken as a bad thing. Honestly what is to be lost by letting people turn on or off things that bother them? Who does it effect apart from the guy who turns off "stargate animations"?

Offering toggles for various graphic effects raises a bunch of issues, from ensuring that the controls are named in a way that communicates what they're doing, to requiring regression testing at every release to make sure that the controls work in increasing numbers of combinations with each other, to managing the complexity of a UI window overloaded with obscure settings. These types of controls make a lot of work for us and don't usually add much value to the game.

Contrary to what you imply, Eve has historically had a lot more of these types of settings than most other games, and it's much more likely that we'll be streamlining and removing individual toggles like this in the future rather than adding them. In many instances, it will make sense to group functionality together under a single, simplified control. In other cases, you may see certain toggles going away entirely.

Generally, unless there's a really rock-solid gameplay justification, we're unlikely to add switches to control individual graphic effects.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#25 - 2016-05-12 17:26:53 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
........
Generally, unless there's a really rock-solid gameplay justification, we're unlikely to add switches to control individual graphic effects.



CCP Darwin: Read and understood. Now, could you please explain to us why players getting motion sickness to the point that they cannot play the game is NOT a rock-solid gameplay justification?

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Ranzabar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-05-12 18:06:25 UTC
Zeko Rena wrote:
Ranzabar wrote:
I agree. After all, we normally watch ourselves tool around in space from a third-person perspective. Why that should change when you jump is beyond me. I don't like it at all.

it's inconsistent with the normal gameplay visual perspective.


Because your little camera drone must dock with your ship during jumps, otherwise it will get left behind!


So thats why! Gee, it all makes sense now Roll

Abide

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2016-05-12 18:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Darwin: Read and understood. Now, could you please explain to us why players getting motion sickness to the point that they cannot play the game is NOT a rock-solid gameplay justification?

If we received a substantial amount of feedback about motion sickness in relation to the jump animation, that would certainly affect our priority for taking another look at it. (And yes, I have taken note that a couple of people in this thread have commented on motion sickness difficulties with the animation.)

That said, there are a lot of factors involved in moving images inducing motion sickness or not, many of them involving viewing conditions. Sitting farther from the monitor or changing room lighting may help, and I recommend giving those a try to see if they improve things for you.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#28 - 2016-05-12 21:41:26 UTC
Actually I personally have no issue. I just have concern for my fellow players. (Also, the jump animation is presently broken for the Mac under the new Wine wrapper.)

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Marsha Mallow
#29 - 2016-05-12 21:43:19 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Darwin: Read and understood. Now, could you please explain to us why players getting motion sickness to the point that they cannot play the game is NOT a rock-solid gameplay justification?

If we received a substantial amount of feedback about motion sickness in relation to the jump animation, that would certainly affect our priority for taking another look at it. (And yes, I have taken note that a couple of people in this thread have commented on motion sickness difficulties with the animation.)

That said, there are a lot of factors involved in moving images inducing motion sickness or not, many of them involving viewing conditions. Sitting farther from the monitor or changing room lighting may help, and I recommend giving those a try to see if they improve things for you.

97 pages of feedback here. That's reasonably substantial. We could do without the people who aren't affected hopping about in outrage because they think we're whinging. I do try to give constructive feedback without lapsing into tantruming, but it's a bit difficult to keep your cool when you have random forumites screeching WELL IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME AND WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING AND OMG IF THEY CAVE ON THIS THAT'S IT THE END IS NIGH. Erm, ye calm down and wind your necks in.

But yes, I have adjusted settings and monitor/lighting and it does tone down the effect. If you suffer from this really badly, the only option is to glance away when the effect hits. Or turn them all off, which is a shame. It's not a great idea on a combat alt to do this, but I certainly have. This isn't a great pitch to new players who remark on the problem either.

Oddly when I watched the Valk vids was expecting vom inducing nausea - which was there for a minute or so (as when you get on a boat and adjust) but passed surprisingly quickly. Problem with jumping is it's a sporadic activity you don't get time to get your 'sea legs' adjusted to if that makes sense. So it's just as annoying the 50th time as the first.

There's a correlation between motion sickness/migraine btw - and I'm a bit surprised the idea that some ingame effects might cause issues for people with these symptoms has never popped up? But then again, the treatment of colour blind players borders on shameful. I think you need to filter the noise out here from unaffected players and treat these things with reasonable consideration - or slap a health warning on the launcher.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
#30 - 2016-05-12 21:49:48 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

CCP Darwin: Read and understood. Now, could you please explain to us why players getting motion sickness to the point that they cannot play the game is NOT a rock-solid gameplay justification?


In this case might I suggest the use of the toggle you were born with?
If certain signals from your optical system are overloading your neural network then using the external shutters at the appropriate (and predictable) time could mitigate the fault.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-05-12 22:20:50 UTC
People fail to understand that a dozen or even a hundred people having an issue isn't something to be much of a concern with when there's thousands of people that are fine.

Personally, i always advocate 'more options', my entire RL business revolves around 'more options' for my customers.

But that's just me.

Been around since the beginning.

Circumstantial Evidence
#32 - 2016-05-13 03:06:48 UTC
I would be perfectly happy with a blank screen option during jump transitions. I understand CCP's desire to create a seamless appearance to travelling through space, but I know a little bit about what's going on behind the scenes ;)

The worst part of it for me is the forced camera takeover, if the animation would occur 3rd person similar to an in-system warp (with a different color scheme) I think folks would have much less problem with it.

When I'm travelling in highsec, 90% of the time it's with the map view up so I don't have to look at it. CCP please don't take away my F10 jump animation toggle :)
Sky Marshal
Core Industry.
Blades of Grass
#33 - 2016-05-13 12:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
CCP Darwin wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Only in EvE would a request for more customisation of the UI / appearance be taken as a bad thing. Honestly what is to be lost by letting people turn on or off things that bother them? Who does it effect apart from the guy who turns off "stargate animations"?

Offering toggles for various graphic effects raises a bunch of issues, from ensuring that the controls are named in a way that communicates what they're doing, to requiring regression testing at every release to make sure that the controls work in increasing numbers of combinations with each other, to managing the complexity of a UI window overloaded with obscure settings. These types of controls make a lot of work for us and don't usually add much value to the game.

Contrary to what you imply, Eve has historically had a lot more of these types of settings than most other games, and it's much more likely that we'll be streamlining and removing individual toggles like this in the future rather than adding them. In many instances, it will make sense to group functionality together under a single, simplified control. In other cases, you may see certain toggles going away entirely.

Generally, unless there's a really rock-solid gameplay justification, we're unlikely to add switches to control individual graphic effects.

The problem is how define what is a "rock-solid gameplay justification" as it is difficult to make a fully-able person understand the troubles of a "deficient" one. It is impossible too to ask for every suffering players to post here and many players (fully-able or not) are convinced that you don't care of their feedback anyway.

Do CCP have a way to retrieve data about annoyances, visual or other types, of the game ? Surveys or anything ?

I can understand that you doubt players on the forums, as it is a vocal minority and sometimes there can be wrong statements from them. For my case, I did participate to the "remove the new jump animation" call but later I have created a post where I was wondering if it would be more the bubble of light at the middle of any stargate combined to my 27" monitor at this time (bigger than the previous one) who was the real problem. If the monitor is a big one, some effects can become more annoying that previously evaluated.

But still, few months after you added the jump gate animation, logged users graph on eve-offline began to decline and it lasted until recently. Of course, this animation is not the main reason and later you added some gameplay changes who helped too for this decline (medical clone cost, etc.), but it is probably one of many. Frequent change of point of view, this damned bubble of light... They probably have an impact.

About group functionality, if it can help you to maintain the code, why not but I hope that you won't remove some of the remaining features in the process. "Sun is occluded by ships" was a way to avoid the light blinking annoyance, Load Station Environment was a way to reduce overheating GPU risk and consumption, RGB sliders was great to adapt the UI to our color deficiencies and indirectly to adjust his brightness or simply to our tastes (actual themes only offer ONE choice : dark black. If only there was more choices...), etc. Yes, it is difficult to maintain a game this size, but do you really have the tools to evaluate the consequences of an addition or deletion of a feature on the players, and so the "cost in player numbers" ?

As the time passes, EVE is harder to play, but not because of his gameplay. To be honest, I miss EVE as it was in 2011/12. Just for the UI, it was better than today (fully customizable colors, etc.)
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-05-13 18:54:56 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Darwin: Read and understood. Now, could you please explain to us why players getting motion sickness to the point that they cannot play the game is NOT a rock-solid gameplay justification?

If we received a substantial amount of feedback about motion sickness in relation to the jump animation, that would certainly affect our priority for taking another look at it. (And yes, I have taken note that a couple of people in this thread have commented on motion sickness difficulties with the animation.)

That said, there are a lot of factors involved in moving images inducing motion sickness or not, many of them involving viewing conditions. Sitting farther from the monitor or changing room lighting may help, and I recommend giving those a try to see if they improve things for you.


Oh good grief. Wormholes have a jump animation that doesn't have the motion sickness thing people complain about with jump gates. Add a animation for jump gates and add a toggle in the menu (use simplified jump animation "motion sickness").

It's a 1 hour fix.

Yaay!!!!

Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2016-05-13 21:23:55 UTC
just close your eyes for a few seconds after you hit jump. Problem solved.
ChaseTheLasers
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#36 - 2016-05-13 22:29:03 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Darwin: Read and understood. Now, could you please explain to us why players getting motion sickness to the point that they cannot play the game is NOT a rock-solid gameplay justification?

If we received a substantial amount of feedback about motion sickness in relation to the jump animation, that would certainly affect our priority for taking another look at it. (And yes, I have taken note that a couple of people in this thread have commented on motion sickness difficulties with the animation.)

That said, there are a lot of factors involved in moving images inducing motion sickness or not, many of them involving viewing conditions. Sitting farther from the monitor or changing room lighting may help, and I recommend giving those a try to see if they improve things for you.


What would you consider substantial feedback? There is a 97 page thread, with the number one reason to turn off the animation being motion sickness, by far. That's not including many of the likes from people who have not posted.

As a player, it's quite frustrating to see that we are the ones that are expected to kick up a fuss, in numbers, for it to be considered an implementable feature when this is a well known area.

When you consider the percentage of the player base that visit these forums, then how many get motion sickness, then how many would actually make a post and follow up with replies.....you're just not going to get any substantial numbers using this methodology. Knowing there is an issue that many people in your player base are having, you should be investigating this and have the statistics to know if it's an issue that needs to be considered more.

There are so many things that the camera does wrong: Takes control from the player, removes the ship from vision so you effectively get a swap from 3rd person to 1st person, alters the rotation point, and then throws the player into a fast moving tunnel directly from a stationary position, it's a heck of a lot more than environmental factors being a culprit. Certainly when you previously had almost no one on the forum complaining about the issue prior.

I get motion sickness very badly and it's very annoying. When the new crazy jump animation was added, my play time plummeted. Since then it has just got less and less, to the point where I only log in to change skills now and have mostly moved to other games. It has had that much of an impact on me.

But I guess we've already been through this already in the other thread. It's just quite annoying to see the onus being put on us to provide a "substantial amount of feedback"....not defining what this is or how we are to do it, and not telling us what is wrong with the feedback in the thread that is now locked.

Having the ability to turn off camera shake made a massive difference to many of us. This is the same. It's difficult to explain how much motion sickness ruins a game when it strikes, if you don't get it.
Wapu Kashuken
Serenity Rising LLC
#37 - 2016-05-19 03:55:29 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
That said, there are a lot of factors involved in moving images inducing motion sickness or not, many of them involving viewing conditions. Sitting farther from the monitor or changing room lighting may help, and I recommend giving those a try to see if they improve things for you.


I have experienced this too. Never happened prior to the change. Sitting back and/or adjusting lighting doesn't help.

If this is CCP's official recommendation, I recommend not playing Eve.
Adarian Makaan
Owatatsumi
#38 - 2016-05-19 08:44:35 UTC
Am I the only one who didn't notice it had changed?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2016-05-19 11:51:32 UTC
Wapu Kashuken wrote:
I have experienced this too. Never happened prior to the change.

To what change are you referring? You mean the addition of the "new" jump animation as of the Odyssey 1.0 release on June 4th, 2013? Or some other change?

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#40 - 2016-05-19 13:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Some people feel motion sickness playing games. Not only EVE forum is affected by those people. Mainly FPS and driving games are affected.

But if your effect and is imitating a feel of speed, violent turns and such, it will make this person sick.

I recomment playing chess. Or reading this.
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